Lol.

Kind of hard to be behind a guy on the depth chart that can’t even stay on the field. Hamler is an injury prone bust. A waste of a second round pick.

As for the rest, remains to be seen. So far the only one that’s even done anything noteworthy is Sutton and that was just one season. He was terrible last year. Jeudy so far has played more like Judge Judy than the guy who was drafted out of Bama.

And Tim Patrick IS Byron Pringle . . . . . literally. Look at the numbers from last year and compare. Tim just got a few more targets than Byron.

And as far as brokedick Hamler, his best case scenario is to HOPE to stay healthy and to HOPE to be Mecole Hardman and put up the numbers he has.

You guys keep talking about all this offensive talent you have, but not one of them (outside of Sutton for one year) has done ANYTHING noteworthy in the NFL.

So until they show something, it’s all bluster . . . . .

I believe that Wilson makes the Broncos better, how much better is going to be seen. I know that I didn't expect the Chiefs to go from barely making the playoffs to 4 AFC championships in a row and two Super Bowls. Will the same happen for the Broncos? Possibly... Maybe the other teams in the division will now have to concentrate on another opponent and the Chiefs won't be their AFC Championship and Super Bowl.

Because they didnt have a real choice

Until Judge Judy does something he's a bust. But here's the thing he's got a qb now that can match his speed with a deep ball.

For about 20 years, the Chiefs' single season receiving yards record belonged to Derrick Alexander, who had nearly 1400 receiving yards in the year 2000.

His QB? Elvis Grbac. And while Grbac had impressive yardage totals that year compared to the rest of the league, it wasn't anything special by today's standards (under 4200 yards).

And no, it wasn't just a fluke Alexander season. Tony Gonzalez balled out and had 1200 receiving yards as well.

If you're actually talented, and your QB isn't a TOTAL dunce ass Tyler Palko mother****er, you can put up respectable stats that make casual observers of football take notice and go, "Yeah, you've got some NFL talent for sure."

Jeudy has ****ing sucked. Hamler is nothing. He's never been anything. And he never will be. His hope should be one day going to the Buffalo Bills like Isaiah McKenzie and putting up a fluke ass monster game in Week 18. That's basically what Hamler is. And yes, Tim Patrick is a JAG ass Byron Pringle clone.

It's Courtland Sutton, a disappointing Judge Judy, a JAG, and ****ing nobody. Russell Wilson can probably boost those stat totals a little bit, but we're not going to see a transformation in any of those assholes. Because they're not ****ing talent. They're wishes and hopes and dreams.

That's not ****ing talent. You and Knowmo need to get that through your thick, fan-entitled skulls.

See the post I just wrote.

Thinking of a few instances of receivers putting up numbers with bad QBs really doesn’t prove your point, especially when you’re talking about a decent QB who put up good passing numbers in that year. And, again, the view that Denver’s receivers aren’t good prevails only in mullet-land. That’s the difference between Knowmo and me. My view is consistent with basically every independent observer and analyst. Knowmo says kooky shit all the time.

This is spot on.

No doubt... Denver has a legit QB now, so that makes a bit safe to start having real optimism. Lots of work still to be done, but at least for now, QB is not the problem.

So, I get why you would discount Jeudy and Hamler. They've had a half dozen QBs and about three OC's the last three seasons. Not a recipe for success, with back to back defensive minded coaches (granted those 2 weren't there for all that)

Sutton can be the real deal and Patrick has shown that he is a legitimate #2. Sutton missed nearly all of his 3rd year and Hamler missed nearly all of his 2nd year (last season). The inconsistency at QB and the revolving door there certainly did no favors to the WRs.

I like the new coaching staff and Russell Wilson is a very nice QB to add to this team. I think Sutton, Patrick, Hamler and Jeudy have great upside and we're about to find out if that is the case.

I totally get the disbelief in their abilities... they have to prove it and I think right now, they're in the best position to do so.

What you're spewing is pretty kooky too. In order for any of your players to be special, you have to play the "what if" game. No fan base over values their team's roster more than the Mule Tools of Denver do. I get it. You have been bad for sooooo long, you gotta believe!!!

Per my post a few minutes ago... those 4 WRs with Williams and possibly Gordon at RB are very nice skill players. Albert O at TE now and whomever they sign via FA or draft will be nice (I say go for Robert Tonyan). The OL needs some work, but it's much improved from 3 years ago and by most accounts a top 15 unit as it is now.

They weren't a QB away from winning a SB... but, they were a QB away from contending for the division and advancing to the playoffs. And, now they have that QB. We shall see very soon how it all plays out, but Denver is much better today than they were 4 days ago.

Again, just go look at what neutral commentators say about those receivers. Or consider why Wilson was all for Denver and nope to Washington, Philly, etc.

And I don’t really have a perspective on my team being bad for a long time—certainly nothing compared to you.

I never said the main issue with Denver’s offense was their WR’s.

I am pushing back on the laughable narrative that Denver supposedly has an offense “loaded” with elite playmakers.

This is not Tom Brady walking into a Tampa offense with Mike Evans and Chris Godwin.

This is not Matthew Stafford walking into an LA Rams offense with Cooper Kupp.

good mouser

Well, you’ve been pretty bad for 6 years in a row now managing to stay near the bottom of the AFC West most of those years.

Don’t sell yourself short. That’s pretty impressive in todays parity driven league where teams can literally turn the tide from one year to the next. Donkos haven’t been able to do that since Manning left.

So ‘Kudos’ to you and your team on that. :toast:

Neutral commentators are all saying the same thing. Their descriptions of your players all revolve around one word: Potential.

Jon Baldwin combined with Bowe and Breaston had potential. Paxton Lynch had potential.

And let's get really real. Your QBs have been unimpressive, but they haven't been abysmal. Most of them have been game managery. Flacco was ****ing terrible and so was Lynch. The rest did ok except for moments when they were just outright overmatched in every way. That's half of the league in any given year.

Potential ain't the same thing as talent, buddy.

You cannot be serious... :harumph:

Paxton Lynch did not have potential and no Denver QB has had more than 18 passing TDs in a regular season since 2014. Twentyeffingfourteen. That's flat out abysmal.

You're just as confused, man. Paxton Lynch totally had potential. That's why he was drafted.

He sucked balls because he couldn't put his potential to work. Not because he didn't have any.

Teddy and Lock if given an actually great playmaker could have gotten him 1000 yards. The only guy to actually hit that mark was Sutton, and he did it once.

Jeudy is dogshit. Sutton is fine. And the rest of your WRs will see a small bump in production and little else.

Jeudy is dogshit. That’s all you needed to say. That or jump up and down like a monkey and throw your shit around.

I've been trying to give you all kinds of counterexamples of actual good WRs who did well with mediocre game manager QBs, but you're the one who says, "Meeeeehhhhh... that's just one example!"

Like, do I really have to write the goddamn list for you? Can't you just mentally do that yourself and not waste like 20 minutes of my life?

DeVonta Smith just had almost 1,000 yards and 5 TD’s with a guy that can’t throw the football.

How many receiving yards did Hill have in his first 2 years?

1,776 yards and 13 TDs.

And Tyreek was a small school guy that was still learning to play WR.

I just feel like this conversation ended when you brought up DJ Moore.

Teddy Bridgewater got 3,000 receiving yards out of Moore, Samuel and Robbie Anderson.

The same damn guy got 2,000 out of this superstar trio of Sutton, Jeudy and Patrick.

It’s the same quarterback! The very next season!

Why are we still talking about this? We have the lab results.

I hope both our game are played late in the season with below 10 degrees weather. I don't think he's going like playing in frost bite conditions at either Arrowhead or Mile High.

And had a WR-adverse QB throwing him the ball.

Yeah, Jeudy would be Rice right now if it weren't for injuhwies and those gosh darn game manager QBs!

plus 3 more rushing, the same amount that Jeudy has receiving in two years.

Oh, so that matters that the hill had a “wr adverse” QB?

Are you trying to say DJ Moore is a bad receiver? Dude is #5 in receiving yards over the last 3 years, ahead of Tyreek.

I am not.

I'm saying that Moore, Anderson and Samuel is a good trio. But nobody would say that's some superstar group.

And those guys were a full third better than what Bridgewater did with your trio. That's an absolute ass-kicking. They averaged 1,000 yards each and yours averaged 700.

Y'all are saying that you'd take Sutton/Jeudy/Patrick over Hill/Kelce/Hardman and I'm saying your group can't even come close to hanging with Moore/Anderson/Samuel with the same guy under center so maybe tap the brakes on the group featuring a couple of guys that will be in Canton someday.

Exactly. Donk logic. All the losing has warped their brains. LMAO

This thread has three groups of people in it.

1. Bronco Homers - Wilson is going to win multiple championships because the Broncos have a top 5 defense and an amazing group of weapons. Wilson has never had this great of talent around him.

2. Middle of the road - This was a win for the Broncos but this team is not as stacked as everyone says it is. He's good enough to elevate that offense and get them to the playoffs but a championship is not guaranteed. The Broncos are probably on par with the Chargers but have a more proven QB.

3. Chiefs homers - Wilson is garbage. The Broncos mortgaged their future for a broken QB who hasn't done shit without a defense. The Broncos are still 4th best in the AFC.

I remember neutral commentators falling head over heels for Ryan Leaf while measuring him to Peyton Manning. I remember the slobbering over Mandarich, Emtman, Schuler, Akili Smith, and Jamarcus Russell...never forget, you are talking to people born and raised in "The Show-Me State".

A) You're using a single data point to prove your point. I could just as easily point to 2015 MIN (Bridgewater's only other full season) to show that Denver's receivers are better than Diggs/Rudolph/Wallace/Thielen. Same QB, right?

B) I think DJ Moore is a superstar. His stats basically stayed the same in 2022 when catching passes from Sam Darnold and Zombie Cam Newton, and in 2020 mostly catching passes from someone named Kyle Allen. He apparently produces a lot with horrible QBs.

You can point to 2015 as more demonstrative than 2020? 6 seasons ago as opposed to 1? And cite the rookie season of a 5th round pick in Diggs, the 2nd year of a special teams specialist in Thielen and the decline years of a journeyman #3 wideout in Mike Wallace as being comparable to the prime years of Moore, Anderson and Samuel? This is how you intend to prove your point and you think you can fairly an intelligently make this argument?

Um...no, I do not believe you can. That's quite stupid.

And a single data point? I'm pointing to easily the most salient data point. SNR and others have provided you with several more. A brick need not be a wall, but man this is a BIG damn brick.

DJ Moore is very good. And I reiterate - he left anybody you have in the dust. And no, he's not Tyreek Hill. Nor is Anderson Travis Kelce. And Curtis Samuel essentially IS Mecole Hardman.

Three guys, one season removed from Teddy Bridgewater playing QB for the Broncos, in similar stages in their careers to the Broncos 'superstar trio', strafed those dudes. I mean absolutely waxed their asses. At that rate you could've let them play 20 games to 15 for the Panthers group and the Panthers group would've STILL come out ahead.

That's a terrible effort sport. I'd probably pack it up and head home if that's the best you've got.

:facepalm:

Broncos fans got more stupid over the years, huh?

Were our representatives over at The Mane this stupid back when we were desperate?

Because man, this just ain't real bright.

Every post you make proves it

Umm what?

staylor26 catching strays right now. LMAO

Sutton and Jeudy will both be 1,000 yard receivers with Russ. Sutton already accomplished that once a couple years ago and Jeudy had 850 this year.

You have to consider just how god awful Drew Lock is too. He played 3 games for them.

Jeudy does have drop problems though. That’s a big problem of his. And these guys aren’t Lockett/Metcalf

If you think Wallace was in decline, take a look at his 2016 season.

Thielen essentially started a run of 1000 yard seasons the moment he stopped playing with Bridgewater.

I noticed that you didn't even bother to mention Rudolph.

MIN's passing game exploded the next season when they ditched Bridgewater and went with the upgrade to Sam Bradford.

Bridgewater's career is littered with receivers who play much better once they play with a different QB.

I'm not the one arguing that Bridgewater is actually a good QB.

Thielen played 20% of the offensive snaps in 2015. He played more special teams snaps than he played offensive snaps. There is absolutely nothing relevant about a guy's snap count quadrupling during the magical "3rd Year Leap" for wide receivers suddenly producing more. Duh. Of course he did. He played.

Glad we've moved on from Diggs. Good call there.

As for Wallace, what precisely would you call a guy who went from 930 to 862 to 473 yards receiving as he entered his 30s? That's a declining player. He had himself an Indian Summer season when his competition for targets was a 37 yr old Steve Smith and a 31 year old Dennis Pitta. Good for him. But no, he was nothing approaching the player he was in Pittsburgh.

As for Kyle Rudolph - what about him? He was...there. He was an adequate red zone target. That's where you're hanging your hat now? Oh well - it still a better argument than Thielen and Diggs, I guess.

You're right though. Their passing offense really EXPLODED from 7.2 Y/A to....7 Y/A. I especially like how their QBR went from 57.7 to...uh...well shit, 53.1 under Bradford. But points per game! Yeah, points per game. It went from 22.8 points per game right in the middle of the league all the way to....OH ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME!?!? It went down to 20.4 and 23rd in the league??

Yeah - offense really went HAM after Bridgewater left. Sam Bradford took that squad that went 11-5 with Bridgewater and took them over the hump all the way to 8-8 despite the defense surrendering an identical number of points per game.

Seriously - what in the actual hell are you talking about. You know you can look this stuff up before you post it right. I don't have a jeopardy song in the background that's going to make you speak before confirming things. You can take a beat, make sure you're not pulling shit from your ass, THEN post.

If you think that’s the argument, you’re reeruned.

Dafuq are you talking about? Who's arguing that Bridgewater is a good QB?

He's the isolated variable in the equation you dolt. Good, bad, mediocre, black, white, lefthanded, crippled gay or straight - every single part of that question is irrelevant to the discussion.

He's your throughput. He's the variable that doesn't change when comparing 2 consecutive seasons. Nobody is saying otherwise.

Tap out, bro. This is getting embarrassing.

Does that moron that think I’m a Broncos fan? His post doesn’t even make sense lol.

Sadly, I honest to God think he might.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Bridgewater is a good QB. I think the argument is that a ‘solid’ group of WR’s in Carolina looked competent with him at QB, but the very next season in Denver this supposed ‘elite talented’ group of WR looked like garbage with the same exact QB.

That’s the point.

We were talking about passing games, now you want to bring in overall offense and team record. MIN 2015 with Bridgewater was 2928 yards passing, 14 TDs 9 INTs. MIN 2016 with Bradford was 3836 yards, 20 TDs 5 INTs. If you want to compare their offense overall, perhaps you should look into their run game going from 2200 yards in 2015 to 1200 yards in 2016.

Bridgewater threw for more than 3200 yards in 2015 (again, you can look this stuff up) on 447 attempts at 7.2 yards/attempt. Bradford threw for 3900 yards on 552 attempts at 7.0 yards/attempt. They threw the ball more - by no means did they throw it better.

Their starting RB got hurt so they had their quarterback throwing the ball more. Duh. What does that have to do with anything? They weren't any better at it.

Let me get this straight: the 18th ranked passing offense in 2020 is competent, while the 19th ranked passing offense in 2021 is garbage.

Sure they did. Look at adjusted net yards per attempt (includes sacks, TDs, INTs). Bridgewater was at 5.7 ANY/A, and Bradford was at 6.41 ANY/A. I'm not sure why you seem to ignore the TDs and INTs, but 20/5 is obviously much better than 14/9.

Maybe Jeudy will. Maybe Sutton will stay healthy for once. Maybe Tim Patrick is a slow-developing WR who will keep improving little by little like Julian Edelman.

Oooooor... maybe Teddy isn't as bad as Donk fans think he is. Again... Tyler ****ing Thigpen made Bowe and Gonzalez 1000 yard receivers. Bridgewater can't turn Judge Judy into a 1000 yard receiver? He can't get that guy ONE measly ****ing TD?

Could it be.... here's a thought... maybe Jeudy just isn't a WR1 type of player? Maybe he's more Doug Baldwin than he is DK Metcalf? Isn't it possible?

Well throwing 6 TDs from inside the 3 yard line because your All Pro RB is out for the year will help pad those stats a little, wouldn't you say?

And Matt Stafford threw 20 picks, Jared Goff threw 8. Guess the Rams lost that trade afterall, eh? Think the Redksins would send us Heinicke for Mahomes since Taylor threw fewer interceptions?

But again, this argument has nothing to do with the quality of Teddy Bridgewater as a QB - that's some weird discussion you seem to be wanting to have with nobody in particular. The point is that Bridgewater is a constant between two comparable WR corps and the 2020 WR production dwarved the 2021 WR production. And yes, for obvious reasons, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to compare 2020 Bridgewater to 2021 Bridgewater than it does to use the 2015 player or his WRs stats.

You're the one trying to muddy up the waters here despite being told numerous times that you're clearly missing the point.

Okay, let's compare just 2020 Bridgewater in CAR to 2021 Bridgewater in DEN if that's what you want.

2020: 15 TDs 11 INTS
2021: 18 TDs 7 INTs

Which looks like he was playing with the better group of receivers?

NOBODY'S TRYING TO ARGUE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF BRIDGEWATER AS A QB

Or...y'know...we could just compare the top 3 pass-catching options for the Panthers w/ Bridgewater directly to the top 3 pass-catching options for the Broncos w/ Bridgewater.

Patrick, Sutton and Jeudy combined for 7 of those 18 scores. Moore, Anderson and Samuel combined for 10 of Bridgewaters 15.

Looks to me like the 2020 version was playing with a MUCH better group of receivers.

This really the argument you want to be making right now?

Dude hasn't been in the thread all morning while you've been chasing rabbits throughout it.

But nice try.

Right, let’s cherry pick rather than look at the whole picture.

It's not cherry picking - the conversation is DIRECTLY arising out of the assertion that Sutton, Jeudy and Patrick is a 'loaded' WR crew. I'm speaking directly to THEIR production vs. their counterparts in Carolina the year before.

But because you refuse to acknowledge that this is most assuredly not a conversation about Teddy Bridgewater's skills as a passer, you continue to try to obfuscate.

The 'whole picture' is that the three guys you're claiming constitute a 'loaded' wide receiver crew were nowhere CLOSE to as productive as the 3 guys who were hardly considered some transcendent group of WR talent.

I think “that moron” was trying to compliment you. He may have worded it awkwardly, but on my third reading he seemed to be saying that every post of yours proved the Broncos fans to be dumber. (It’s not that I necessarily agree with his assessment, it’s just that I think I cracked it.)

You may be right, if so, I apologize for calling him a moron!

I never claimed any such thing. I only entered the conversation to correct the absurd notion that if some scrub like DJ Moore could succeed with Bridgewater then anyone who couldn’t was obviously not talented. And yes, I would gladly take Moore over any of the 3 Denver receivers.

In the grand scheme, obviously Bridgewater’s talent level is the major factor here, because him being replaced by Wilson is the main variable between DEN’s 2021 offense and its 2022 offense.

manchambo was. Or whatever his name is.

I know, and realistically any Denver conversation that doesn’t include a mention of Bridgewater’s skill level is pretty pointless right now.

So to recap:

When someone else's argument falls apart upon even a cursory inspection, you inserted yourself into the middle of said conversation to 'rebut' an assertion that was never made.

Got it.

FYP. And yes, it’s fun.

:spock:

I thought we were comparing WR groups, no? So now you’re bringing TE’s and RB’s into the discussion? So we doing the apples to oranges comparison now?

The FACTS are that three separate WR’s with Carolina in 2020 with Teddy Bridgewater at QB each put up more yards individually than ANY Bronco receiver this year . . . . . . . with the same Teddy Bridgewater at QB.

So while Teddy is only an average QB at best, it seems to me we can draw 2 conclusions from that:

1. Your ‘talented’ WR group is not as talented as you think.

2. Maybe, perhaps, Teddy wasn’t your main (or at least only) issue this year? Maybe you need better skill position players, particularly at WR.


Just a thought.

I don't know what the apparently strict terms of your discussion were before I showed up, but maybe the disparity in WR stats has something to do with the fact that the top 3 WRs at CAR were targeted 351 times in 2020, while the top 3 WRs at DEN were targeted 239 times in 2021. CAR didn't use a TE pretty much at all (39 targets total).

If the offensive philosophy between the teams was so different, wouldn't we get a better picture by considering al the pass catchers instead of just limiting ourselves to one section?

I give up. :facepalm:

Denver’s WR group is clearly elite.

I’m sure they will all put up 1000+ yards this season with Wilson at QB.

:rolleyes:

What a weird response, I didn’t say anything like that. Do you think that CAR’s WRs getting nearly 1 1/2 times as many targets could have contributed to their increased production?

Really choose 70 year old Pete over Russ lmao

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ongoing dissension between Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson was a key factor in Wilson being traded, according to multiple sources. “I think Russell was done with Pete’s run-first, conservative approach,” one said. “Pete won’t adapt. The offensive staff felt the same.” <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Seahawks?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Seahawks</a></p>&mdash; Jordan Schultz (@Schultz_Report) <a href="https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1501994245456027650?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I’m in Seattle, and I don’t know anyone here who is happy about this trade.

Well, of course.

Generally speaking, though, I think more targets are given to the players that each team thinks will be the most successful. Or if not the coaches, then certainly the QB (it’s his pass to make, after all).

I think in 2020, Teddy had confidence in and felt comfortable throwing to his top 3 WR’s in Carolina. Which is why they had more targets. And they didn’t have a reliable TE. And McCaffrey (a great receiving back) was injured most of the year.

In Denver, I think Teddy (and the coaching staff) felt more comfortable distributing the ball around to other targets (TE’s, RB’s for instance) than focusing on his WR’s.

Is that because Teddy (and the coaching staff) thought they would be more successful targeting the TE’s and RB’s more and the WR’s less? If that’s the case, why? Were they THAT confident in Albert O., Noah, Javonte and Melvin as receivers as opposed to the WR group? Or did they have concerns about their WR group being reliable targets? Did Teddy not trust them? Did the coaching staff not trust them (they’re the ones who design the game plans, after all).

Regardless, ultimately what matters is what’s put on the field. Results speak for themselves. Any Denver fan (or media talking head or prognosticator) that wants to prop up Denver’s WR group as ‘elite’ when they have proven NOTHING on the field (outside of one good year by Sutton) is an idiot.

They have not been a Russell Wilson away from being Chase, Higgins and Boyd or Kupp, Woods and OBJ or even Hill, Watkins, and Hardman.

I find it amusing that some of you Donko fans seem to think that.


I guess we’ll all find out this year, won’t we?

I don't see how they all could. But is it really that strange to think Sutton or Patrick, who put up 775 and 730, respectively in 2021, will put up a thousand yard year with a much better QB?

The worst thing about this is that we have to listen to ****ing Denver fans run their ****ing mouths until November or December now instead of just October. It's intolerable!

I find that I suddenly care about football a lot more. With Siemian/Oswieler/Bridgewater/etc, I just couldn’t be bothered.

Imagine that!

yeah, well, we suffered for a long, long time.

50 ****ing years we wandered in the desert, but we still showed up.

so cry me a river.