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Hmmmmmmmm
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Corrected everything at the most desperate point.
Kudos. |
I’m curious which coaches people think would have handled this better.
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"I'll take just about anybody! Anybody else can figure out the clock! That's all we need! Andy hasn't been able to figure out the clock and never will!"
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I wasn't in the game thread but I'm guessing Andy Reid punting on 4th down down 14 - 0 was controversial. That includes me. Andy Reid deserves a ton of credit for today. It wasn't his fault we were down early. But the team fed off his incredible poise in the comeback. Even at their worse, the team never looked down on their spirits.
I wonder how many will compare our decision to punt on this drive to Obrien going for the fake. Arguably two pivotal game changers. |
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the golden age
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Andy Reid is going to his 7th conference championship game in 21 seasons as head coach<br><br>Only Bill Belichick and Tom Landry have coached in more<br><br>Do you want to see Big Red win his first Super Bowl? <a href="https://t.co/YyRPKDUfhK">pic.twitter.com/YyRPKDUfhK</a></p>— John Clark (@JClarkNBCS) <a href="https://twitter.com/JClarkNBCS/status/1216507655143010310?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
wallcrawler was begging for more runs
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I argued with someone in another thread, but college coaches, even great college coaches fail in the NFL. Even the greatest college coach of all time failed in the NFL. Jimmy Johnson (I am not counting Switzer because he was just the baby sitter for that team) is the only real success story in the modern NFL when it comes to true college head coaches successfully transitioning to the NFL. Jimmy Johnson used his familiarity of elite college teams and their personnel, along with the multiple picks acquired in the worst trade in NFL history, to rebuild an old and aging roster into a young, fast, and talented roster. Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk |
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Sure, the Texans DL was on their knees and gasping for air as the Chiefs were setting up to take a 28-24 lead, but I've been told that defending the pass doesn't tire defenders out so it must've just been the cold. |
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Guys
Marty would have coached it better, since he is apparently arguably better |
It was sickening to see all of the dorks calling for Andy's head in the first quarter when:
Kelce drops a wide open first down. Robinson drops a wide open first down. Hill muffs a punt within his own 10 yard line. Fisher false starts. Robinson drops another big pass. A blocked punt. PLAYERS PLAY THE GAME. |
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Romo made an interesting callout that toward the end of the game we weren't even getting to third down. Wonder if that's an adjustment to our crucial third down drops. If you go for the throat three times vs chipping away at a first down, it's easier to overcome drops. |
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It was pretty entertaining to play the freakish caricature of all of Andy Reid's supposed flaws in Bill OBrien. Take a step back and realize that Reid, even with his legitimate flaws, isn't nearly as bad as you've convinced yourselves he is.
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Andy has been remarkable in the 2nd half of the season and yesterday as well...
Never hated the guy but was an outspoken critic and I'm definitely readying the crow to eat. I hope he does, I really want to see him win a Super Bowl. Yesterday was the day it hit me just how lucky we have it...I get it now, I was foolish before. |
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And they scored 51 points. That game was just unreal. |
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:) |
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Are they always going to make the decision I'd have made? Nope, but that's not a reasonable expectation as a sports fan. You just want intelligent people making informed decisions for the right reasons. For the last 5 years I have rarely doubted that we had all 3 of those ingredients (with some concern over Veach's tunnel-vision as my last real sticking point). Reid is absolutely a smart man who is incredibly prepared and is making the decisions he's making with the singular purpose of winning a championship. Once I came to trust in all that, it made being a Chiefs fans slightly less torturous. This is a good organization and it may well be a great one. Remember that the greatest HC of all time and arguably the greatest QB of all time - in an era of unparalleled prosperity - still only went to the SB about half the time. When the absolute best that has ever been done is to win your conference about half the time you try it (and nobody else has ever come even close to that), it's really important that we recognize how difficult it is to even get THIS far. Reid's an amazing coach and in 2 years with a championship caliber QB at the helm he's had us in 2 CCGs. Yeah - we've got it pretty good fellas. Enjoy this and try not to be the miserable **** who wonders why we aren't taking the ball out of Patrick Mahomes hands 25-30 times/gm. |
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Because evidently it's Reid's fault for not telling his guys to listen in the huddle or something. |
Im in love with the fat man..
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I would just like to take the time to acknowledge that despite taking the lead, we did not take our foot off the gas yesterday.
Goddamn was that sexy |
It's just crazy how far we've come so quickly.
In 2012 we had the worst record in the league and a franchise teetering on Browns level shittyness. Andy and company show up and we're about to host our 2nd straight AFC championship game at Arrowhead, have the best QB in the league (who is legit on a HOF track to start his career), completely dominate our division, and have a franchise everyone points to for stability. I understand they don't have a SB win. It sucks for us as fans, for the team, for Andy, for everyone. I get it. But shit man, it's impressive. |
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Actually feel like a pretty big asshole for doubting him or being negative towards him. I really want to win the SB for him above all us TBH.... |
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The article mentions how Reid uses his timeouts like in basketball to calm down everyone and he takes a slower pace to make sure they get the play right, but football is not basketball and this is a stupid strategy that has backfired again and again. Football is not continous play like basketball - there are breaks between plays. Football coaches shouldn't have to call timeouts to "calm" players or get the right play called. Also, his slower pace and timeouts give the D a chance to calm down and reset as well at a time when the offense could be dictating the pace and tiring the D out and using the time to its advantage in some cases. But Andy is so stubborn and he thinks he's such a great playcaller that he can just call a better play than the D and that this will outweigh any time advantage. This is why we lost that chargers game last year that's mentioned in the article as one example of how this approach backfires a lot. What the best coaches do is that they practice and plan for these situations ahead of time so that when the situation comes up, they can just call a play and expect the players to be professional and execute it without needing their poor little nerves calmed down. Good teams do this all the time, but reid is so stubborn he sticks with this misguided philosophy of sacrificing timeouts and taking too long. Before people slam me for criticizing reid after a nice win, just remember that I said that I think we will still win the bowl despite this flaw and i still think andy is a great coach. If we keep scoring like yesterday, then clock management won't even come into play. But this flaw in reid's game management is still lurking. I just hope it doesn't bite his ass again. By the way, I'm not blaming andy for the poor start yesterday. kelce, robinson, and tyreek should know they need to catch the ball in their hands. |
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I just couldn't believe how long it took Colquitt to unload the ball. |
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Yesterday, Winchester had some iffy snaps on the extra points, including the one that was missed. |
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The most valuable commodity in football is reps. And with limited practice time, there is only so much 'groundwork' you can do in-season when you're also trying to do weekly installs against a different opponent each week. This idea that a football coach should just have his team prepared for any eventuality ignore that basic underlying premise - you just can't. There's simply not enough time. There aren't enough reps. Sometimes you simply cannot practice a particular scenario and when it surfaces, someone's gotta man the rudder. My good friend resigned his commission as a Major and he said the one thing he always took away from the Army was that when everything is going to shit, the guy that survives and thrives is the guy that takes that extra moment to pause, get his wits about him and then act while everyone else is losing their minds. Reid's willingness when shit is going sideways on him to take a moment, keep his head, call that time-out and get everyone on the same page is a feature, not a bug. That's someone with a clear enough head to realize that right now his guys simply need a bit of a soft re-set to back away from the putt, line it back up and give it a go. He can't ask his players to do that because in that moment just have too much stuff they need to worry about. But from the sideline, he can. He can recognize that they need that re-set. That willingness to act as a true general when he knows that he can't just leave it up to his guys to steady themselves is a sign of a GOOD coach, not a flaw. You're looking so hard for reasons to be contrarian with Reid that you're coming up with stuff that simply doesn't make sense. |
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The Pats game I agree - he missed the fake. But when the guy behind me yesterday mentioned that Colquitt may have mishandled the snap, I immediately got to thinking about the issues Winchester has had. Like I said - I could easily be wrong. That's not exactly something they were showing on the Jumbotron. It just felt like Colquitt was slow to get it off and that's odd for a guy that's been around as long as he has. |
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Second, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether this philosophy of Andy's is a feature or bug. There are certain situations where you need to be both smart and quick at the same time, and if you fail to do one or the other, then you lose. If Andy cannot get effective plays in quickly enough, especially when I've witnessed other coaches be able to do it (Belichick has used an array of speeds from slow to quick no-huddle to his advantage many times), then to me that's a flaw compared to other great coaches. Calling an effective play and getting a play off quickly are not two mutually exclusive things. This is what andy fails to realize and what other great coaches have been able to do successfully. Wouldn't you agree that it gives your team an advantage if you can get effective plays called in and do it quickly at the same time? I'm not saying it's easy to do, otherwise belichick and other great coaches wouldn't be so special, but it certainly can be done and has been by other great coaches. When you have the ball on offense, you can dictate the pace and manipulate the clock to your advantage. Andy basically forfeits this important tool every game with his backwards philosophy. For example, the chargers loss last year where he could have ran more clock and left the chargers with less time to come back. However, Andy, either because his plays are too complicated and he needed a stop to figure things out or because his players needed to "calm down", had to stop the clock to get the right play in. I'm not looking to be contrarian on Reid. I've witnessed his philosophy bite him in the ass numerous times over 2 decades. Like I said, I think we can win a super bowl despite it, but historically, he has not had good luck in finishing a season with a super bowl with his philosophy. The history seems to be on my side in this debate and I think common sense is as well. There are always exceptions where things change so I'm hoping this year is one of those times. |
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That reeruned "clock management" issue that you keep harping on, without a shred of evidence or data to back up your claims, was blown completely out of the water yesterday, or weren't you sharp enough to see it right there in front of your face? In the 2nd quarter, Andy calls a quick drive after the great kick return to score at about 9:55 remaining in the half. The defense gets the ball back to him and he runs another quick drive and scores another TD in near-record time, leaving more than 6 minutes on the clock. We get the ball back again, and Andy calls yet a third drive that scores in an NFL playoff record time of 3:23 seconds. And then when he gets the ball back a fourth time, he calls a final TD scoring drive while leaving the Texans about a half a minute on the clock. That's the greatest "clock management" performance you've ever seen, dipstick. Write it down. Staple it to your forehead. |
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Go back and read DJLN's reply to my post, print it out and staple that to your forehead you ****ing mouthbreather bc that's how you intelligently discuss football. |
All I know is Andy's gameplanning and playcalling yesterday were masterful. I guarantee you Mahomes is grateful his QB star got attached to such an offensive mastermind, and great person. Can't wait to see what he draws up for this week.
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As for the stupid TO argument, who gives a flying shit if he uses TOs differently than other coaches? I got news for you genius. All the great ones use them slightly differently from each other. And Andy has a very successful record of using a TO to get his troops on the same page and then executing a great play coming out of that TO. Most coaches in the league would kill to be able to do that. |
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Maybe Andy was thinking about getting the ball back again? It's not crazy; with a minute to go and two TOs in his pocket, HOU would be forced to throw to move down the field to get into scoring position. Spags could do his thing, maybe force a T/O, and maybe even a short field with time on the clock. If all he wanted to do was run down the clock, he's did that before against the Lions. And whichever other team that was. But he obviously tried to score quickly there. I think maybe he was looking for a gift from Billy O' Brien. Whatever. That last series makes a complete fiction of the idea that Andy doesn't know how to score quickly when necessary. He went 90 yards in 5 plays and about 1:30 minutes. The whole BS idea that Andy would call a 16 or 13 play drive on purpose because he can't tell time is utter nonsense. |
<iframe width="640" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MJivcSCuJGM" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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preserved in this thread
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This might be my favorite GIF of Andy Reid ever.<br><br>DT's ghost just popped the ball into Darwin Thompson's hands on the kickoff return and everyone is going nuts.<br><br>He's studying the menu for what kind of gravy he wants to put on the next delicious TD. <a href="https://t.co/y3Yb0R2e0n">pic.twitter.com/y3Yb0R2e0n</a></p>— 76 Sent (@ClayWendler) <a href="https://twitter.com/ClayWendler/status/1217266959844331520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
Winning this week is for Clark
Winning Miami is for Andy |
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Don’t let Clark beat the drum.
WE WANT GRACIE! |
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Marty was going to the Super Bowl with San Diego, and in the pregame he walked up to each DB and told them that when they caught the game clenching interception, to just go down. What did the DB do? He tried to return it and got stripped and the Patriots go to the Super Bowl. THE LOSS IS NOT MARTY'S FAULT And in Kansas City he is about to go to the Super Bowl, and Kimble Anders drops a pass on the goal line, and then Montana get a concussion, and he loses to the Bill's. If Joe doesn't leave that game, we had a legitimate chance. This loss is partially on Marty, but not really. Then he has an all time defense, and his kicker misses 3 field goals. Why did the kicker miss 3 easy, kicks? Because the President/GM decided to cut/not resign the second most accurate FG kicker ever (at the time) because he wanted to save about $1,000,000 dollars, even though the team had money to spend against the cap. The President/GM was just greedy. This loss was on Peterson. Each of those franchises were absolute garbage, bottom barrel teams when he became the HC, and except for some freak plays, he would have taken every one of them to the Super Bowl. Which of these records belongs to Andy Reid? 200–126–1 (.613) 207–128–1 (.618) Yes, Marty Schottenheimer is arguably a better coach than Andy Reid. The word arguably doesn't mean what several people on CP think it means, apparently. Saying that Marty is arguably better than Andy means it could be argued. What he accomplished in Cleveland, Kansas City, and San Diego given the state of those teams when he took over, is more impressive than what Reid did in Philly and Kansas City. Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk |
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Don't argue that he's almost as good - argue that he's better. Because even your strongest data point - the comparable regular season records - doesn't support that Marty was better. Especially when you give us nonsense like "the state of those teams when he took over..." Cleveland in '83: 9-7 Kansas City in '88: 4-11-1 Washington in '00: 8-8 San Diego in '01: 5-11 (with Drew Brees on the roster) Marty's squads immediately before he took over were a combined 26-37-1 for a .414 winning percentage. Eagles in '98: 3-13 Chiefs in '12: 2-14 Reid's squads were 5-27 for a staggeringly awful .156 winning percentage. The 'state of those teams' when Marty took over were universally better than any of the teams that Reid took over. They weren't great, but they were clearly better. So like I said - don't make an argument that he's almost as good. That's an arguable position that I wouldn't quibble loudly with. Give me an argument that he's better. You just can't. Marty was a good coach, but there is no argument to make at all that he was a better one than Andy Reid. Not regular season success, not post-season success, not the mountains he had to climb, not in terms of his impact/innovation in the league. There is simply no argument to be made that Marty Schottenheimer, as good as he was, was a better coach than Andy Reid. |
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Reid is on his way to his 7th conference championship game and has been to a SB he barely lost. 7 conference championships in 21 season. 33% of the time he gets his team there. Marty went to 3 conference championships, 14% of the time he made it that far. Reid is considered an innovator and an offensive genius. Marty was just a good coach who got a lot out of his defense. I say all this believing Marty was a great coach. Marty cant sniff Reid's jock. |
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Marty adopted a blueprint and executed it well. He essentially borrowed the Parcells model, installed DT as his own Lawrence Taylor, and rode that to sustained success. Now you can try to argue that Reid did that somewhat by borrowing key concepts from the WCO but if you looked at the Walsh WCO and the Reid WCO they barely look like the same sport. You look at what Parcells and co. were doing with his defense and what Marty was doing with his, it was virtually identical. Like I said - if this is arguable, try to argue it. Argue that Marty had more success in the regular season or post-season. Argue that Marty did more with less. Argue that Marty was a greater innovator or had a larger impact on the league. Don't try to argue that he was good because nobody's disagreeing with that point. Give me anything you have in your quiver that says he was BETTER. |
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Okay, I'll try to explain this in a way you might understand. IF ANDY TRULY BELIEVED THAT NONSENSE HE TOLD THAT REPORTER IN THAT INTERVIEW HOWEVER MANY YEARS AGO, THEN WHEN HE WAS DOWN 24-0 WITH 10 MINUTES LEFT IN THE 2ND QUARTER, HOW WOULD HE HAVE RESPONDED? I mean, this was a CLASSIC scenario of what your reporter was talking about, right? Andy needs to score quickly twice to get back in the game, there's not a lot of time on the clock, and Andy decides that the best way to do that is to call more than a dozen plays to get a single score. Pretty much the exact same scenario as what happened in 2006 and 2016, am I right? SO ACCORDING TO YOUR REPORTER, ANDY WOULD'VE SPENT 13-16 PLAYS AND 6 MINUTES TRUNDLING DOWN THE FIELD TO GET ONE (1, SOLO, UNO) SCORE, RIGHT? THAT'S THE NARRATIVE YOU AND THAT REPORTER AND YOUR FRIENDS ARE TRYING TO SELL, YES? Or maybe Andy settles for a FG, after a 10 play drive or something like that, because Andy has no idea how to read a clock and understand that he needs to score quickly and often. That's the 'philosophy' that Andy supposedly believes in, according to you and your article. So there's no way that what happened in the 2nd quarter on Sunday should've happened, period. But obviously it did. So how did it happen? I eagerly await your explanation. |
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Being down 24-0 early in the 2nd quarter is not the same as being in a close game towards the end of the 4th quarter. There was still plenty of time in the game for andy to take his time and score. Yes, it was nice that they scored quickly in the 2nd, but they were assisted by special teams shortcutting the process. Not much need to manage the timing of a drive when you have hardman setting us up in the opponent's territory and a fumble putting us in the red zone. I would hope that a score in those situations would be extra quick since there isn't much field to cover. Go ahead and keep denying that andy has a philosophy of taking extra time and timeouts to settle players down and make sure he has the right play - despite the man himself saying it and despite, not some reporter, but numerous coaches/best friends of Andy who have worked closely with him for years saying it as well. Did you even read the damn article? Although I disagreed with him, DJLN is intelligent enough to recognize the issue - he just spins the issue as being a good thing rather than the flaw that I see it as. Seriously, go back and read the article and then read the conversation between myself and DJLN and maybe you'll finally recognize the issue. Then maybe you can keep up with the rest of us instead of quoting play by plays from random drives that do not speak to the issue at all and denying the words of the man at issue himself, and then on top of all that, acting like a smug, know-it-all douche who has to call people names b/c you disagree with them even though you're too dumb to even recognize the issue we are debating. |
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And the 90-yard drive to score for the fourth time and take the lead? I know Limpwrist here isn't going to understand what happened, but for everyone else . . . Andy and Pat started on their own 10-yard line with 2:47 left in the half. Now, according to the "Andy is a shitty clock manager" crowd, pay attention: Andy dials up 6 plays that cover 80 yards and only uses a mere 1:42. If Andy were the terrible clock manager that Limpy et all seem to think he is, then this drive would've taken 13-16 plays, right? Or maybe because there's only 2:47 left in the half, Andy dials up some 15-play meandering (that's the word the reporter actually used, IIRC, "meandering" which means I must've read the article, right?) and never even gets into FG range, yes? That's the dipstick narrative some dolts are swallowing, correct? However, that turns out not to be the case at all, does it? Limpy? Bueller? Anyone? Moving on . . . Now Pat helps him out a bit here on the first play by throwing at Kelce, actually purposefully over-throwing him, because he sees the DPI and wants to make sure it's called. That pass was designed to go to Damien. Whether or not Damien would've gotten the 15 yards is up for debate, but was likely. However, by attracting attention to the DPI, it forces a clock stoppage. Maybe Damien would've been tackled inbounds, so this was a great play by Pat. Otherwise Pat executes the next 3 plays as designed, though one may have been in fact a designed run. Doesn't matter though, as the Chiefs cover 65 yards over the next 5 plays and uses up just 1:42 of the clock. The next two plays both should've been TDs, but Pat was back-pedaling on the first one and missed Damien, and Pat was being dragged down on the second and missed DRob. Those two plays took up 10 seconds. On 3rd down Pat decides to quit fooling around and hits Kelce for the TD with about :44 remaining. And that, ladies and gentlemen, was the statement drive. Andy was telling the HOU DC that he could dial up a long drive from any field position and score a TD in less than 2 minutes or drag it out and do it in 6 minutes. That TD was the game-winner. Now some people are going to nit-pick that Andy should've tried to bleed more clock and perhaps burn down the clock to as close to :00 as possible before scoring. And they may have a small point here. But mathematically the odds of the Texans offense being able to go 75 yards in :44 after going 27 yards on 6 plays in a 1:27 for a PUNT on their previous possession were pretty small. In fact, it could easily be argued that HOU moving the ball far enough to even attempt a 51-yard FG was more lucky than anything else. I rest my case. |
THANK YOU ANDY!!!
Great complete game coaching! One more game to go. |
Andy> Chief fan.
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Very, very much worth a read.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ia-peter-king/ “I go into every game thinking we’re gonna win and rip your heart out." |
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****, these people are wired differently
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Whatever you THINK you know, you don't. If you're sitting there thinking "man, if Andy Reid would just do what I'm saying he should do..." --- stop. Andy Reid is coming at this from a position of more knowledge and experience than you have when wiping your own ass. That dude is prepared beyond comprehension and he's !@#$ing brilliant to boot. Andy Reid is better at this than all but a small handful of people have EVER been. He's one of those rare moments where desire and aptitude met. It isn't often that the thing you most love in the world is also the thing you're best at doing. That's how Patrick Mahomes and Mike Trout and Michael Jordan happen. And yes, that's how Andy Reid happens as well. |
Football is Andy's art and this postseason has been his Sistine Chapel
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I know it may not look that way, but Andy really has done a good job of shedding some weight since he’s been here.
He’s at the end of the postseason road all the way to the Super Bowl and he still isn’t as fat as he is in that picture Clay just posted |
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Give us one more win (this season) Andy. You can do it...
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Yeah, he could probably stand to eat a salad more often than he does, but considering his lifestyle, the fact that he does lose weight in the offseason and ever since first getting hired hasn't ever really ballooned up to what he was, that's definitely progress. |
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Man's not svelte. But yeah, anything that can keep him from dying at his desk in the next 5 years is to be commended. |
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