Missouri is legitimately good, but you are overrating the A&M victory. Manziel was a banged up shell of himself who couldn't run or throw anywhere close to his normal ability.

I agree with you about the skill position players and the DEs as a unit, but the LBers and safeties are a decided weakness. Wilson doesn't have the athleticism to play his position.

If Florida was 11-1 and Missouri was 4-8 would people be saying that the SEC is having a down year?

It's really too bad that the automatic qualifier conferences can't have more than two teams, but that's a shortcoming of the BCS system. For this season, the fact that the smouldering wreck of the Big East is still automatic qualifier is a joke.

It will sting for Missouri to get left out while UCF gets in because of the moronic BCS structure if that's the way it plays out. But with the playoff coming and the future bright for our program, I don't think it's that big of a deal. Either you are in the title game or you're not.

I am going to sit this one out because I am a UCF Knight.

Ask Saul, he is the only one I'm aware of that makes these type of arguments.

I thought we were challenged plenty. OM had the ball inside the 20 three different times and got no points. Mizzou to their credit answered all of them.

IDK about FSU. They haven't played a defense yet worth anything but they look the part.

Aub has as impressive a resume as anyone in CFB.

Manziel didn't look himself...there must be something to him being hurt. Regardless MU held him to his lowest total yardage output to date & I largely agree w/ what you said about that game & the Vandy game.

You have to see the BCS for what it is. It doesn't pit ALL of the best teams due to the qualifiers. That's not to say it isn't a great accomplishment to get there but getting left out so to speak doesn't necessarily speak to the type of season one team had vs another or who's better.

It's not really comparable to '07 as MU wouldn't have beaten either school in that scenario.

It's exactly and perfectly comparable. Identical in fact. If Auburn gets leapfrogged by Alabama it's 2007 all over again. What will the SEC do?

Oh...well it is for them. I was just thinking from MU's POV sorry. I'm sure Bammer would jump them. Why should I care?

It is not exactly comparable. Even after MU lost in the Big 12 Championship game they were still ranked ahead of KU in all the polls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NC...tball_rankings

Exactly the point, nobody cares. Just like nobody cared in 2007. There is no secret conspiracy by the conferences, no secret buyouts or bribes by bowl officials

The schools involved care, we wouldn't be in that scenario.

Conspiracy? That's absurd but ticket guarantees happen routinely. It's not a conspiracy nor was it unique to KU & the OB in '07 (I can't tell for sure if you're comment has to do w/ KU's supposed 30k ticket guarantee or whatever it was), but it's how business is done in that regard. Schools regularly guarantee an allotment of ticket purchases for a bowl game whether they can actually sell them or not. In fact I would venture to say it happens in the case of every bowl it's written into the contracts, just a matter of haggling on the #'s.

Obviously it's conjecture if that is what tipped the scales in KU's favor to get that bid. No one will ever actually be able to prove that one way or the other but it would or could certainly be enough motivation for a bowl to pick one school over another depending on circumstances that they necessarily wouldn't have otherwise. It would speak to Alden and the MU AD as a whole getting beat to the punch by Perkins and the KU AD if it did occur and frankly wouldn't surprise me although to be honest that's driven in part by my less than sterling opinion of Mike Alden.

Too many people don't understand or accept how bowls work and also have bought into this BCS end all bill of goods. Is Central Fla better than Mich St b/c the latter will be in the CapOne and the former the Sugar?! Or South Carolina who beat them but will be in the CapOne or Outback Bowl! Obviously not.

Exactly. Missouri was ranked ahead of Kansas in the BCS and beat Kansas head to head, which is the root of the controversy. PB doesn't seem to remember that.

how convenient

The winner of the SEC title game is the national champ in my mind

Eyeballin' it again?

That is probably why he has ignored it

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xFWlIcOb2I0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Auburn beat Ala head to head so that's already addressed. If you're saying head to head doesn't matter now as with this, then that's a new argument I never heard in 2007.

Obviously there's the division win plus the fact Auburn has to go play again while Bama sits home arguments. Got those covered. So we are left with polls. We don't know what the polls will be yet so it's speculation. I'll go along that Auburn will likely fall below but it won't be by much at all and it's tight just like 2007. The situations can't be more similar.

No. I was making the opposite point in highlighting the irony of Big 12 supporters using that argument against the SEC. The Big 12 doesn't suck because Baylor and Oklahoma State are dominating. The Big 12 sucks because your biggest programs have been in decline for several years, its top teams get hammered in bowl games, it doesn't have a single signature out of conference win in years, and it has a ton of absolute garbage at the bottom.

I'll take eyeballs over Sagarin or any other system that has NIU ranked #2 (or ASU #3).

If Auburn is higher in the BCS rankings and is passed over for an at-large bid, then it would be similar. Since that isn't going to happen, they aren't.

I'm still waiting for a justification of Arizona State being third and ****ing Washington being #12 in Sagarin.

He has none, his arguments are as weak as his team against an FBS school.

Even blind people know the SEC is king.

FTFY

Not as exciting or epic as KU winning their first confernce game since Colorado./ PB and Wickedson

3-40 is am awesome conference record

Baylor is a joke because they have a tarp.

How the...? Arizona State has two losses, one of which is to Stanford who is ranked higher.

And the aforementioned ****ing Washington, not even ranked, has 4 losses :drool:

The ****?

Espn is trying their damnest to get Alabama in the title game

Two of Washington's losses are by three or more touchdowns (21 & 29 points). Bitch won't explain Sagarin's failures, but that won't stop him from preaching his gospel the next time it suits him.

Just when I think you can't outdo stupid, you do it again Saul. The PAC is the best conf in football that's why the data is what it is. ASU aint beating up on the weak sisters of the SEC-E.


Not going to argue about computers with people who don't understand the topic. Statisticians retrofit the data to line up with actual results it's extremely accurate, just like polling data is.

OhSt & Fla St would have to lose.

Otherwise they have no shot.

Considering the odds of Fla St losing is akin to the possibility that I could win the powerball this week it's not really a conversation worth having unless it actually happens.

The one that will be had is an undefeated Oh St from their garbage league who will have played 1 top ten team (and a sketchy one at that) vs a 1 loss SEC Champ.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/notebook/_/pa...nal-title-game

LMAO what a frickin joke...

Nothing says "sound statistical analysis" like reverse engineering formulas to give you your predetermined result. Tell me you believe that Arizona State is the third best team in the country. Tell me they are better than Alabama. Tell me that 8-4 Washington...a team with three double digit losses (including 21 & 29 point blowouts)...is better than all but eleven teams.

Prison Bitch in DC: You can't trust those computers that show global warming to be a global threat.

Prison Bitch in the lounge: The computers are gospel.

There's no shame in losing at Stanford but losing to Notre Dame is pretty bad and considering it's a second loss should keep any team from being ranked that high. The other thing about ASU is that they won a game they shouldn't have won (Wisc) which is inflating their #'s. If I had a vote I'd be taking that into consideration ranking them.

As for Wash they got hammered in all but one of their losses and don't really have any marquee wins. Looking at their schedule losing to a bunch of good teams is probably driving them being ranked higher than they ought be.

It's nothing I haven't said before. I like computer polls, they take bias out and make you think about teams maybe a little differently than you would otherwise but they're just a tool, there isn't one that exists that's perfect. ASU & Wash highlight that. Marrying yourself to those results regardless can paint you into a corner.

It's just speculation which isn't completely out of left field considering they are still ahead of us this week.

That said if MU wins they will jump Bammer. I think it is a virtual certainty, they are ahead of us by a pretty slim margin.

...

Your concessions amuse me not.

http://replygif.net/thumbnail/1197.gif

Not at all. I think it is all for not because the other teams will win but if OSU loses and Missouri wins Mizzou will be lining up for a national championship.

Hilarious stuff right here. You're now reduced to making things up. I guess that's all you've got left. I'm fascinated though to find out more about my views on global warming so don't leave me hanging!

You can look at Vegas lines as well, they too are extremely accurate. I don't discuss them very often because they're on a game basis and not a composite rank. For these discussion here and on TV studios computers should be given 90% weight and polls 10% at most. Computers and Vegas utterly annihilate polls in predictive ability and the research is crystal clear on that.



If anyone thinks polls are accurate, just watch the Heisman ceremony. See the regional vote breakdown. Laugh when you see the blatant bias. Why would people trust their team voting any better?

Vegas lines are rarely "right". They are simply good at missing each direction an equal number of times over the long run. Computers are the same way. If you take everything in aggregate, they tend to be correct. In the short term, they are extremely unreliable because they are susceptible to outliers (Washington, Arizona State, etc.).

Relying on them to be accurate on an individual basis is about as smart as flipping a coin ten times and, when it comes up heads seven times, declaring that heads is definitively a more likely outcome in coin flips.

Computer models sacrifice accuracy for precision. Even in the long term (especially in the long term), this is true. If it weren't true, the computers would agree with one another.

They are higher than Alabama, beat them and won that division. In your mind that proves they are better. In the minds of Vegas they'd be 10 point dogs if they replayed it. I'll take their opinion over yours no offense.

If Auburn loses to Mizzou, they will be ranked higher than Alabama? Interesting.

Prison Bitch. Not holding up well in this thread.

Why the **** are you bringing me up?

Get a life man.

Perhaps the 2,000 posts you have in the realignment threads have something to do with it.

huh? Comparing KU and MU celebrations? Believe me, I've had plenty to celebrate in my life as a KU fan. Good to see you guys getting some at last.

Gotta cast a wide net. :D

LOL. Local fans upset that Jack isn't paying enough attention to them.

JACK'S SMACK: Mizzou as SEC champs has a nice ring to it

Read more: http://www.kshb.com/dpp/sports/jacks...#ixzz2mRAq4XxL

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - I posted what I thought was a rather innocuous tweet Saturday night congratulating the Missouri Tigers on their win over Texas A&M. The tweet read “SEC East Champs! Way to go Missouri Tigers. Atlanta here we come!”

I can't believe the hatred and jealousy and vitriol one single tweet could generate. I can only assume many of you still are having a difficult time accepting the fact Missouri defected and left you behind.

The SEC has a very elite selection process in bringing aboard new members. What seems to be most painful to MU detractors is the fact Missouri is enjoying unprecedented success after only two seasons in what is recognized as the best football conference in America.

The mere fact that Missouri has put itself in position to play for a national championship is beyond comprehension for many, including this reporter. I'll never understand all the hostility against this football program.

It’s hard to fathom how a state line can poison so many minds.

Missouri is a really good team. I'm not being biased. It's fact.

The only loss was in double overtime to a top 10 team. The Tigers just took down the Heisman trophy winner.

Regardless of your allegiance and loyalty, it’s difficult to overlook the accomplishments of Missouri this season.

Picked to finish next to last in the division, Mizzou is playing for a prize that few thought would even be possible.

Even for the MU haters, you must admit, “SEC champions” sure has a nice ring to it.

That’s Jack’s Smack.

Pretty ironic smack from Jack Harry, who was negative on the SEC thing and has been regarded as an MU hater in the past.

The negative reaction he's getting might be butthurt Big Whatever fans, or it might be MU fans who don't have any use for him any longer.

They were probably pissed off that he didn't congratulate Kansas on their third place finish in a basketball tournament played in a hotel conference room. There were several people in attendance...mostly cleaning ladies who were waiting to tidy up for the Avon convention taking place there the next morning.

Every fan isn't this way, but to many Saturday represents a real problem for MU haters. If we win we will have won something significant which the school hasn't done in football in most of our lifetimes and in basketball 20 years. The football program will never be viewed the same should we win Sat. We be the first school not among the "Big 6" to have won a SEC title since Kentucky shared one in '76 and outright I think you have to go back to Ole Miss in the early 60's & would represent a tremendous breakthrough that will do wonders for our recruiting, $ support, perception, etc. And if we lose it's no different than Mississippi State, Arkansas, & South Carolina who have all played for and lost SEC title games in the past 2 decades. The game is monumental & that's not even getting into the national implications. The haters won't be able to say we've never won anything. So a bunch of replies like that to Jack Harry ain't all that surprising. I'm guessing a lot of them are scared. IDK if MU is going to win (frankly after all of the disappointments over the years I'll have to see it to believe it) but this team is built to do so. It's built from the inside out rather than the gimmicky video game '07 version which was a very good team & fun to watch but not championship caliber.

Well, the haters every step of the way have been naysaying and proven wrong. "Missouri doesn't have any offers", "The SEC doesn't want them", "They won't be able to compete now that they're in the big boy conference", etc. This will be the last of it. Winning the conference ahead of schedule would finally put the argument to bed about whether Missouri belongs with Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, etc. Winning the East really puts it to bed, but the loss would remove any cover remaining for haters.

The whole narrative from 810, KU fans, etc., was that we needed the Big 12 more than the Big 12 needed us, that the conference was really upgraded after losing Missouri, Texas A&M, and Nebraska. All of them said we'd be sorry, some said we'd be begging to be let back into the Big 12 in a few years. Now things really are looking like the SEC pillaged the Big 12, especially with the "quality" of the replacement schools.

It's jealousy. Missouri fans have been jealous of other schools' accomplishments in some respects or at some times of the year in the past, that isn't exactly groundbreaking. You can't expect fans whose school didn't get any sniffs in the realignment saga not to feel miffed about it.

No, the narrative switches to "aTm and Mizzou were bottom tier teams in the Big 12. The SEC is clearly overrated if those two schools win games in their first two years in the conference."

I don't think people are that stupid/intellectually lazy. MU has been improving for quite a while, even though injuries last year made that more difficult to see. It's pretty clear that this Mizzou team wouldn't have had much trouble in the Big Bevo.

That would be laughable, since half the conference is ranked.

No question it's a two way street and human nature.

Also, I think DT is right in that some will attempt to advance that argument but as you said it will be laughable should it come to pass.

I think Ole Miss beating Texas by 1,000 in Austin pretty much drove a stake through the heart of that meme (especially since Texas has gone 7-1 in the Big 12).

lol, Jack still can't let KU go.

Well if you lose what will you have won?

I always find it amusing that the only subject on which MU and KU fans can sit down at the table of brotherhood and agree about is that the on-air personalities at 810 are morons.

Orange Bowl
Sugar Bowl
Big 8
Big 12 north
SEC east

No clue what your point is here. Yes sometimes a team wins by more than the spread and sometimes by less. But we are taking standard error from the target and Vegas (and your buddy Sagarin) set excellent targets. Targets that retrofit extremely close to the outcomes.

Georgia State or whoever they were getting their first ever D1 win at the Swamp of all places drives a stake into the heart of the notion the SEC-E is any good.

Wait, I think I read an MU fan say haters (ie me) are "jealous". Wow. That's amazing hubris. I wouldn't have wished your sports experience as a fan on my worst enemy. Jealous, lulz.

It would still be an excellent season & has already dispelled the myth we can't compete but it wouldn't be a championship one & wouldn't be any different than what they did in the Big 12. Winning the league would change the program's perception locally & nationally & be quite a breakthrough.

Retrofit...I like that. It sounds better than saying "when we get proven wrong, we just change the formulas after the fact and claim we are right".

Personally, I can predict the winners of every major sporting event in history that has ever been played.

Are you talking about the Gators that are in 10th place in the SEC? That's the difference between the SEC and the Big Dozen(ish)...crap teams in the SEC get pounded in conference play. In the Big 12, they finish in the top half of the conference.

That's not remotely what that refers to, and your second comment might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board.

Cherry picking one team that is well below their historical average doesn't help your argument.

Obviously, the comment refers to being jealous of the specific accomplishments being spoken of. Missouri's putting themselves within 1 win of playing for a national championship in football this season, and of being chosen to move up to the SEC.

I'm guessing that's why you didn't quote the post, since the point of this post was just to mischaracterize what I said.

Yes obviously winning the league would be a huge accomplishment. Missouri hasn't done that since the old Big 8 days.

The only way to be truly accepted in whichever sport you choose to compete at the highest level in is to bust down the door. I think the current state of "disrespect" MU is getting by fellow SEC members and nationally right now was to be expected.

It will take a win to change that perception. Hopefully the Tigers fang et it done Saturday.

You and other MU fans seem to be the only ones carrying this "jealousy" banner. I understand you're on a high right now but please understand that no one is jealous of you in the Big 12. At least no one I've come in contact with.

Nobody twirling glow sticks and popping Mollies in New York is talking Mizzou football? Shocking

If.youre feeling down then go visit ShaggyBevo then

Many haters don't want us to win b/c they want us in the toilet forever. It can't be lorded over that we've never won anything if we do, blah blah blah. That would be the very definition of a hater especially considering we're not in the same league anymore.

It's not a personal statement so no need for the individual defenses. I didn't mention anyone by name (nor did the guy who replied to me) in this thread by design b/c mostly it's people screwing around and none of us know each other. PB inserting himself and then mentioning hubris was deliciously ironic (unless of course he was talking about something else in which case I'm mistaken). But we all come in contact w/ the haters day to day at work/church/etc or see them in other places either online or on the radio, etc.

And then there are fans that don't care and some that are rooting for us b/c we've not won squat in ages.

Plenty of MU fans LOL'g the other night when KU lost to whomever it was in hoops. That I assure you. In fact I only knew about it b/c it was posted on our rivals board as I don't pay attention to hoops of any sort prior to conference play outside of the Braggin' Rights game.

I have had KU fans tell me to a man the gleeful text messages were flying during our 4th quarter collapse against South Carolina. No different.

Ya I think it's b/c people have an inflated view what it necessarily means to say one league like the SEC is better than the Big 12 (which isn't even true every season). We weren't jumping from the Big East to the Big 12 (a much bigger leap, the latter of which is always better than the former). We competed in the Big 12, no reason to think we wouldn't compete in the SEC but many thought we'd be the new Kentucky or Vanderbilt. Our problems last year were football centric, not conference centric but perception being what it was it was fuel to the fire.