Didn't Hank Stram invent the 3-4?

IIRC, he invented the 'triple stack' defense where three linebackers lined up behind the three d-linemen, with the NT lining up directly to the center.

I would have the feeling that defense would get ****in ran all over in this modern day game.

Pioli turned down job interviews. Dimitroff did not.

thanks for the clarification, not much of an X and O guy, still trying to understand it after 40 years of watching them. :D


You really think so, with the talent they had on that team? Bobby Bell and Willy Lanier were everywhere!

Man, I remember the Falcon D, more for when DT was hurt and Pollom "played" that position. Guh.

The first team I ever remember running the 3-4 was the Houston Oilers in the early/mid 70s. If I remember right, Curley Culp was the first-ever nose tackle.


Some teams in the 50s and maybe earlier ran a 5-2 defense, so maybe they had a nose tackle position, too. Les Bingaman comes to mind as a 300-lber who played over the center in those days, but he had other linemen beside him.

I think you are right. I think Adolph went with 2 DTs - Saleamua and Phillips.

Now, yes with the big mamouth Olinemen that are out there now. Now you would have big 300 + lb guards get into that 2nd level of LB's and would plant people like Ray Lewis and Urlacher on their ass.

I would seem to think anyways....

Yep, you're right. Adolph was a 4-3 guy.

Nope, that was much later - 1997 in fact. The Falcon was a hybrid 4-3/3-4 look.

No, Stram invented the 4-4 stack.

Bum Phillips and Chuck Fairbanks were the progenitors of the 3-4.

I really love how Mecca came in here to admit he was wrong about the Chiefs never running a 3-4. Shocking.

Not sure why I was inspired to bump this thread...

2 more scores to go!!!!!!!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

I bumped it because I am bored.

boy was I wrong

If you're bored, I just bumped a thread in the Hall of Classics that will give you a good idea of what Chiefsplanet is all about.

NostraHamas.

lolz this thread is ripe with dumbassery

LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

All wrong, all night long...:shake:

Damn, I sure got told...

Still waiting....

Improving team>>>>>Regressing team

And the Prophecy was fulfilled...

Oh Stevie Ray Elvis; will you share your peanut butter and bacon sandwich with us?

Magic 8-Ball says, "FAIL".

Enjoy your long hair, Mecca.

But...but...the Patriot Way...

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

FAILFAILFAILFAILFAILGOTO20FAILFAILFAILFAIL
End of Line

He signed a contract.

:clap:ME.

Okee day!

Mother**** YOU, Scott Pioli.

You don't say?

I'd be more than happy to give you a bite of your sandwich.

ROFL

KU takes Safeties, and loves them.

Ouch.

Don't forget the jelly!

...when are you going to come and get it?

You don't deliver? What if I thrown a jar of Pomade and a bag of glittering rhinestones?

nope, you're gonna have to come get it...it's bring your own steak week at the tailgate..come on out and get some meat.

I bet you say that to all the boys.

just you....I'm flattered Elvis means so much to you.

Viva Las Vegas!

Is this where Mecca tells us the Chiefs never ran a 34 defense before?

3000 Miles to Graceland

Id like to see a "celebrity deathmatch" (remember that mtv show?) between Elvis and Scott Pioli.

Ho boy. Love it when people use hindsight to make their arguments. I don't apologize for anything I said there. I was wrong, but I didn't say anything outrageous. I was deadset against Aaron Curry and to this day, I still believe that this was one of the worst top 5's in the history of draft classes. Curry, Sanchez, Monroe, Crabtree, and Raji were the only guys that were slated as top 5 potential players. And of those, Raji and Crabtree are the only ones I maybe regret not drafting (and that's a very loose regret for Crabtree). When people complain about not getting guys like Harvin or Moreno or Maclin, you're talking about players who fell more than 10-20 spots--that's a pretty massive reach. But in the hindsight game, it sounds like a great point. Tyson Jackson is starting to play a little bit better. And you don't expect a player like him to hit his stride until his 2nd or 3rd year. We won't know how well we did with this pick until next season or in 2011. Anyone who expects anything otherwise is being unrealistic.

To the second point, I know I was wrong with Stafford. I didn't like him, but I think he's got a bright future. While the Chiefs may have ****ed up on Cassel, the Chiefs needed a QB and their option was either to draft Sanchez, trade for Cassel, or start Thigpen. None of those options are looking any more attractive than the other right now. The Cassel thing looks like a ****-up in hindsight, but I'm still not convinced that there was any better, obvious alternative. Because if we handed $36M in guarantees to Sanchez, we'd be in the same position we are today.

The arguments were made back in April.

And it looks like the guys getting laughed at and bash for it were right on the goddamn money.

saying you were happy with dumping money on cassel and drafting jackson at 3 isn't using hindsight to make my argument. it was ****ing stupid then.

I'm still trying to figure out how I didn't post in this thread.

I know I was busy...but maybe I just knew better.

Im kinda disapointed in you on this one man. IMHO you should have stuck to your guns. Even if you are wrong in time, you shouldnt abandon ship so quickly on your beliefs. JMO

Time will tell

A rookie season a career not make...

A year from now, you could have hung your hat on that one if it plays out differently that current perception from here on out.

I think you were on vacation.

First of all, you have no idea what we're going to get out of Jackson. We had these same dumb arguments about Dorsey last season when he was getting pushed around like a stuffed animal. Judging that pick after 1 season is ridiculous. And yes, when people rip on the Jackson pick and then bitch about a guy we should have took that was taken 10-20 picks later, that's using hindsight.

I still don't mind dumping money on Cassel. It doesn't look like it will work out, but given that the alternative was Sanchez, I'm not convinced we did any better or worse at this point. Now, if the Chiefs don't aggressively go after some backup plan at QB this offseason, then I'll be angry. As long as they didn't blatantly miss out on a better alternative, who really cares if they ****ed up? His contract is essentially a 3-year contract, so you bring someone else in and you move on.

Pretty much.

Yeah, who cares if they ****ed up?

It's only another 5 years of shitty football.

I love it when people call arguments made in real-time 'hindsight' because they get brought up later and shoved down their throats.

And as for Cassel, don't beat yourself up too badly. You're wrong about almost everything you ever say, so there's no reason to get choked up about this one particular time you felt compelled to talk out your ass.

I still say this team is better overall with drafting Sanchez. We could easily signed a vet like Kitna to take the reigns for the whole year or hell to the bye week.

Bullshit. We know EXACTLY what we're getting with Jackson: He's a 5 tech defensive end that makes absolutely NO impact. The ONLY way Jackson can impact a game is by swallowing up blockers which allows the linebackers to make plays.

Unfortunately, the Chiefs don't have any linebackers, besides Hali. And furthermore, just as suspected, Jackson is a ****ing TWO DOWN PLAYER.

Sure. Because Sanchez, a 22 year-old rookie that definitely struggled at times and may lead his team to the playoffs, would be a worse alternative.

You live in the land of Unicorns and Rainbows.

Or you're just a verbose ****ing dumbass that likes to read your own words.

At this point, it was either make a 3-year mistake on Cassel or make what I think is a 3-year mistake on Sanchez. ****ing up when there isn't any better alternative is a different story.

I'm not pissed about it right now. A QB move had to be made. Like I said, I'll be a lot more pissed off if the Chiefs don't bring in a QB in 2010 and Cassel still doesn't look like a QBOTF.

so anytime anybody is ever wrong about anything are you just going to play the hindsight card?

the pick was ****ing stupid in April, the minute the ****ing pick was anounced it was ****ing stupid thats what this thread is all about.

oh its not just about sanchez either. i said it right in this thread the day of the pick, the pick was stupid and i didnt even want sanchez. this has nothing to do with sanchez, it has to do with the people who we're sucking off pioli the DAY OF the draft and acting like we just won the lottery even though all the signs were there the DAY OF the draft that it was ****ing idiotic

Christ, this team might have been better with Josh ****ing Freeman.

And that's coming from someone who wanted NO PART of drafting him.

BJ Raji would also be a two-down player. And give me a ****ing break, his job would have been largely to swallow up blockers too. Maybe teams shouldn't take a Left Tackle, since their only job is to swallow up pass rushers so QBs and RBs can make plays.


He certainly hasn't proven to be a better alternative. And you're on crack if you think the Jets are on track because of Sanchez. Kellen Clemens led the Jets to a similar ass-raping of the Bucs last week in Sanchez's absence with the same exact formula--play great defense, run the ball down the other team's throat, and don't ask too much of your QB. Mark Sanchez's role = Damon Huard's role in 2006.

Right now, Sanchez holds the ball like a loaf of bread, is even worse at holding on to the ball too long, hasn't proven he can throw a good ball in the conditions, and is struggling with the vanilla playbook he is operating in. Maybe he gets better over time, but right now, I have seen absolutely nothing from him that indicates that he's the answer to anything.

No. If you wanted Sanchez, Raji, or Crabtree instead of Jackson, that's fine. But when people start talking about alternatives to Jackson that fell well past #3, that's using hindsight as an argument.

And you have no ****ing idea if Jackson was a good/bad pick. He's a rookie for christ sake.

If Jackson plays to a very high level next year, while it may never end up being a great pick, it certainly won't be a bad pick.

Who gives a shit about BJ Raji? The topic of the conversation is Tyson Jackson.

JFC. All you do is deflect.


Then you're a ****ing dumbshit, plain and simple.

No one expects Sanchez to be Peyton Manning. But he's clearly capable of handling himself on the NFL field. IMO (and in the opinion of most that wanted him at #3), he shouldn't have seen the field this year: He should have spent at least 8 games on the sidelines, if not the entire 16 games. He's 22 and has a MUCH higher ceiling than Cassel.

If you can't see that Sanchez has all of the tools to become a successful NFL QB, then you're blind.

Which wouldn't be surprising considering your takes around here.

If you can't tell that Jackson should have NEVER been drafted at #3 overall, your Chiefsplanet account should be immediately revoked.

It looks like I was the only smart and rational person in this thread. :D

Yes I do.

It was a ****ing awful pick.

A franchise-alteringly bad pick.

It was a firing offense.

Time will bear this out, but for right now you'll just have to accept the fact that you're a good 2 years behind the curve on all things football related.

I do, however, look forward to your stirring monologue on how invading the Chinese mainland in 1945 would be a grand idea.

KC would have destroyed his career. He's better off where he is.

If you're going to rip on a team for taking Tyson Jackson, you better have a viable alternative. And right now, the majority of alternatives I hear are players who were taken 10-20 picks later. Criticizing a team for reaching, then saying they should have reached for another player instead is ridiculous. Like I said, the only alternatives to Jackson at that draft value were Sanchez, Curry, Crabtree, and Raji. I'm not upset at taking the first two. Don't know how I feel about Crabtree's attitude. The only guy I would have taken, and I've said this from day 1, is Raji.

Sanchez does have all the tools.

Except that he has shown shaky pocket presence, complete carelessness with holding the ball like a loaf of bread, an inability to read defenses, a deep lob ball that floats around in all kinds of different directions in windy conditions, the problem of holding onto the ball too long. If you're clinging to the belief that Sanchez is capable of handling the NFL after struggling in a very, very, very simplified version of an offense, then you're blind too. Like I said, 2009 Sanchez = 2006 Damon Huard.

As of right now, I think Freeman is easily playing like the 2nd best QB in this class. I agree with you on this one. But that would have been a monumental reach.

almost as bad as jackson at 3

I would rather have Jackson than Freeman.

the funny thing is, if we were drafting at 17 we still would have our choice of either

I just don't understand how everything is so obvious but yet so hard to fix? Everybody knew how suckledge our O-line was last year yet we didn't address it in the draft we got FA Goff instead who I think Pioli thought was still going to be good at his age. We had to have a make shift O-line this whole season and I guess they have played better the last two games even though it didn't matter cuz our WRs dropped balls and our QB threw a bunch of INts. The QB gets a break dousn't matter if he sucks or not excuses excuses excuses but he is our guy. It's a bunch of should of would of or could of done to make this team better.


It's hard to say if Tyson Jackson is going to be anything at this point, kind of early in his career I hope so for this teams sake. Was he worth it at that spot I don't think so other than the need for the 34 defense but WTF.

Jesus.

I'm not saying we should have taken Freeman, only that we wouldn't be any worse off if we had.

Looks to me as if Wallace Gilberry was a very viable alternative, especially considering he was ALREADY ON THE ROSTER. Alex Magee in the third is a viable alternative as well.

JFC. Urine idiot.

Again, more foolishness.

Why you expected Sanchez to be a superior NFL QB in his first season is beyond me and all on you. He has the tools, he just needs the experience. He'll be a much better QB in 2010 and beyond.

You make too much sense. Why did I ignore you this past off-season?

I didnt like the pick at 3, but this statement is dead wrong.

Days after the draft, Singletary was the guest on NFLN and he said he had TJ pegged for their pick. He also said that the Crabtree pick was the GMs call and that he wanted a defensive player.

The Browns came out and said he would have been their pick.

TJ was a reach, but not as big of one as some make it out to be. NO WAY he would have made it to 17. NONE.

I believe my preference was Orakpo...Crabtree...Monroe...Raji...Mauluaga in that order. The TJ pick totally blindsided me, but to be honest I wasnt thrilled or disapointed in it because it seems he has the mentality and work ethic to become a very very good player and the fact that his presence should bolster the attitude of Dorsey added some increased value to the pick.

The 09 draft was an anomaly because about every top prospect had big question marks. One only has to look at the vast list of underclassmen qbs to be taken in the first round to see that Mark Sanchez was a huge risk pick...add in the fact that he only started 15 college games and that put him in a small class (him and Akili Smith) as underclassmen qbs with only one year of experience. The chance of the pick fruiting a all pro calibur qb was slim in my opinion.

time will tell who was right and who was wrong in this debate, it is far from finished.

Hamas issues his Fatwa...

Apparently, I rubbed you the wrong way.

That happens quite frequently when debating with DaneMcCloud.

:evil:

Perhaps you should consider rubbing people the right way...*porn music*

haha thats true. To be fair one of the guys I wanted was Bj Raji which would have been a better pick than Tyson Jackson.

I wanted no part of Cassel, hated the Jackson pick so much I started this thread, absolutely loved Stafford (I was the biggest Stafford fan on this board, just ask OTW), loved Sanchez, and said we should pick Maclin if we don't take a QB @ 3.

This was all posted long before the draft. I used absolutely no hindsight, nor did any of the "drafturbators" who were bashed for calling a spade a spade.

I pretty much share your beliefs completely.

Bunch of could have would have, should have, could have, when we don't if the FAs would have, Too early to tell which pick we should have, and don't know what this season honestly could have.

Hand fulls of hindsight, a sprinkle of premature, and shitload of kneejerk.

You absolutely have stuck to those beliefs.

And I'm glad we didn't pick Sanchez.
I'm also pissed that we gave that $ to Cassel, but I don't think he'll get more than next season to prove he can win.

Uh, not me.

A QB is WAY more valuable than a ****ing 5-tech.

I disagree further more. Freeman is junk and as soon as next year starts and teams will have had a few game tapes to study, they will take away what he wants to do and he will be the next first round busted qb. I could be wrong, but I have had this thought about him all along.

I think Cassel will end up a better qb next year and beyond than Mr Freeman. I severely dislike MC so far (and NEVER FOR A SECOND WANTED HIM) and am not optomistic about his "ceiling" but can see some things from him recently that point to baby steps in the right direction. He speaks with Tom Brady once per week to deal with the pressure and I think he is mentally strong enough to weather this early storm. He has a work ethic good enough to work through his mistakes and progress in years to come and that is the biggest thing you want to see early on in a young qb.

I wonder what they saw in TJ that made them, and other teams, have him jump up boards in the last few days prior to the draft...had to be something significant that hasnt had light shed on it yet.

No offense but I really don't care what you "think".

A first round QB has FAR more value than a 5-tech defensive end. Period.

That's all one needs to know.

If either player were to be traded tomorrow, who do you think would fetch a higher draft choice?

Quite honestly, I don't think they saw shit. The guy was only Second-Team All-America last season, yet he went #3 overall. I think Pioli knows only ONE WAY to build a football team and he's following that blueprint.

Regardless of what was already in place in Kansas City.

"Doesn't make a damn whether you think a QB will bust or not."" YOU TAKE HIM"!