This logic is flawed.

A WR1 is still more "valuable" than a WR2 that can play RB too.

I think so many of you are missing this aspect of team building and roster construction. It's not debatable, Aiyuk is 100% their WR1, and you don't choose your WR2 over your WR1 all things even. If Deebo is the significantly cheaper option, then that's a reason, but not "versatility".

So you're really going to try and argue that the players know better?

LMAO

There's not a single exec, coach, or scout that would've ever preferred Lamar over Pat at any time. There were many players, and probably even some that still would. Players have absolutely no ****ing clue in comparison to execs, coaches, and scouts.

You think Kadarius Toney's opinion matters more than Veach and Reid? LMAO

Probably should be on the list somewhere. I think it probably points to how the player is valued by peers more than just ‘is this guy a prototypical position player?’

I mean, who knows how players think? Or any of these guys. Maybe it's just a function of how much primetime they get.

Amon-Ra should've easily made the Pro-Bowl but wasn't selected. Only the AP paid enough attention to select him to the All-Pro first team offense.


A few years ago, iirc, Mike Evans said in a presser that Jameis Winston was an elite QB.


Stuff like that makes me seriously question just how discerning most players really are.

Neither players or management are infallible. Just like you and me. You think any of the executives, coaches, or scouts really do some soul searching for an espn survey? Like they’ve got some big board and are debating whether copper kupp is 1% worse than Aiyuk?

Your opinion is Aiyuk is more valuable than Deebo. Nice, that’s great - don’t be such a **** about it.

Could be a little bit of that. I don’t know if the media knows what makes a better player than other players or coaches or scouts. Might be a better unbiased ranking for that season’s performance. There needs to be some kind of metacritic score that piles it all together. Except for the fans opinions.

That's not the argument. Coaches, execs, and scouts still have a much better idea of where those guys rank than players. That's just a fact.

Also, Virus literally said that not a single exec would choose Aiyuk over Deebo. That's why I posted that. Keep up.

Decades ago, I believed that a lot of the sports journalists out there were decent evaluators of player talent. These days not so much. But they do have the benefit of not having a real stake in the players, which you can't say about their teammates.


I would tend to think that GMs and scouts would have a better idea of who is better than who though. They should, you would think anyway.

Well it’s difficult to debate an argument I can’t even read but if you say it, I suppose I stand corrected.

.. though I do find that absurd. Who would put Aiyuk in their top 10 by any metric?

Tyreek Hill
Justin Jefferson
Amon-Ra St Brown
AJ Brown
Ceedee Lamb
Jamarr Chase
Davante Adams

I don’t think anyone would argue that these guys are automatically better than Aiyuk.

Nico Collins, DJ Moore, and Puka Nacua all outproduced Aiyuk with worse QBs on worse offense with fewer weapons. They’re mostly younger than Aiyuk as well.

Mike Evans, Keenan Allen, Stefon Diggs and Amari Cooper are all older than Aiyuk but had near-enough production despite sometimes having worse QB situations.

DK Metcalf, Terry Mclaurin, Chris Olave, George Pickens, Cooper Kupp.. hell, is Aiyuk any better than Chris Godwin? Lol.

Having him top 10 is crazy to me.

I like Pittman.

I wanted the Chiefs to trade for him.


But under even the best rankings of any kind he falls somewhere between 25 and 30 of all NFL receivers.

Your definition of "alpha" is what is hilarious. The **** does that mean, catch a lot of passes? So was Michael Thomas the alpha you wanted?


It's such a dumb, arbitrary term. An alpha just means WR1, out here changing whole games with his play. That's Ja'marr Chase first and foremost. That's what an 'alpha' is, if forced to use that idiotic term.

I agree Debo will come cheaper than Aiyuk and that’s one of the reasons I think SF if they have to choose, will keep Debo.

I think this is a good discussion, but it’s a little unclear what we’re debating.

I think there’s a general consensus. Debo is more important.

I think there’s a general consensus Aiyuk is a better WR, but if Debo ever has a season like he has several years ago, that would be a hard argument to sustain.

There are split views on who they would choose to keep if they have to make that choice.

And then there are different perspectives on what the word “value “means. But I think that’s too subjective to really matter.

To me the key issue is, who will they choose if they have to choose. And I think the split views will continue on that. And clearly it’s a very hard choice. Both of them are great players and key components of the San Francisco offense.

I read a few pages from yesterday. I'm with Staylor Aiyuk is more valuable and should be prioritized. I'm surprised there's even an argument for deebo. He's just a high end gadget.

Uh, think you got some of your math and your QB evaluations wrong here.

First of all, pretty much everyone on your list above had significantly more targets than Aiyuk.

In Tyreek's/CeeDee Lamb's/Nacua's/AJ Brown's/Keenan Allen's and J. Chase's cases, they all saw anywhere from 45-75 more targets than Aiyuk last season.

And yet, only five of them had more total receiving yards.


Only G. Pickens had a higher Y/A.

Only Tyreek and Lamb had more receiving plays over 20 yards. They both had 29, Aiyuk had 28. So big diff there.

And not for nothing, but just exactly how did Nico Collins out-perform Aiyuk? He had nearly 50 fewer yards, a lower Yards per catch average, fewer big plays and fewer 1st downs. Please shed some light on this one.


And how are you evaluating QBs these days? Case in point, just how on God's green Earth do you put Purdy above Matt Stafford? Purdy above Stroud? I mean, I get Purdy had a really good year statistically (echoes of Alex Smith's 2017 season), but I doubt any scout/GM would say that Purdy was a better QB than Stafford.

That's just silly. And don't give me the "Purdy was statistically better," BS. If that's your premise, then by that reasoning, Purdy is better than Mahomes. Which is just ridiculous. Obviously.


As for this line:


No to DK (didn't outperform Aiyuk in any meaningful way), no to Terry, just lol to Olave and Pickens, Kupp may not ever get to his former HoF self (but I'm a Kupp fan so I'll give you this one) and Godwin?

I like Godwin, but just lol, no. Godwin is average to maybe a bit above average outside; he's a slot receiver. That's where he's always been at his best, where the vast bulk of his production has come from over his entire career, and last season when Canales tried to put him outside the experiment was a near-complete failure by all TB accounts.

In fact, it was during that losing streak TB had mid-season when Canales tried to put Godwin outside. Check his gamelogs, it wasn't great.

And their winning streak to finish the season came at the same time Godwin was put back in the slot.


Anyway, I look forward to reading your counter at this point. Especially about the QBs.

This is exactly what people used to say about Hill.

But hill became a top end receiver. Deebo never has. He’s still basically who he’s always been. Aiyuk has become what you hope receivers become when you use a high pick on them.