I think it should matter in terms of how much a player elevates their team above and beyond what's expected... not necessarily "what would the team do without him," but were they playing out of their mind.

I think the argument is definitely there for the Ravens still winning 10 or 11 games without Jackson last season or without his 3600 yards passing and 24 passing touchdowns. Hell, he probably has a better case this year given the defense sucks.

I'm kind of torn on Burrow this season, just from their terribly weak wins... yeah, maybe they only win 5 or 6 games without him, but damnit he really elevated his team to beat all those 4-win teams and the Broncos and are still in the playoff hunt.... :shrug:

What would the Eagles be without Saquon? Still a contender. They were in the sb two years ago.

My vote is Allen he’s had a great yr. What would the Bills be without Josh? An also ran watching the Dolphins win a tallest midget contest.

I’d consider Burrow if their record was better and frankly might change my mind if they weasel into the playoffs - yes that’s partially out of his control but team success factors into it for me.

Search settings can definitely tell you a lot about your team if that picture came up from “Burrow Super Bowl” ROFL That’s the difference between a team on the precipice of history and one that made a week 2 matchup their Super Bowl. Maybe if your players didn’t make that game your seasons Super Bowl you would have had a better chance based on your historic failures in those games. You all could have at least prepared for the worst team in the league the week before so you wouldn’t be in the position you’re in now rooting for our backups to save you all from another wasted season with valuable rookie contracts expiring

Primarily because one player can only do so much. What they have done should not be impacted by the failures of others. But they are, and I get it. It’s why I am saying that he won’t win it because he is the QB and his team’s record does matter.

An example of getting MVP despite team performance would be the Stanley Cup finals last year. Although Florida won it, McDavid was MVP. They gave it to him as it was clear that he was heads and toes the best player in that series despite his team winning it all.

Now Burrow has put up great numbers this year, but he’s not head and toes better than anyone else and because of that he won’t win.

I'd say a ~9-win team (and probably 10 after this weekend)... not like "with Trubinsky instead," but say Allen wasn't as good this season. He definitely elevated the team against some good competition. The Chiefs of course, the Lions game, put up 42 against the Rams in a loss (granted, his hero ball didn't help), do they beat the Dolphins in Buffalo without him.

Given the loss to the Texans, they'd potentially be 4th seed material.

Score.

How many wins do we have without Pat ?

4 or less.

I'm sure I'll catch heat for it here, but I think Burrow has been more impressive than the other 2 in terms of playing QB from the pocket.

Now Fauker, you’re on a Chiefs forum Mr.

You be nice and show some respect!

That's kind of a loaded question with how they seem to run things and just shut it down when they have a lead, plus his own struggles this year, but... 10 or 11 maybe?

Ravens... one of his best games of the season.
Bucs
Carolina, oddly

And then I'm kind of torn on the Bengals game (given he had two turnovers), Chargers SNF, Texans. Maybe Black Friday.

That's a tough one to figure out... he adds so much value ever week, yet struggled enough at times you had to wonder how he still managed to add enough value to win games (or luck into them).

Just bringing this back for a quick review.

3-13 in game winning drives

Pay attention Peej. This is how you do it.


Oh damn. I just remembered i have to go over to the RR to catch his reply. ROFL

"team that hates you the most in the league" ?
Can't speak for the "team", but as a life-long Cincy fan, I can unequivocally state that the team I hate most in the league is, and always will be, the Pittsburgh Steelers. Point.Blank.Period.

Was wondering when you’d pull that card. I never said that, of course. I said he’s not the most valuable player in the league. You act like that’s a huge insult. Like I said, you could make a much better case for OPOY.

If Blaine Gabbert came in for Mahomes and posted a better record and good stats, you know damn well you’d say it hurts his case for most valuable player. ROFL

Especially if Mahomes were only beating scrubs.

I have no shame in it. Go Wentz!!!!!

Butker shank a game winner? Cmon, no chance he never does that.

That would be an intentional tank job if I were to ever see one Lol!

Baker vs Burrow - very similar line with a better record. Baker's case for MVP in my opinion is stronger than Burrow's and I''m not suggesting either one should get it. Burrow's best win was the Broncos game and only one that MIGHT make the playoffs. Baker has 3 wins against current playoff teams including the LIONS!

2024 Season

Passing

Completions 386 423
Attempts 538 606
Percentage 71.7 69.8
Yards 4,279 4,641
Yds/Att 8.0 7.7
TD 39 42
INT 15 8
Sacked 39 44

Rushing

Attempts 51 41
Yards 310 202
Yds/Att 6.1 4.9
Long 21 47

This how we are with the Broncos...and will never change no matter how many times Mahomes beats them. He is 13-1 so far....

You can root for Wentz...we were rooting for the Bunglers on Saturday. Your team really tried it's best to live up to that name...

Totally agree.
It's gotta be a mix of excellent play/stats while also elevating those around him to team success.

Burrow's stats are crazy good, but team success nope.

On the flip side, Mahomes' stats are not great, but him elevating play and resulting team success is off the charts (15-1).
Mahomes isn't even in the MVP convo this year with a 15-1 team. Why?

Burrow shouldn't be either, although he is killing it stats-wise

Yeah, I think that's how most fans operate... not so much about postseason rivalries or shorter term things, but the rivalries that span decades.

I've never really had hatred for teams that were just better than the Chiefs, so most of my life they just weren't good enough to have great rivalries. I'm not old enough for the true Chiefs/Raiders hatred of the 70s when players wanted to really, seriously, kill each other... and the Broncos just haven't been good at the same time as the Chiefs, outside of the mid-late 90s, which seems like a few lifetimes ago at this point.

Those teams certainly aren't neutral, but I've spent far more time laughing at them than hating them.... or in say the Broncos' Manning years, shrugging that they were just better.

I'd put the Bills at the top of the list of my teams to hate.... I'll always say, at least (for the most part) Bengals fans, the team, and apparently mayor earned bragging rights before they ended up taking it too far and paying dearly for it.

Bills fans have been flapping their gums since before the 2020 AFCCG and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Say ‘Go Chiefs’

stupid mayor. Lol

Win or Lose, Bungals games typically are fun to watch there's a lot of action. Usually a lot of scoring, boneheaded miscues left and right, doinks and missed FGs, close games , etc.

Wouldn't have been a good game the other night without the Bungles showing up for some antics:
4th and 1 give up a prayer TD with 8sec left,,
Cade York's doink hahahaha

They're a dang roller coaster for sure

Lol. Yes I'm rooting for the Chiefs to beat Denver

They should put in our backup kicker, a safety, to try a long one, lol.

Personally, I think plenty of QBs could have solid success behind Allen's OL, with that running game and coordinator, and their schedule this year. But he's obviously had a good season.

Yeah. I posted Pat's GWDs for this year earlier in this thread. Not the stuff of legends. A grand total of 2 passes that travelled 10+ air yards.

Wowzers! But it's ok that Pat can't put up Burrow numbers anymore cause he just waits and wins the game.

Yup. I actually have zero hate for the Chiefs. Pit can go suck a rusty pipe that's been dipped in AIDS and then shoved up Clay's arsehole.

Funny thing is...Mahomes' bad season has a higher QBR of 68.5/100 than Lamar Jackson's MVP season of 65.4/100 last year. I find that to be pretty amusing.

I just happened to reply to your post, but the comment was more of a general one.

I'm not even arguing he is the front-runner, just that if they make the playoffs, he has to be considered.

5 straight wins + those numbers + playoffs, carrying the team with an NFL record. Overall record is mid but he got really hot at the right time while Josh and Lamar have cooled off.

That was Bengals/Steelers in the 2010s.

Yeah I was specifically talking about the players. Chase refusing to say Mahomes name as the #1 player and rooting for “anyone but the Chiefs” makes it pretty easy to see who they hate the most. Circling a week 2 game and letting it essentially cost you a playoff spot because you forgot to game plan for the worst team in the league is the price they payed for it too.

I know I’ll definitely be rooting for the Bengals to get in over the ****ing Donkeys so I understand the division rivalry thing for sure. It’s why all the betas hoping we lose this weekend to not give the Bungles a chance make me sick. You never turn down the opportunity to end your division rivals season.

Good man rfaulk,,

Let the Steeler hate flow :#

Yessir. There's no reason for the Chiefs to fear facing anyone. "gives us trouble", yeah well...that's the NFL. If i could make it so the Bengals have to go to Buffalo, go to KC and then go to Baltimore, i'd do it in a second, regardless of a wing and a prayer or already clinched.

He has arguably the best weapons in the league. Wouldn't say it's absolute shit. OL's weak but LT isn't too bad, which is most important by far.

The defense isn't very good, but it wasn't the reason they lost 16-10 to NE. They also held KC to 19 offensive points and Joe's fumble-6 was the difference. If you want a realistic shot at MVP, don't piss down your leg in those games and win a shootout once in awhile.

I'm expecting some coming up soon.

LMAO

That's the way I hate Denver. Doesn't matter if they're good, bad or anything in between. **** 'em.

Are you saying you expect Wentz and the 3rd/4th string to win in Denver? ROFL

Only thing i'm looking at right now is the Bengals winning in Pitt. Nothing else matters if that doesn't happen.

I think it's just a bridge too far for Cincy. I don't see the Jets beating anybody, and our backups probably lose on Sunday. One might happen, but both? That's some long ****ing odds there.

Super long. But i just can't seem to shake this feeling...


Maybe it's just gas.

Broncos are 10 point favorites lol

Beat Pitt,, send them to the #6 seed and a WC matchup at Baltimore

Weirder shit has happened... ****ing Herm Edwards backed into the playoffs one year, needing like 3 things to happen (including the Broncos losing).

And the NFL may have gifted the Bengals a game against the Steelers' backups, so you have that going for you.

Yup. After last season’s playoff run I am not sure why KC would fear playing anyone. If anything I can see every other team fearing the thought of facing KC.

If Miami beats the NYJ then what KC does is irrelevant. Might as well knock Denver out of the playoffs as well.

I don't think they'll rest anyone. They still have to play for their slot. Do they want to win and go to the Texans or lose and go to the Ravens.

Self-inflicted, Burrow is a sack merchant. Allen is almost as good as Mahomes (who is historically great at it) at avoiding sacks.

Ahh, had not looked far enough into that... yeah, losing in that case could really suck for them.

Yeah, I wouldn't say 'fear', but there's also some history of not playing the best seed available every round, for example...

2021 - Chiefs couldn't beat both the Bills and Bengals
2022 - Bengals couldn't beat both the Bills and Chiefs
And last season, the Ravens obviously weren't prepared, but maybe they've learned a bit.

And not so much "couldn't", but just the fact those games are 50/50 toss-ups, teams that see each other on average more than once per season.

Mahomes' margin of victory is 11 when not playing Brady, Allen, or Burrow in the playoffs... and it's 2.8 when playing those guys (granted, I left out the Bucs SB as to not skew the small sample size, or else it's like 0.7).

I'd say there's a pretty huge difference between playing a team like the Texans or Chargers in the Divisional Round and playing a big rival like the Bengals and of course a QB like Burrow.

Of course, that would also mean the Bills are eliminated in the WC round, which would be both hilarious and helpful.

If the Ravens win doesn't Pitt winning become irrelevant to them?

No. If they lose and the Chargers win, the Chargers jump them for the #5 seed. Then it becomes Chargers @ Texans and Steelers @ Ravens.

Here's a simple reference:

https://i.redd.it/75uyylw7y8ae1.jpeg

I crunched the numbers and found that i am a fan of the 2nd KC winning outcome.

The good news: Blaine Gabbert won in week 18 last year with the 3rd/4th string, and Wentz is better than Gabbert.

The bad news: Easton Stick won't be suiting up for Denver.

Holy ****. I forgot about that. ROFL

But, but, but Nix Bo

Just look at the difference between last season and this season as far as record goes. None of the bounces were going our way. We lost the close games instead of winning them like this season. Just that little change of luck is the difference between 15-1 and 11-6. That’s with Pat. Now Andy has won plenty of division titles, and games with much lesser quarterbacks than 15. So it’s fair to say he could probably still get to 10 ish wins without Pat but with Spags and this defense. Problem is, when the playoffs start there’s no quarterback in league history I’d rather have than Patrick. Dude is CLUTCH, and I guarantee most teams don’t really want to face him in a one off. Why would they? He’s lost only 3 postseason games total. Down 24 in the first quarter, down 10 in the second half. Teams have learned the hard way not to celebrate before the clock hits zero’s. Cuz if you do, pretty good chance Mahomes is gonna rub your nose in shit.

I remember so clearly Watson playing air guitar after that 24 point 1st quarter. But Patrick had the lead before halftime. That’s whole playoff run was just ridiculous. Down double digits in every game and he didn’t blink an eye.

I think it's insane to think the typical backup would have won anywhere near 10 games in place of Mahomes this year. With the injuries they had and a turnstile LT, vs a tough schedule. Think about how close most of these games were with Mahomes.

Looking at the schedule I think 4 wins is about right.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/0t1pbZISO9">https://t.co/0t1pbZISO9</a> <a href="https://t.co/PPirOCRdgu">pic.twitter.com/PPirOCRdgu</a></p>&mdash; Chargers⚡️Union (@Chargers_Union) <a href="https://twitter.com/Chargers_Union/status/1875239622143594821?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Be nice to be able to sort that in a way that just removes any 'Cleveland beats Baltimore' possibilities.

Because that just ain't gonna happen. There's no way Cleveland is going to be Baltimore with the division on the line. Cleveland is shot.

Looks like there's a pretty decent chance we actually end up getting the Chargers in the Divisional Round.

Don't really love that. Would sure be nice if Pitt could beat Cincy in that game. And honestly, if we lose to Denver, seems like it's probably a safe bet.

Losing to Denver makes a lot of sense for us if for no other reason than it gives Cincy literally nothing to play for in the nightcap and that vaults Pitt into the 4/5 matchup and we could probably beat whoever wins that game with the same roster we field vs. Denver.

Cincy plays Saturday night. Chiefs play Sunday.

Bengals play Sat night. KC/Den plays Sunday late afternoon.

That opener loss the NE was pathetic. Every game matters even the first one. Ask the Raven who still haven't locked up the division because they lost to us.

Burrow’s awful game vs the Patriots should disqualify him from the MVP conversation.

Yeah we want the Steelers to win so we likely play the Texans or Steelers. Out of the Texans, Steelers, Broncos and Chargers, I think it’s pretty easy to say the Chargers are the one team out of those 4 we would least like to play.

Good coach, great tackles, elite defense, really good QB. Definitely better than the other 3 IMO.

Herbert may be 1-7 vs Mahomes but all but one of those games was decided by 7 or less points. Herbert is usually a pain in the ass.

We’d win though

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/p3ybb6CF9W">https://t.co/p3ybb6CF9W</a> <a href="https://t.co/8rOVXypUxT">pic.twitter.com/8rOVXypUxT</a></p>&mdash; DMac Wake (@DMacWake316) <a href="https://twitter.com/DMacWake316/status/1875285593841922252?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 3, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wait, the Jets ALSO have to beat the Dolphins for the Bengals to get in? LMAO

Joe Burrow’s trophy case.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GgU6GK4W...jpg&name=large

Maybe you win a few more games at the beginning of the year than you do and you don't have this problem.

Did Burrow ever think of that?

I’ll agree that out of the Chargers, Steelers, Broncos, and Texans — the Chargers are the least desirable matchup — however…

I think the Chiefs are kicking whoever’s ass they run into that weekend.

Yes the Herbert-Mahomes matchups have always been close, and we’ve won 7 of 8, but the deck is going to be more stacked against LA this time around than normal.

Playoffs are a different beast and Mahomes is statistically the best playoff QB ever. Arrowhead becomes the madhouse that it’s known to be. Guys are going to be fresh and fast coming off rest. The threepeat light is at the end of the tunnel.

I’ll be the first to say on here that I love Harbaugh’s building blocks in LA and I think they just might be our biggest threat to winning more Super Bowls in the 2025-2030 window. But that roster isn’t ready for the big stage yet.

The Chargers matchup is where I’d really love a healthy Humphries. They are one of the few defenses that can slow down our passing offense, so being able to pound the rock when the pass isn’t working could be huge - especially if we get poor weather and force those LA boys to play some smashmouth football in the cold.

Stop eating that shit**** chili, forcryinoutloud.

Maybe I'm grasping at straws, but the Chargers didn't have to deal with a healthy Hollywood and Pacheco to go along with Hopkins being fully integrated into the offense?

And absolutely agreed about Humphries. The Thuney band aid at LT worked wonders, but having DJ out there would also give us an angle we didn't have against them earlier.

If Pitt oozes into the 3rd seed I'm going to be pissed.

That team is the biggest fake next to Denver in the playoff picture.