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BigRedChief 10-16-2021 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 15895931)
I have been critical of Shildt's bullpen use in big games for most of his tenure. Martinez was a full Section 8 in the NLDS against Atlanta in 2019, but he kept running him out there and it almost cost them the series.

With that said, regardless of how you feel about the performance of the manager, it is remarkably unprofessional to fire him over the phone. That reeks of cowardice, and it raises serious questions as to why anyone in the organization that isn't a complete lackey would have any respect for current management and ownership.

Their handling of this dismissal has been disgraceful.

Agree. He worked for the Cardinals for a long time, Riding the bus's in the minors, Teaching the Kissel way. Firing him over the phone was bush league. Cowardice. Reflects poorly on the whole Cardinals org.

duncan_idaho 10-16-2021 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 15895931)
I have been critical of Shildt's bullpen use in big games for most of his tenure. Martinez was a full Section 8 in the NLDS against Atlanta in 2019, but he kept running him out there and it almost cost them the series.

With that said, regardless of how you feel about the performance of the manager, it is remarkably unprofessional to fire him over the phone. That reeks of cowardice, and it raises serious questions as to why anyone in the organization that isn't a complete lackey would have any respect for current management and ownership.

Their handling of this dismissal has been disgraceful.

John Dorsey sees no problem with this.

DJ's left nut 10-16-2021 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 15895976)
Agree. He worked for the Cardinals for a long time, Riding the bus's in the minors, Teaching the Kissel way. Firing him over the phone was bush league. Cowardice. Reflects poorly on the whole Cardinals org.

Losing Chris Carpenter to the Angels because you didn’t bother to contact him about renewing his deal looks real good as well.

This organization is rotten. It’s real Wormtongue shit with Moe and DeWitt at this point.

Pasta Little Brioni 10-16-2021 01:26 PM

This accomplished absolutely nothing with leaving that clown in charge. Waste of ****ing time. Either you start fresh all around or not at all. The fact that the organization allowed MO to put the blame on Shildt is absolutely criminal. Will not spend a cent on this team next season due to this.

BigRedChief 10-16-2021 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother (Post 15896215)
This accomplished absolutely nothing with leaving that clown in charge. Waste of ****ing time. Either you start fresh all around or not at all. The fact that the organization allowed MO to put the blame on Shildt is absolutely criminal. Will not spend a cent on this team next season due to this.

we have $40 million freed up from this years payroll available next year. That’s a lot of cash that Dewitt doesn’t have to open his wallet to pay out.

they need one quality bat and one quality pitcher and they can possibly beat LA in a playoff series. Mo making those decisions also probably means he will make a bad choices on how to spend that $40 million. Assuming Liberatore and Gorman are contributing to their potential by the time the playoffs roll around.

Pasta Little Brioni 10-17-2021 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 15896569)
we have $40 million freed up from this years payroll available next year. That’s a lot of cash that Dewitt doesn’t have to open his wallet to pay out.

they need one quality bat and one quality pitcher and they can possibly beat LA in a playoff series. Mo making those decisions also probably means he will make a bad choices on how to spend that $40 million. Assuming Liberatore and Gorman are contributing to their potential by the time the playoffs roll around.

It's just embarrassing Shildt took the fall. What a ****ing joke. What a turd move by Dewitt so **** him. Won't get a cent.

Chief Roundup 10-17-2021 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother (Post 15896740)
It's just embarrassing Shildt took the fall. What a ****ing joke. What a turd move by Dewitt so **** him. Won't get a cent.

I get a chuckle out of these kinds of comments. As if your piddly little money matters SO much. They don't concern themselves with your pennies. Get over yourself. If you have season tickets and cancel them, they don't care because there are countless people waiting to take your spot. The only value in your fandom is to you and you alone. If you don't value your fandom then don't be a fan.

Marcellus 10-17-2021 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15895896)
A) ‘regardless of past history’ disqualifies pretty much anything as a serious remark

B) I’ve already argued this. A half dozen times. You’re just not paying attention.

Im paying attention I just dont agree with you. Schildt issues are the same as Matheny's issues except they played good defense. Coaches are responsible for that not managers.

Again Schildt is likely a good coach, he is not a good manager, there is a clear destination.

Pasta Little Brioni 10-17-2021 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 15897032)
I get a chuckle out of these kinds of comments. As if your piddly little money matters SO much. They don't concern themselves with your pennies. Get over yourself. If you have season tickets and cancel them, they don't care because there are countless people waiting to take your spot. The only value in your fandom is to you and you alone. If you don't value your fandom then don't be a fan.

The **** is wrong with you ROFL it's fans like why MO still has a job

Chief Roundup 10-17-2021 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother (Post 15897754)
The **** is wrong with you ROFL it's fans like why MO still has a job

Fans like.....what? I don't spend money on the Cards. I haven't in YEARS. I just realize it makes zero difference.


Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

duncan_idaho 10-17-2021 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15896211)
Losing Chris Carpenter to the Angels because you didn’t bother to contact him about renewing his deal looks real good as well.

This organization is rotten. It’s real Wormtongue shit with Moe and DeWitt at this point.

It really does seem like Mozeliak is in lockstep with DeWitt on how to run the organization. I wouldn't expect a change unless DeWitt thinks he can get away with bringing Luhnow back and giving him the head baseball ops job (GM, VP, whatever you want to call it).

BigRedChief 10-24-2021 07:45 PM

Per the athletic:

The Cardinals are set to announce Oliver Marmol as their next manager during a virtual news conference Monday morning.

Chief Roundup 10-24-2021 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 15912687)
Per the athletic:

The Cardinals are set to announce Oliver Marmol as their next manager during a virtual news conference Monday morning.

ok. Not sure what to think of that other than the surface stuff of how is he any better than Shildt and is this just to hold the seat until they find someone better or replace Mo.

DJ's left nut 10-25-2021 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15895600)
I’d probably lay 3-1 odds that it’ll be Oliver Marmol.

And I’m just gonna say this - if anyone thinks that Marmol is a smarter, more capable baseball guy than Mike Shildt, they’re going to be REALLY disappointed.

And Marmol it is.

I just want to remind you all what Mozeliak said about Shildt when he was promoted:

Quote:

“Mike has a strong understanding and interest in modern analytics, as well as practical experience utilizing these tools,” Mozeliak said. “At the minor-league level, he was helpful in developing pilot programs as well as being part of a team determining what works best from a practical standpoint. He was very much engaged in this during the season and offseason development meetings.”
Guys - Mike Shildt is a guy who flat out smarted his way up the baseball ladder. He never played a single inning of professional baseball. He is a BRILLIANT baseball guy who embraced modern approaches every step of his managerial career.

And now we have Mozeliak orchestrating some bullshit whisper campaign saying he was some stubborn old crank who wouldn't look at stats or some other such bullshit.

Mozeliak wanted a puppet. He wanted someone he could make 'part of a committee' of decisionmakers. Wanna know how that works out?

Look at the 'committee' of calculator geeks that managed to run out of arms despite a historically great staff in LA. Their 5th best reliever would've been our best and they're throwing starters in relief. Pitch Scherzer and Urias in bullpen starts? Why the hell not - surely that won't be an issue. Oh...well crap, he has a dead arm now. Bummer. I was told starters could be used as relievers without consequence.

You absolutely cannot have the kind of organizational groupthink that DeWitt and Mozo seem to be striving for.

This is scapegoating bullshit for a mediocre roster and made-up justifications for firing a guy who wouldn't kiss the ring.

DJ's left nut 10-25-2021 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 15912772)
ok. Not sure what to think of that other than the surface stuff of how is he any better than Shildt and is this just to hold the seat until they find someone better or replace Mo.

He isn't. And they aren't looking for 'someone better'.

They wanted someone compliant. And if Marmol ever finds his voice, they'll fire him as well.

Nothing will change with Mozeliak in charge and Mozeliak will be in charge as long as DeWitt owns this team.

BigRedChief 10-25-2021 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15914215)
He isn't. And they aren't looking for 'someone better'.

They wanted someone compliant. And if Marmol ever finds his voice, they'll fire him as well.

Nothing will change with Mozeliak in charge and Mozeliak will be in charge as long as DeWitt owns this team.

Sadly, truth.
Mo was talking about how he decides on a bench coach. The dude is such a puppet that he doesn’t even get to pick his own bench coach.
:sulk:

Pasta Little Brioni 10-25-2021 05:48 PM

What a piece of shit hire...wow. Mo put all the blame on Shildt to hire someone somehow even less qualified....WOW

Pasta Little Brioni 10-25-2021 05:49 PM

I mean this is infuriating that Shildt is the fall guy for Mos failures

DJ's left nut 10-25-2021 06:03 PM

I’m just gonna hope this is an ‘emperor has no clothes’ moment for the massive segment of the fanbase that thinks Mozeliak is anything but a back-biting opportunist.

The guy is a conniving snake. He’s been in the game damn near 30 years and is no better at building a team than he was when he was first hired. He’s not a championship caliber executive. He’s just a politically savvy manipulator who’s charmed a billionaire.

Pasta Little Brioni 10-25-2021 06:12 PM

He's a coffee fetcher who has been exposed by Peter principle

Jewish Rabbi 10-25-2021 06:18 PM

I’d rather JakeF assume control of the team than Mo

BigRedChief 10-25-2021 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15914390)
I’m just gonna hope this is an ‘emperor has no clothes’ moment for the massive segment of the fanbase that thinks Mozeliak is anything but a back-biting opportunist.

The guy is a conniving snake. He’s been in the game damn near 30 years and is no better at building a team than he was when he was first hired. He’s not a championship caliber executive. He’s just a politically savvy manipulator who’s charmed a billionaire.

Dewitt looks really old in the new videos. Maybe he’ll croak of natural causes and Junior will send Mo packing?

Marcellus 10-25-2021 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15914215)
He isn't. And they aren't looking for 'someone better'.

They wanted someone compliant. And if Marmol ever finds his voice, they'll fire him as well.

Nothing will change with Mozeliak in charge and Mozeliak will be in charge as long as DeWitt owns this team.

You well know I have been critical of Schildt but even I can see just pulling the next guy up to take his place makes zero sense.

If you aren't trying to make a major move then no it makes no sense to fire Schildt unless like you said he just wouldn't play their game.

DJ's left nut 10-25-2021 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 15914513)
You well know I have been critical of Schildt but even I can see just pulling the next guy up to take his place makes zero sense.

If you aren't trying to make a major move then no it makes no sense to fire Schildt unless like you said he just wouldn't play their game.

That was my point. And it was why I called the Marmol hire the day Shildt's firing was announced.

You were looking for baseball reasons why the organization fired him. And I don't know why anyone bothered. Those reasons, IMO, are incredibly thin but ultimately they just didn't matter.

Baseball had absolutely nothing to do with this decision. This was an ego and consolidation of power thing. Nothing less.

Marmol was the obvious means to that end and was from the very beginning.

Chief Roundup 10-30-2021 07:49 PM

https://www.ky3.com/2021/10/28/sprin...bY9T9feA8kOE40

A curious black bear roamed below a hunter sitting in a deer stand. It only took seconds for it to climb the tree he was in and have a taste.

Dalton Roach pitched for the Springfield Cardinals in 2021.

“It’s not totally uncommon for a bear to go into a tree with a hunter,” said Dalton Roach, adding he caught the whole encounter on camera. “But the fact he actually started gnawing on me and stuff, like that was a little abnormal.”

The nearly 300-pound black bear bit the 25-year-old hunter in the back. With a paw in his lap and fresh puncture wounds, Roach realized he couldn’t panic.

“I kind of pulled myself out and then stood around and turned, kind of in one motion to then face the bear and then just started yelling and hollering,” Roach explained.

The bear lingered below the deer stand for another half hour before wandering off. Roach said he laughed about what happened with a friend on the quarter-mile trek back to his truck.

“It’s one of those situations that obviously doesn’t happen every day,” Roach said.

He went to the emergency room for treatment and a rabies vaccine, which he says hurt worse than the bite itself. Doctors doubt Roach will have a scar, but he certainly will have quite the story to tell.

“I think it makes it a little less believable because I think people are under the impression if a bear bites you, you’re missing something,” Roach said. “So, it’s, along with it being a cool story, it can be an educational tool too.”

Ocotillo 11-07-2021 07:35 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Paul Goldschmidt is the 4th different @Cardinal 1B to win the Gold Glove.<br> <br>Albert Pujols (2)<br>Keith Hernandez (5)<br>Bill White (6) <a href="https://t.co/RiapIO3jFb">pic.twitter.com/RiapIO3jFb</a></p>&mdash; MLB Stats (@MLBStats) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBStats/status/1457521768177012736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 11-07-2021 07:36 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tommy Edman is a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoldGlove?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoldGlove</a> winner for the first time. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> <a href="https://t.co/rSNn51Ie4a">pic.twitter.com/rSNn51Ie4a</a></p>&mdash; Bally Sports Midwest (@BallySportsMW) <a href="https://twitter.com/BallySportsMW/status/1457522023308185602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 11-07-2021 07:39 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow! The <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a> just won three of the four Gold Gloves in the NL infield:<br><br>Paul Goldschmidt, 1B<br>Tommy Edman, 2B<br>Nolan Arenado, 3B<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a></p>&mdash; Tom Ackerman (@Ackerman1120) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ackerman1120/status/1457522793071919109?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pasta Little Brioni 11-07-2021 07:41 PM

And?

Ocotillo 11-07-2021 07:59 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoldGlove?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoldGlove</a> Awards in a row for Tyler O’Neill. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> <a href="https://t.co/iGfe2N6z6S">pic.twitter.com/iGfe2N6z6S</a></p>&mdash; Bally Sports Midwest (@BallySportsMW) <a href="https://twitter.com/BallySportsMW/status/1457527867882024964?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jewish Rabbi 11-07-2021 08:02 PM

5 ****in gold gloves and it took a miracle run to get into the playoffs ROFL

Ocotillo 11-07-2021 08:03 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1B Paul Goldschmidt, 2B Tommy Edman, 3B Nolan Arenado, LF Tyler O&#39;Neill and CF Harrison Bader have all won a Gold Glove for the <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a>.<br><br>They&#39;re the 1st team in MLB history to have 5 Gold Glove winners in a season. <a href="https://t.co/9nfQ92fVV0">pic.twitter.com/9nfQ92fVV0</a></p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1457528433727229960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

BigRedChief 11-07-2021 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 15941670)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">1B Paul Goldschmidt, 2B Tommy Edman, 3B Nolan Arenado, LF Tyler O&#39;Neill and CF Harrison Bader have all won a Gold Glove for the <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a>.<br><br>They&#39;re the 1st team in MLB history to have 5 Gold Glove winners in a season. <a href="https://t.co/9nfQ92fVV0">pic.twitter.com/9nfQ92fVV0</a></p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1457528433727229960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Only Molina, our SS and platoon of RF’ers didn’t win a gold glove? Now, how adding some consistent offense?

Ocotillo 11-13-2021 11:11 AM

Juan Yepez, Nolan Gorman, Lars Nootbar and Brendan Donovan in action tonight at 6 p.m. CST on MLB Network.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">⭐️ Your 2021 Arizona Fall League Fall Stars ⭐️<br><br>2021 AFL Fall Stars Game<br>📍 <a href="https://twitter.com/SaltRiverFields?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SaltRiverFields</a> <br>🕚 5:00 p.m. MST (7:00 p.m. EST)<br>📺 <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLBNetwork</a> <a href="https://t.co/JXApyBpB7j">pic.twitter.com/JXApyBpB7j</a></p>&mdash; MLB&#39;s Arizona Fall League (@MLBazFallLeague) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBazFallLeague/status/1458462080571297796?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Congratulations to <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a> corner infielder, Brendan Donovan for being this years West Division “Final Vote” winner! Brendan will be representing the Glendale Desert Dogs in the 15th annual Fall Stars Game! <br><br>Tune into MLB Network tomorrow at 5pm MT/7pm ET to watch live! <a href="https://t.co/VeynUZ80gs">pic.twitter.com/VeynUZ80gs</a></p>&mdash; MLB&#39;s Arizona Fall League (@MLBazFallLeague) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBazFallLeague/status/1459238667029921797?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Chief Roundup 11-13-2021 12:44 PM

https://redbirdrants.com/2021/11/01/...is-free-agent/

What do you all think about the idea of us signing Corey Seager?

jd1020 11-13-2021 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 15951546)
https://redbirdrants.com/2021/11/01/...is-free-agent/

What do you all think about the idea of us signing Corey Seager?

About as much as the author.

Quote:

Expect the Cardinals to check in on Seager. But unless something changes, and his asking price dramatically drops, he will be playing somewhere other than St. Louis in 2022.

Pasta Little Brioni 11-13-2021 12:51 PM

**** this organization

George Liquor 11-13-2021 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi (Post 15941666)
5 ****in gold gloves and it took a miracle run to get into the playoffs ROFL

I got a update from some sports app (CBS or MLB? I don't remember) stating the Cardinals will be patience this off-season when looking at adding FAs.

:shake:

Nobody comes in 2nd better than Mo and DeWallet.

BigRedChief 11-13-2021 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23 (Post 15951600)
I got a update from some sports app (CBS or MLB? I don't remember) stating the Cardinals will be patience this off-season when looking at adding FAs.

:shake:

Nobody comes in 2nd better than Mo and DeWallet.

they have $40-$45 million of salary going off the books. You don’t spend that money on new talent…there would be a fan backlash.

Ocotillo 11-14-2021 11:03 PM

NL Notes: Gorman, Brewers, Nationals

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/...nationals.html

As the Cardinals look to add more hitting this winter, Nolan Gorman could be the latest homegrown prospect to emerge at the big league level. It isn’t yet clear, however, whether or not Gorman will need more Triple-A seasoning before he makes his MLB debut, as Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak told Benjamin Hochman of The St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “From an offensive standpoint, we’re really encouraged with what we’re seeing,” Mozeliak said, also noting that Gorman looked good at second base this season after previously playing only as a third baseman.

Gorman hit .279/.333/.481 with 25 home runs over 523 cumulative plate appearances in 2021 — an .862 OPS in 195 PA for Double-A Springfield and then a .785 OPS in 328 PA for Triple-A Memphis. The 19th overall pick of the 2018 draft, Gorman’s bat looks like it provide a nice complement at second base with Tommy Edman, as Edman has provided excellent glovework but subpar offense over the last two seasons. Barring a major rookie breakout, however, Hochman doesn’t think Gorman himself will provide the offensive boost the Cards need, and Hochman wonders if moving shortstop Paul DeJong for a better hitter would be the answer.

Ocotillo 11-24-2021 01:07 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Left-hander Steven Matz and the St. Louis Cardinals are in agreement on a four-year, $44 million contract, pending physical, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN. Matz is coming off a career-best season and has a chance to get to $48 million and will receive a signing bonus.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1463379363534045186?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

duncan_idaho 11-24-2021 06:01 AM

WHOA

That’s a LOT for Matz, given his injury history.

Jewish Rabbi 11-24-2021 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 15974256)
WHOA

That’s a LOT for Matz, given his injury history.

Shit, I’m surprised Mo didn’t pay double that.

Rams Fan 11-24-2021 07:58 AM

I'm OK with the Matz signing if that's not Mo's only move for the rotation.

If it is, Cardinals are legit back in the same situation as 2021, except with Metz instead of Martinez.

VAChief 11-24-2021 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 15974333)
I'm OK with the Matz signing if that's not Mo's only move for the rotation.

If it is, Cardinals are legit back in the same situation as 2021, except with Metz instead of Martinez.

They need to go after strike throwers, let the defense you have elevate their profiles...not sure Matz is that type. If he's healthy it's not bad value, I would prefer a two year deal for a guy like this, but you probably don't get him at 11 million per if you don't go 4.

ChiefsCountry 11-24-2021 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief (Post 15974357)
They need to go after strike throwers, let the defense you have elevate their profiles...not sure Matz is that type. If he's healthy it's not bad value, I would prefer a two year deal for a guy like this, but you probably don't get him at 11 million per if you don't go 4.

Matz is a ground ball pitcher. That plays well with the Cardinals defense

BigRedChief 11-24-2021 09:24 AM

Yep, if he’s healthy, not a horrible deal. All these FA deals in baseball are usually over paying deals. But with his history of injuries, could be wasted money. Stays healthy, could be a good innings eater.

DJ's left nut 11-24-2021 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 15974256)
WHOA

That’s a LOT for Matz, given his injury history.

You see the market for pitching this year?

This is a lot more reasonable than I thought. Contrast that to 5/$80 he gave the righty version of Matz in Mike Leake.

I think they could coax a few 2.5-3 WAR season out of him and about a 3.7 ERA over 165 IP. That’s not a bad return on that investment.

The IPs are what concerns me most. I really don’t understand how a pitcher with his profile can’t average 6 IP/start.

jd1020 11-24-2021 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15974469)
The IPs are what concerns me most. I really don’t understand how a pitcher with his profile can’t average 6 IP/start.

He always has some kind of nagging injury.

Quote:

But injuries continued to dog Matz. He missed time in 2015 with a torn lat, in 2016 with a sore shoulder, and made two trips to the IL in 2017 with elbow issues. In 2018 it was a flexor pronator strain in his left arm, in 2019 it was radial nerve discomfort, and in 2020 it was more shoulder discomfort.

DJ's left nut 11-24-2021 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief (Post 15974357)
They need to go after strike throwers, let the defense you have elevate their profiles...not sure Matz is that type. If he's healthy it's not bad value, I would prefer a two year deal for a guy like this, but you probably don't get him at 11 million per if you don't go 4.

Yeah I figured he’d probably end up at about 3/$39.

So 4/$44 is racking on a pretty cheap year at the end of where I figured he’d be.

The bar for success on this deal is 7 combined WAR, IMO. Get a 3 WAR season, a 2.5 season, probably a largely lost season in there somewhere and maybe another 1-2 win season with some short stints on the IL to wrap it up.

DJ's left nut 11-24-2021 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 15974484)
He always has some kind of nagging injury.

But apart from last season he’s been a steady 30 starts/season. And his numbers are pretty consistent across the board.

He’s actually been weirdly consistent if you ignore the COVID season. I’d have never expected that from him.

jd1020 11-24-2021 10:15 AM

Cardinals took DeSclafani's deal and added 1 year to knock off $1M AAV.

Chiefspants 11-24-2021 10:18 AM

Cohen and the Mets are melting down about the Matz signing, all because they expected to be able to match the deal. Pretty hilarious stuff. Cohen just not putting together how his behavior could negatively impact his team's reputation and is encountering a rare problem in his life that money isn't solving.

VAChief 11-24-2021 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 15974387)
Matz is a ground ball pitcher. That plays well with the Cardinals defense

Yes, he throws a lot of sinkers...I was talking about his strike percentage, which was at 55% the last I checked...MLB average is usually around 62-65% for all pitchers.

Chief Roundup 11-28-2021 08:32 PM

Alright, you guys let us that don't follow as closely know about this lockout that is being planned to start Wednesday. Is this going to be a short lockout or a lengthy one?

BigRedChief 11-28-2021 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 15980502)
Alright, you guys let us that don't follow as closely know about this lockout that is being planned to start Wednesday. Is this going to be a short lockout or a lengthy one?

Supposedly, expectations are an agreement by training camp or not to far into the regular start dates. The players want out before 6 years. The owners have the DH to offer.

The owners know they are not getting a salary cap. They almost killed baseball trying to get it in the 90’s.

Ocotillo 11-29-2021 11:20 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Max Scherzer and the Mets are finalizing $130M, 3-year deal. Minor details to go only.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1465365012298485768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ's left nut 11-29-2021 11:24 AM

Jon Gray signing for 4/$56 is a risk I'd have been willing to take.

He's an awfully good complement to Matz. When both are healthy and productive they'd provide much different looks and Gray provides a nice floor given his health history and high-octane fastball.

At $14 million/season (in an environment where Scherzer is getting $43 million), I think that's a very justifiable risk.

Ocotillo 11-29-2021 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 15981448)
Jon Gray signing for 4/$56 is a risk I'd have been willing to take.

He's an awfully good complement to Matz. When both are healthy and productive they'd provide much different looks and Gray provides a nice floor given his health history and high-octane fastball.

At $14 million/season (in an environment where Scherzer is getting $43 million), I think that's a very justifiable risk.

I totally agree.

If you gave me a choice of Gray for 4/$56M or Kevin Gausman for 5/$110M, it would have been Gray hands down for me.

Marcellus 11-29-2021 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo (Post 15981442)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Max Scherzer and the Mets are finalizing $130M, 3-year deal. Minor details to go only.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1465365012298485768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Thats ridiculous.

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-29-2021 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 15981457)
Thats ridiculous.

They can afford it and it doesn't cost a comp pick. The owners can afford these contracts, they just don't admit it.

VAChief 11-29-2021 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 15981457)
Thats ridiculous.

As soon as I saw the Mets were involved yesterday I immediately thought the butt hurt the owner had over the Matz signing might lend to him "tilting" on a deal with Scherzer.

I wanted him, but that is insane money. Even as durable as he has been, he is still 38, 39, 40 in the years of that contract.

BigRedChief 11-29-2021 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 15981457)
Thats ridiculous.

Speaking of ridiculous……


Sources: Texas Rangers land star shortstop Corey Seager on 10-year, $325 million deal. The Rangers have committed $561 million over the last 24 hours to free agents, the biggest free-agent spending spree in MLB history.

duncan_idaho 11-29-2021 06:53 PM

That Bryce Harper deal looking better and better for the Phillies.

I know we talked about here, but goddamn Mozeliak missed a chance there.

Marcellus 11-29-2021 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 15981496)
They can afford it and it doesn't cost a comp pick. The owners can afford these contracts, they just don't admit it.

If we could afford to pay Carpenter, Miller, Fowler, and Cecil what we did for jack shit yea I guess so.

BigRedChief 11-29-2021 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 15982474)
That Bryce Harper deal looking better and better for the Phillies.

I know we talked about here, but goddamn Mozeliak missed a chance there.

he’s got a long list of misses.

How’d your new manager do last year? Did he seem to learn from his mistakes with the Cardinals?

Marcellus 11-29-2021 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 15982488)
he’s got a long list of misses.

How’d your new manager do last year? Did he seem to learn from his mistakes with the Cardinals?

Ouch, shots fired!

duncan_idaho 11-29-2021 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 15982488)
he’s got a long list of misses.

How’d your new manager do last year? Did he seem to learn from his mistakes with the Cardinals?

I will grudgingly admit Matheny was less of an epic disaster than I expected. He seems to have learned at least a smidge. But he’d still be out on his ass tomorrow if I was calling the shots.

Chiefspants 11-29-2021 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 15974501)
Cohen and the Mets are melting down about the Matz signing, all because they expected to be able to match the deal. Pretty hilarious stuff. Cohen just not putting together how his behavior could negatively impact his team's reputation and is encountering a rare problem in his life that money isn't solving.

update: False alarm.

Marco Polo 11-30-2021 03:54 PM

The Twitter world is suggesting the Cards are still hoping for one out of two from Story or Stroman. Story’s non-Coors lines are not worth bragging home about but still think that he’d be an upgrade over DeJong if the price is right.

DJ's left nut 11-30-2021 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Polo (Post 15983791)
The Twitter world is suggesting the Cards are still hoping for one out of two from Story or Stroman. Story’s non-Coors lines are not worth bragging home about but still think that he’d be an upgrade over DeJong if the price is right.

I don't think he'd be a significant enough upgrade over Sosa to justify the pricetag and the opportunity cost.

Sosa's glove is GG caliber. Over a full season he's worth 3 wins on the basis of his defense alone. His contact skills are average and his patience is abysmal.

But he was one of 3 players in MLB last year to put up a max sprint speed, max exit velocity and outs above average in the top 10% of baseball. That means he has elite raw speed, plus raw power and is a premium defender at a premium defensive position.

I think over a full season you're probably looking at a .710ish OPS from him that's something along the lines of .260/.310/.400. That's about what Miguel Rojas gave the Marlins last year - nothing great, but it'll play. It's a wRC+ of almost dead average. And Rojas never showed the kind of power potential that Sosa showed in AAA in '19 (17 homers). In nearly 2400 ABs over his career Rojas has never hit a ball 110 mph - Sosa hit one 115 mph last season. He has far more natural power than Rojas and decent contact skills. That's a guy who can at least play at this level.

So you give him a slightly better offensive profile than Miguel Rojas and GG defense at shortstop and you have a 4+ WAR player on your hands. Especially if he can improve his base-stealing technique. And if he could even creep that walk rate to 8%, you're really cookin'.

Now if TON is for real and Carlson's late-season power development continues, and ESPECIALLY if Bader continues to turn the corner offensively (a process he actually started in '20) - you can easily afford to carry Sosa's bat. Suddenly that team is genuinely good, especially if Yepez/Gorman/Noot can provide viable punch at DH.

They still don't have a true leadoff hitter in the lineup, but Story doesn't solve that problem anyway (I still say you see if you can get any traction moving Jordan Walker or Nolan Gorman for CJ Abrams).

So pass on Story and get a deal done with Stroman. Now you have Stroman and Matz, not to mention Hudson, Wainright and Mikolas, who all have extreme ground ball tendencies backed by one of the better defensive infields in decades. Then you work on guys like Reyes and Hicks. You get Reyes to trade velocity for command and get Hicks to trade velo for movement. Now you have both guys working at 95-96 with the ability to coax playable contact instead of walking guys (Reyes) or taking 17 pitches to get anyone out (Hicks) and you can see if they could actually develop into rotation options long-term.

Stroman is the right answer here. But don't forget to block him on social media because he'll just piss you off.

Ocotillo 12-08-2021 01:25 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/stlcards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#stlcards</a> draft OF with STL ties in the first round of MiLB Rule 5: Ben DeLuzio was born in St. Louis. An undrafted free agent (2016) who had been in Arizona&#39;s system, DeLuzio went to high school in Orlando, played at Florida State. He&#39;s 27 with a career .363 OBP in minors.</p>&mdash; Derrick S. Goold (@dgoold) <a href="https://twitter.com/dgoold/status/1468662584828117000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 12-08-2021 01:31 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> select RHP Carlos Guarate in the minor league Rule V draft from the San Diego Padres.<br><br>RH, 21 yo<br><br>Career 174 2/3 IP<br>4.33 ERA, 1.294 WHIP, 7.2 K/9, 2.3 BB/9<br><br>2021 (A/A+) 99 IP<br>5.91 ERA, 1.404 WHIP, 7.0 K/9, 2.0 BB/9</p>&mdash; Ben Cerutti (@stlfanbc7) <a href="https://twitter.com/stlfanbc7/status/1468663716732231680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 12-08-2021 01:36 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pirates lose OF Jonah Davis to Cardinals in Rule 5. <br><br>Liover Peguero said Davis had best bat flip in Pirates system: &quot;He hit a bomb and just threw the bat. He pointed to the dugout like, ‘I ****ing told you.’ Before the game, he said, ‘I’m gonna hit a bomb.’ That was crazy.&quot;</p>&mdash; RobBiertempfel (@RobBiertempfel) <a href="https://twitter.com/RobBiertempfel/status/1468665598288830471?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 12-08-2021 01:39 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> select LHP Nelfri Contreras in the minor league Rule V draft from the Dodgers organization.<br><br>LH, 23<br><br>Career 139 2/3 innings<br>4.19 ERA, 1.561 WHIP, 8.5 K/9, 5.0 BB/9<br><br>At A ball in 2021 had 47 1/3 innings<br>3.80 ERA, 1.585 WHIP, 8.9 K/9, 4.8 BB/9</p>&mdash; Ben Cerutti (@stlfanbc7) <a href="https://twitter.com/stlfanbc7/status/1468665856859119617?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 12-10-2021 10:25 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&#39;Heir Jordan&#39; 😎<a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cardinals</a> third base prospect Jordan Walker is our latest cover athlete.<br><br>BA Insiders can access the issue early now in our app: <a href="https://t.co/OkJBVSo5wS">https://t.co/OkJBVSo5wS</a> <a href="https://t.co/vUZjDOL2IS">pic.twitter.com/vUZjDOL2IS</a></p>&mdash; Baseball America (@BaseballAmerica) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaseballAmerica/status/1468271589766705156?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ocotillo 01-16-2022 11:50 AM

International prospect list

St. Louis Cardinals ($6,262,600)

Jonathan Mejia, SS, Dominican Republic
Luis Rodriguez, C, Venezuela
Leonel Sequera, RHP, Venezuela
Arfeni Batista, SS, Dominican Republic
Junior Chirinos, RHP, Venezuela
Won-Bin Cho, OF, South Korea
Diego Dominguez, RHP, Mexico
Jovi Galvez, RHP, Dominican Republic
Yordy Herrera, LHP, Dominican Republic
Yordarlin Pena, OF, Dominican Republic
Jose Suriel, RHP, Dominican Republic
Nelfy Ynfante, RHP, Dominican Republic

Ocotillo 01-19-2022 01:27 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Three Cardinals prospects landed in <a href="https://twitter.com/BaseballAmerica?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BaseballAmerica</a>&#39;s Top 100 list:<br><br>▪️3B Jordan Walker (No. 24)<br>▪️INF Nolan Gorman (No. 34)<br>▪️LHP Matthew Liberatore (No. 50) <a href="https://t.co/l0Do6MlkvQ">https://t.co/l0Do6MlkvQ</a> <a href="https://t.co/bkCARpjp9S">pic.twitter.com/bkCARpjp9S</a></p>&mdash; Cardinals Player Development (@CardsPlayerDev) <a href="https://twitter.com/CardsPlayerDev/status/1483871705957376000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 19, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ's left nut 01-19-2022 01:51 PM

3 top 50 guys is nice, especially when Walker's come with a bullet.

Burleson, Yepez, Donovan and Herrera are all on the cusp of that list as well. Herrera is still pretty green, Burleson has defensive issues that may keep him off it and Yepez/Donavan both have pedigree questions as well as fairly short track records of success.

But any of those guys could take big jumps forward next year. And if Thompson's adjustment to leaning into his slider takes (and if he can just get his feet under him in AAA after a crazy aggressive promotion from A+) he might make his way back into the top 100 as well.

All told it's a pretty standard Cardinal prospect list apart from the hitter/pitcher breakdown being flipped. There's always more strong depth in the system than super high end guys.

VAChief 01-19-2022 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16087007)
3 top 50 guys is nice, especially when Walker's come with a bullet.

Burleson, Yepez, Donovan and Herrera are all on the cusp of that list as well. Herrera is still pretty green, Burleson has defensive issues that may keep him off it and Yepez/Donavan both have pedigree questions as well as fairly short track records of success.

But any of those guys could take big jumps forward next year. And if Thompson's adjustment to leaning into his slider takes (and if he can just get his feet under him in AAA after a crazy aggressive promotion from A+) he might make his way back into the top 100 as well.

All told it's a pretty standard Cardinal prospect list apart from the hitter/pitcher breakdown being flipped. There's always more strong depth in the system than super high end guys.

Best thing I heard this winter was (I think it was from Oquendo) that Gorman was going to be an above average defensive...
MLB second baseman.


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