You're just a dumb****, homer **** that overrates everything the Chiefs do. But hey, it's a myth that Steven Nelson sucks, right?

Spags might get Brit Reid fired LMAO

I could’ve been down for Dennis Allen too. But overall this just isn’t a bad hire at all. It comes off pretty vanilla, but when you look at the draft last year some of the picks make a lot of sense for what he will want to do.

Care to explain?

Are you talking about Spags being abrasive? He's a player's coach.

Since when can Richard only interview for HC jobs that are full, he didn't get, and after the conclusion of the Chiefs' season?

Yeah but he'd give great press conferences every single flipping year where he'd guarantee that they were going to the playoffs. That's really what's important. I really don't care if we win as long as we have a coach that can chew out the players and say outlandish things in press conferences.

JFC you really weren’t talking about Chuck :facepalm:

You’re the only person on this board that would rather have Pagano. Even the people that don’t like this hire would prefer a SB winning DC over a guy who’s done absolutely nothing of note in his career.

You want to pretend like anything good that Spags didn’t even happen because he had talent. You could literally do that with any DC that’s ever had a lot of success.

Man you don’t read between the lines at all. If I had to guess, you were probably one of the many fans who thought mahomes would suck bc he threw picks in training camp.

No. Ryan.

You're like not even close. Go hit the showers.

Do you just go around constantly making shit up? Why don't you show me the post where I said that he was the 1A-certified best choice?

Why don't you show me where I shit all over your Steve Wilks thread, too.

He's getting that from when they took Mathias Kiwanuka and used him that way.

His contract says he can only interview for HC jobs.

You know who else won SBs as DC: Peter Giunta and Greg Robinson.

You know what Dick Vermeil said when people criticized Greg Robinson: "He's won Super Bowls. You haven't."

How'd that work out for Dick Vermeil?

Lol philly fan cmon now

It’s kind of interesting

He’d be around the los a lot

Iirc, it’s similar to what the broncos did with von under wade

Didn't both of the Pagano's ride Rex Ryans coat tails into jobs?

The bigger risk is that his scheme just doesn't work anymore in the NFL. It is, after all, the old version of the scheme we're trying to move away from.

If Spags has that level of control over his position coaches he might want someone more experienced, especially considering all of Reid's experience is with the 3-4.

Just spitballing but I wouldn't be surprised to see Brit Reid "reassigned" to "defensive line assistant."

Richard has garnered a ton of respect from around the league, and if the Cowboys want to keep him onboard, they'll have to make it worth his while. Per NFL rules, however, they can veto the request by the Jets and any other team right now, making it no guarantee anyone outside of Dallas will have access to him during the playoffs and while he's still under contract. That gives the Cowboys the definitive edge in keeping him longterm, along with other variables they used to attract him to the position in the first place. There's a caveat though, because if the Jets are interviewing him for the head coaching job, the Cowboys can't say no because it's not a lateral move.

However they've written up his contract, any interview that is not for a HC position is a lateral move and the Cowboys can block it.

One of the guys you listed wasn’t an option and the other has never been a DC in their life with no ties to Reid at all, so they pretty much weren’t either.

So yes, Pagano was essentially the best you could come up with.

Source? Associate/Assistant HC would not be a promotion?

That's an odd take.

Bienemy was an RB coach and now a coordinator. I’m sure he can adjust to coaching the same position a different way. Especially when you’re only in the base 1/3 of the time.

I’m not claiming that Spags is a genius and a slam dunk hire though. The only reason I’m bringing that up is because you’re completely ignoring/disregarding it and it’s 10x more impressive than anything on John ****ing Pagano’s resume.

Also, nothing any of those guys did was as impressive as stopping the GOAT QB and one of the best offense the NFL’s ever seen holding them to 14 pts.

PASSING GAME COORDINATOR & DEFENSIVE BACKS

That's his official title from the Cowboys website.

So Chris Hewitt just isn't an option period? According to whom? People who say that it can't happen d/t risk?

You can also promote from college. Kyle Whittingham has gotten a lot of positive press.

But it doesn't really matter what I say. You'll continue to deflect, lie, make up shit from whole cloth and never source or support your claims because that's the kind of poster you are.

It's an honest question, I thought they came from Baltimore, not 100% on the time frame.

Do you really think Reid was going to turn his defense over to a guy with no playcalling experience?

Ok fine, Hewitt was an option, albeit a completely unrealistic unknown one.

The bottom line is, Andy Reid, and pretty much any offensive HC, isn’t going to hand over that side of the ball entirely to a first time DC with no connections or history whatsoever. It was never going to happen.

How is me pointing out that not a single option you’ve provided is clearly better deflecting?

Well yeah, but I wouldn't call it riding Rex Ryan's coattails. In that sense he would have ridden Mike Nolan's and Nolan rode on Marvin Lewis's.

I would say it'd be more accurate to claim they were more products of amazing Defensive drafting by Ozzie.

Clearly the chiefs showed that he wasn't an option. No interview with him kind of answers that question.

I'd rather have had Macdonald if we were going that route.

I mean yea they pretty much all came from a overly talented scheme and failed when they left.

To be fair, it seems like Reid had his mind made up from the word go.

I'm not disregarding it, I'm providing context. His recent defenses have been terrible. What he did 8-10 years ago in an entirely different league with the best DL of the last 25+ years is not germane. Buddy Ryan was once the greatest defensive mind in football. How'd that work out for him in Arizona?

You seem to think that these guys constantly stay on the cutting edge. They don't. Most coaches and coordinators have a life cycle of usefulness. Their ideas become obsolete and their schemes get exploited by younger coaches who have studied their weaknesses. It's what happened to the Tampa 2, the 4-3 stack, the two-gap 3-4, the zone blitz, and on and on and on.

Steve Spagnuolo coaching an elite 4-3 defense that faced 21 personnel almost exclusively a decade ago does not mean Steve Spagnuolo can coach a modern NFL defense. Eventually, you separate the coach from the talent and they start to show how fungible they really are. What happened to Al Saunders after he left? What happened to Gunther sans DT and Neil Smith?

And if we're talking college DC's.. Venables was the only realistic option. Still leaving you with a guy with no NFL experience coaching guys 8-10 years older than what he is used to.

Venables is also the 2nd highest paid assistant in CFB. 1.7 million per year, I think. I wanted him too, but don't think that was ever a realistic option. He's got it ****ing made at Clemson.

But Spags just had a damn good defense in 2016 with talent that was slightly above average. Any time he’s had talent he’s had a lot of success, and whe he hasn’t he’s failed. I’m not the one missing the context, it’s you.

Ya I completely agree. I do however think that's a sign that he had/has a plan in place that he is now seeing through. Especially when you look at last years draft.

It's all all over the web, and through the multiple threads. The Cowboys worded his contract so that the only move they cannot block is a HC position. And no the NFL doesn't view the Asst. HC title as a true promotion. NFL puts weight on actual duties vs. title. That is why even though he is not the Cowboys "DC" by title his duties are the same as that title and therefore only a HC job would be a promotion.

When Spags had good defenses:

“It’s because of the talent!”

When Spags had bad defenses with little talent:

“It’s because of Spags!”

Venables looks good with all that 5 star talent running around.

I just don’t think the coordinator makes a whole hell of a lot of difference. Defense is more about the Jimmy’s and the joes

What is so anathema about it?

It's a risk, sure. But so was trading up to take Mahomes.

Risks are only acceptable on one side of the ball but not the other? Since when? Do you have intimate knowledge of Andy Reid's thought processes on this matter? Moreover, why must you agree with the decision?

You are literally making the true fan "don't draft a QB" argument. "Do you really think Carl Peterson would risk drafting a QB in the first round?" Ok, so he wouldn't because he wanted a team with a baseline of mediocrity. How was that decision in retrospect? How many titles did it get him?

I agree. He was the most realistic, but that doesn't make it realistic overall. IMO spag and jack del rio should've been the most sought after for winning immediately. Kinda surprised no one has brought up del rio. I wouldn't have minded that. Familiar with the division too.

These are two completely different things.

Teams trade up for QB’s every year, but you rarely see an offensive minded HC completely hand over one side of the ball to a guy that’s never been a DC and has no history with that HC.

And Del Rio was never going to be hired in KC.

What I am curious about, is to see what bust veach tries to go after next. Cam worked out, ragland has been meh. But I'd imagine there is a player or two out there not working out with his current team that could fit in our new front 7. Especially if we get rid of ford via tag and trade.

I understand what you're saying I do, I just knew from minute 1 it wouldn't be a guy who had no experience.

Bob Sutton was good when he had talent.

Every defense around the league that’s good is stocked with talent. Sure, some guys can make the defense better than they are talent wise when they’re playing average QBs and offenses.

To beat the elites you’ve gotta have elite talent and good coaching

Why don't you actually go back and read what I wrote instead of constructing a straw man.

He didn't wreck a Ferrari in New York. Great. That means nothing for what he can do in Kansas City. We also know that he can't do anything with lesser talent which he will have here, and that his past successes were in a league that doesn't exist anymore.

Why don't you explain to me what advantages Spagnuolo will bring to the Chiefs with the way he'll coordinate a defense in the modern league. If I'm the one, "bitching just to bitch," you should be able to offer a substantive counterargument as to his bonafides. Otherwise, you're homering just to homer.

Knowing what would happen doesn't make it the right decision.

I think this has been the plan for a while. The draft last year makes a hell of a lot more sense if they’re playing the 43 under I think.

Hopefully
Maybe

Offseason 'Hamas' has risen.

Hide the women and children.

So are we just at “it needed to be someone young and up and coming”?

The fact that Richard didn't take a DC position anywhere even though he's easily a top candidate Speaks volumes. Hes not going to leave Dallas unless he's offered a Hc position, assuming Dallas doesn't offer it to him first.

That's literally what the guy you argued about for hours, Adam Gase, did with his last DC

Again, I never once said I love this hire or I’m excited about it. I think it was the best realistic option given that Bowles and Wilks were already taken. His scheme is better built to stop spread offenses than Sutton/Ryan’s, he seems to be a better leader/teacher than Sutton from what I’ve seen, and he’s definitely done a better job in big games and against Brady. All I’ve said is that he’s an upgrade, but we still need to get much better personnel wise.

Maybe the plan was to replace Sutton with Spagnuolo last year but he'd just had enough after dealing with the McAdoo bullshit and wanted a year without stress?

It's always more exciting.

I was wondering that

Just seems weird and last years draft just didn’t make a whole lot of sense

It does now, especially with speaks and dod

I don't think it was pure coincidence that we had interest in Collins and Jenkins at the trade deadline.

He pretty much is a DC. It would've been a lateral move, already has playcalling duties.

I said it’s very rare. I didn’t say it hasn’t happened at all.

Take a look around the NFL. Look at all of the DC hires this year. Do you see a trend when it comes to DC’s? It’s pretty obvious.

I agree. I want collins in KC bad.

There was a phrase uttered by a wise man who once posted here a lot (and still does, occasionally):

Better than bad does not = good.

There is precious little evidence that his scheme is better suited to stop a spread, especially since you keep conflating his old base defense with the common base defense run in the modern game.

And you know how I know you're just rehashing shit?

Bob Sutton's most common base defense in 2017 was basically the Packers' Nitro Package: 3 S and 3 CB. He wasn't even running the old Rex Ryan D the vast, vast majority of the time.

In my pipe dream mind, I was really hoping we'd look at somebody like Matt House. He would have been a great option, but it was clear from the get go that we weren't going to risk it on somebody as inexperienced as him.

Are you telling me that the vast majority of NFL coaches, who routinely play things safe to the point where they hamstring their ability for success, are extremely risk-averse and lacking in creativity?

Surely not.

Plus reid had a new qb and new coordinator. Still wanted to compete and worrying about the offense was his focus. Now he can spread his attention around slightly more if needed and further familiarize himself with his new DC in camp.

Unknown, young, and exciting doesn’t = good either

But you’re either missing my point entirely or just ignoring it. It doesn’t really matter who we hired because at the end of the day, no DC is going to have success without the talent. The bottom line is, if we give Spags the talent, he can get this defense to at least be average which is all we really need.

Hewwit and certainly Pagano would not have succeeded without talent either. You understand that, right?

Also, I’m fully aware that the 3-4 was hardly the base defense anymore.

What I’m referring to is all the man coverage, OLB’s dropping back too often (though that hasn’t been as big of a problem recently), the way his defense concedes to the run so often, etc. A lot of those things come from the 3-4 Ryan background, not that it’s an exact replica, but the fingerprints are there.

All that man coverage is good when you have the talent at all levels, but this scheme just isn’t going to work in today’s NFL without elite talent.

Bob Sutton was good when he had talent... until Manning cracked the code on how to beat his unique pass rush packages.

After that point you didn't even need Manning or his elite weapons to beat Sutton's scheme, because Sutton was incapable of adjusting. Couldn't even ****ing do it from game to game, quite honestly.

I've probably been the most vocal proponent on here of the fact that defensive coordinators can generally only **** things up. We certainly don't disagree that the Chiefs D is lacking in talent and that talent trumps scheming when it comes to defense (to an extent).

Also, if you're saying that if you give Spags the talent he can get the D to average, then you're also ignoring the fact that Sutton did the same thing (and beyond) with a more talented Chiefs defense. And given that, is the problem really the coordinator, or the personnel department?

2015 Chiefs were third in points and 7th in yards. Given that was the year they held Manning to a 0.0 passer rating, it was obviously after Manning cracked the code (because he wasn't washed before that season). But if Manning cracked the code and Sutton was unable to adjust, why was the D so good that year?

I think it’s been pretty obvious the talent is the problem going back to last year, last offseason, and early on this year, but after yet another playoff loss due to the defense it’s really hard not to say Sutton has played a role in things getting this bad.

Also, with Ford, Houston, and Jones this defense shouldn’t have been THAT bad. Especially when you consider Hitchens and Fuller not looking anything like the players they were in 2017.

We have to be one of the few defenses in history to have that many sacks and be that bad.

They were starting Orlando Scandrick for a long period of time. Yeah it was a deserving status.

Oh I know I’m talking about the evolution of the defense. By playoff time it shouldn’t have been that bad.

It wasn’t for one week, but JFC it was obvious Sutton had a lot to do with the reason why we aren’t playing next Sunday.

Has Venables ever proven he can coach a good defense when the roster isn't filled top to bottom with four and five star players? Any slapdick can coach when you have superior talent (see: Goonther). If you were going to go the college route, I would rather have someone that can consistently put out a decent defense with average players and adjust to the talent on hand.

Yeah it was mostly Sutton.

The big thing now is they've got to find a very capable MLB so the new band-aided together Defense can show some noticable improvement early.

Why are you goons still talking about Venables. They had a better chance of getting Kris Richard to come in than landing him. It was never even a starter.