Originally Posted by jjchieffan (Post 5311912)

Pardon me for being a Gunther apologist. While I too am disappointed in his defenses in his second stint, I still can't forget his defenses in his first stint. This article is a good recap of those years, which we all long to see again, and who better to bring those days back then the man who did it the first time.

Who Needs Offense With Chiefs' Defense?

By THOMAS GEORGE
Published: September 10, 1996

The Chiefs have the type of defense that can carry an offense. The Chiefs have the type of defense that can propel Kansas City into Super Bowl XXXI.

This Kansas City defense returns each starter from a unit that finished second league-wide in defense a year ago. They can rock you up the middle, catch you around the end and sprint with you downfield. They knock the ball loose. They catch it. They even score with it, sometimes more than the opponent's offense.

That was the case here on Sunday. Chiefs defense 9, Oakland Raiders offense 3. That was the subplot of Kansas City's 19-3 victory over the Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City's seventh straight over Oakland.

The Chiefs blocked a field goal, forced two turnovers, made two sacks, scored a safety and returned a fumble 80 yards for a touchdown. This was hot stuff. This was like watching cheese melt on a grill. They made the Raiders' offense look gooey and sticky, especially near the Chiefs' goal line.

Every defense needs a little help from its offense. In recent seasons, the Chiefs' offense has not done its part, which is why Kansas City has consistently been bounced early in the playoffs. While the quarterback, Steve Bono, was shaky on Sunday, the offense contributed with a running game that featured 31 rushing attempts. Kansas City is now 50-2 in the 90's when it runs 30 or more times in a game. Included in that streak is a string of 31 consecutive victories. When Kansas City can run it, coupled with this defense, this team is nearly unbeatable.

There were other ways the Chiefs' offense helped the defense. Art Shell, the Raiders' Hall of Fame tackle, used to be the Raiders head coach. He is the Chiefs' offensive line coach now.

''Art came into the defensive linemen's meeting last week and he sat down with us and told us each of their offensive linemen's strengths and weaknesses,'' said Chiefs end Neil Smith. ''That helps to hear it coming from their former coach. It helps coming from a former player. Art wants us to win and he wants to beat the Raiders. There is still some bitterness there, just like in the Kansas City-Oakland rivalry.''

Score another one for Shell. He is 3-0 now versus the Raiders. Score another one for Marcus Allen. The former Raiders running back is now 7-0 versus his old team. Score another one for the Chiefs' defense. It has scored a touchdown in each of the last four Raiders games.

This Chiefs' defense does not have a weak link.

Peek at the line. From left to right, it is Smith, Joe Phillips, Dan Saleaumua and Vaughn Booker. Smith is the most talented, Saleaumua the most gritty.

Peek at the linebackers: Derrick Thomas, Tracy Simien and Anthony Davis. Thomas gained both sacks and was responsible for the Chiefs' safety when he knocked Raiders quarterback Billy Joe Hobert silly in the end zone in the fourth quarter for the game's final points. Simien gained a second-quarter interception. Booker is a rock to block -- he is 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 293 pounds.

Peek at the secondary. It is James Hasty and Dale Carter at the corners and Mark Collins and Brian Washington at the safety position. Hasty is one of the stronger cornerbacks around (207 pounds), but he moves like a running back. Carter is a supreme talent. Collins covers as much ground as any free safety in the league and Washington (210 pounds) packs a punch at strong safety.

It was the Thomas-Hasty combination that ultimately foiled the Raiders. Opening the second half, after the Raiders had driven from their 24 to the Chiefs' 5, Thomas steamed around the Raiders left end and crushed Hobert. Hasty grabbed the loose ball and sped 80 yards for a touchdown, turning a potential tying Raiders score into a 14-0 Chiefs lead.

Take a strong defense and toss in a spectacular player and you have the makings of something special. That is the Chiefs' defense, positioned by the creative coordinator Gunther Cunningham. That is Thomas. In two games he has four sacks. He has career marks of 19 multiple sack games now, 89 sacks and 35 forced fumbles.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5312355)

Here's the deal, though.

. Marty coached well without Gunther, but Gunther has yet to coach well without Marty.

Seems pretty obvious that Gunther was piggy-backing off the coattails of Marty.

Originally Posted by jjchieffan (Post 5312205)

Back it up with stats, because I don't remember his defenses ever being inconsistent.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5312355)

Here's the deal, though.

Marty has been a head coach for three different teams where he brought a star-studded defense. THREE. In each of those teams, the team he left collapsed soon after he left.

Moral of the story? Marty is a damn good defensive coach and he's been a damn good defensive coach with AND without Gunther. Marty coached well without Gunther, but Gunther has yet to coach well without Marty.

Seems pretty obvious that Gunther was piggy-backing off the coattails of Marty.

Originally Posted by TRR (Post 5311058)

I have no clue as to why some posters on here say that Herm will be gone. He has the backing of Clark Hunt, and has done a good job collecting young talent. I am of the opinion that Herm was in a no-win situation with the shit he took over, and is finally starting to get his own players in the mix. Why change now? I think it sets us back, especially when a new coach isn't going to want to stay with Gailey.

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey (Post 5311191)

are reading the posts you quote, or just skimming over them and then spitting out more garble about Herm's three years? He came in and inherieted a team, it backed into the playoffs. Last year he wanted to do what he did this year, get rid of alot of the old timers and get some fresh young players to build upon. Last year was for carl, IMO - one more chance to complete his "five year" plan. turley wasn't what Herm wanted, he's what Carl wanted.
This year they dismantled the team and started building youth. Herm got what he wanted, he sold the change of philosophy to Clark and NOW CARL IS GONE. The team, particularly the defense endured alot of injuries. Hard to stay on schedule when you have to keep changing planes/trains.

Just looking for the silver lining.....

Originally Posted by TRR (Post 5311305)

Dismantle as in out with the old, and in with the new. Herm wanted to go young. He didn't want to hold onto aging vets, and start a guy like Damon Huard. He didn't want to keep and play a guy like Sammy Knight, Ty Law, Pat Surtain. He wanted a fresh team, with fresh players. He has that now. Let's give him a chance to see what he can do with it.

I'm all for hanging Herm like the rest of you if he can't get the job done with his players (and he supposedly has them now) but I don't believe he has had a fair chance without Carl dictating the gameplan to him.

Originally Posted by TRR (Post 5311713)

Carl Peterson brought in Ty Law. He pushed for him from the beginning. As soon as his skills eroded, he was gone and youth was in. Herm's decision again to go young.

Also, whoever was talking about dismantling a team, and teams doing that every year in the draft...not like what we did this season. KC started rookies at LT, CB, CB, DT, Nickel CB, and played second year players at DE, DT, amongst other positions. When you "dismantle" a team, it's done like Herm did it.

Originally Posted by CoMoChief (Post 5310995)

IS there any young and upcoming asst to eagles DC Jim Johnson?

Originally Posted by TRR (Post 5311156)

He made the playoffs his first season. By all accounts, Herm wanted to dismantle the team the following year, but Carl Peterson over-ruled him, and wanted to scotch tape the team together for one more run. (which failed). This year was a rebuilding year. Nobody including Clark Hunt thought KC was going to be a contender.

Now I'm not saying that Herm Edwards is the second coming, but let's give the guy a shot to win with his players, his way. Either that, or let's be like the Washington Redskins, and hire a new coach every 2-3 years, and never get anywhere.

Your looking for the quick fix, and there isn't one.