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:shrug: To be honest, I don't know? I just talked to him at Thanksgiving and he said they keep track of the cattle and he didn't think what happened was natural. He's a third generation cattle rancher and this just started happening in 2000. I'm not a cattle rancher and I wouldn't know either way.

Within the first five sentences it became clear you didn't listen to the audio... they DID have multiple cameras, they had cameras WATCHING the OTHER cameras that were perched atop telephone poles, with pvc pipe carrying the wires to the top of those cameras... if you'd listened, he tells you that the cameras WATCHING the other cameras go blank for unknown reasons and that when they went out to check them, they're found COMPLETELY destroyed.

Wires ripped from the camera base, pvc pipe carrying the wires along the pole shredded... destroyed, all while they TRIED to watch.

Tracks of a creature? you cant track something when the tracks of what you're tracking disappear in open ground.

Camera footage of supernatural creatures, pictures of anything besides cattle mutiliations and balls of light... do you REALLY think the government or Bigelow wants that to get out?

They might as well just tell the dumbass public that DEMONS AND ALIENS ARE HERE! - RUUUN!... of COURSE they aren't divulging exacting details, except to the appropriate government sources... do you really think Bigelow would be such a favorite of our government if he were some kind of radical who wants to give it all away to the PUBLIC?

Neighbors of the ranch? theres a Mr. Garcia who owns an adjacent ranch who regularly talks to journalists and seekers, he readily confirms strange goings on... not weirdos stalking the place, but orbs, cattle mutilations etc.

Fish, i firmly believe you to be a very sharp guy... but you. are. kidding. yourself about things you cant or don't want to understand... go read Kelleher and Knapps book, please just do it, then get back to me.

LMAO i mean, good. grief. LMAO

Would Bob Bigelow be a favorite of our government, a top dog in national aeronautics, if he were out there supporting kook science?... get ****ing REAL.

Oh, and he did mention he has lost upwards of 60 grand. With that kind of money involved, I'm pretty sure he keeps a close eye, as in looks for the missing cattle before the 2, 3 or 4 day's that it would take for that kind of decomposer. Again, I don't know but the guy is pretty smart with his money, that and neighbors with the same kind of loss dosent add up.

Yeah, because wild animals always remove the lips in such a neat, straight line... and they ALWAYS cauterize the wounds they make, yepper.

You're either a part of it, or not as smart as you seem, Fish.

I watched it. I didn't believe it. There's just no evidence. I understand that they have an excuse. But in the end, excuses don't eliminate the need for proof. They could give whatever excuse they wanted, but there's no evidence.

No evidence.

If they really actually had evidence, there's nothing the US government could do. The government is a bumbling shitstorm of stupid. They don't have the control. If someone seriously had proof of something that wild, it wouldn't be hard to get it out.

For the last time, I don't put much validity to somebody's stories when there's no data to confirm it. No matter who they are. If it's true, the evidence will come out. There have been claims of paranormal for thousands of years. By men ranging from peasant to king. Anything is possible. But without evidence, it can't progress further than that, and it's certainly not science.

This thread is full of amazing and borderline impossible things. So I fully acknowledge that anything is possible. But I cannot believe without any proof, no matter how awesome it would be if it were true.

Dude, these aren't my requirements for belief. These are the requirements of the scientific community. Of which I'm a complete bystander. I don't know what else to tell you. I didn't make the rules.

First off, it IS science, proclaimed and written by real scientists, not only real but GOVERNMENT FUNDED scientists who're hooked into the government like few others before them.

Among other names associated with, interested in and have visited the ranch multiple times... Dr. Jacques Vallee, Hal Putoff, Col. John Alexander.

If those men beyond the ones i've mentioned aren't enough to lend validity to the subject, if you DEMAND irrefuteable physical/pictorial proof then you are blind to just how deep and incredibly secretive our government can be... the "bomb", JFK, RFK?... they aren't SHIT compared to the compartmentalized apparatus they have around this.

"This bumble**** government couldn't hide it"... dear Father, they hid an underground CITY beneath Chicago during the a-bomb experiments, in the 40's! you really think something like this is BEYOND this countries ability to hide?

Swear on my Grandpa i'm done here, if you haven't bought a single thing i simply don't give a damn, too bad you're so locked into a comfortable worldview, where the US gov. is dumb as hell and life beyond our understanding is some kind of late night movie... still admire your persistence but, well... bye.

Dude. I mean think about this for a second. Animals appearing out of wormholes that eat cameras and leave no footsteps because they disappear? Seriously the Scientologists are snickering at that one. Nothing is impossible but the UFO stories and zombies are above this on the believability curve.

Go ask some random working scientists what they think about the possibility of hairy beasts with glowing eyes emerging from inter-dimensional portals in the Utah countryside and how scientific that work is, and see how many refrain from laughing at you.

I didn't create the scientific standards. If a few people's alleged testimonies are enough for you to believe, then that's great. But it will never suffice for science in the eyes of the scientific majority. You act like the high standards and requirements for acceptance are my doing. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2963/nnhm.jpg

Anti-aging compound: http://bit.ly/J7CTQ1
Galaxy arms: http://bit.ly/18GPrJM
Crocodiles: http://bit.ly/1fz4YtZ
Neanderthal genome: http://bit.ly/1a2cgCJ
Flowering plants: http://bit.ly/J7CUn0
Hand bone: http://bit.ly/1bZHoWG
Water on Mars: http://bit.ly/1bbkVSI
Algae to oil: http://bit.ly/1icCpXo

Happy birthday, Johannes Kepler!

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3567/lujb.jpg

Kepler was born on this day in 1571. He was a German mathematician and astronomer who is most well known for his three laws of planetary motion, the first of which states that the planets orbit around the sun in ellipses. Though he was not the first to assert the heliocentric theory, he was able to determine information about the orbits mathematically based on the planet’s distance from the sun. Kepler is regarded as one of the most important astronomers of the 17th century.

This thread has been shit for the last 2 pages. Wonder who/what caused it....

Looked up those people and they don't do ANYTHING to help your cause.

FFS, Hal Putoff who's probably the most valid person out of the 3 is a scientologist and claims to have ESP!