Is that really what you got from that sentence?

I'm saying I would rather see what Falu has at this point because of the small success he had vs what Giavotella has produced to this point. Even more so if they are both short-term options.

I have been as hard as anyone on here, I think, on Gio. But he has produced consistently at the minor league level at a much higher level than Falu.

He's hitting better than Falu this year at the same level, and Falu has really only had ONE good offensive season (last year).

Based on their minor performance and upside, Gio is more likely to be successful hitting in the major leagues than Falu.

Wil Myers is 0-2 in his MLB debut today.....BUST!!!! :p

I'm not a guru like some of the baseball fanatics on this board (yourself included). I'm just thinking of winning now, and HK can help this team today.

To be fair...the Red Sox have Aceves pitching. His 5 ERA is pretty daunting.

I think all of us envisioned a day when Odorizzi and Myers were playing in the majors together.

For Tampa.

I'm cool.

Fair enough.

So you'd be cool with targeting Alex Rios or Chase Utley if they can help MORE today, right?

I cooled quite a bit on Odorizzi's ultimate upside during the course of last season. I don't think the kid ever develops the breaking pitch he needs to be a legitimate No. 2 starter (his upside when acquired), but he'll be a solid 3/4 for a while, I think.

Myers, who knows what's going to happen. His massive K rates are a real concern, IMO. I still think Jay Bruce is kind of his "best-case scenario" but time will tell.

Interesting to note: Royals are 11-3 in June, but are still struggling to play catch-up with the Tigers who are 10-5 this month. Even though the Royals are hot, the Tigers are making it tough.

I still think Odorizzi will be a AAAA pitcher. Even in AAA, a lot of his outs were deep flyouts that MLB power will turn into homeruns, imo.

True. Just think though, we could be completely buried right now. We're hanging in there.

Odorizzi made two starts with Tampa and got pretty beat up.

Sure

Also noticed today that Felipe Paulino's rehab start got put off due to back stiffness.

For the rest of June, the Tigers have two more against Baltimore, 4 against Boston, three against the Angels, and three against Tampa for their next 12 games.

We have two more against Cleveland, three against CWS, two against Atlanta, and three against Minnesota. I think we should be able to make up a few games throughout the rest of this month.

Assuming we don't start slumping again.

Just keep winning 2 out of 3 and we will be fine.

Yeah, he's fine as a utility guy/pinch running specialist. But he is not good enough to play every day on a real offense.

Joel Goldberg ‏@goldbergkc
#Royals trainer Nick Kenney says RHP Felipe Paulino will return to KC from rehab assignment due to lower back discomfort. Precautionary & Paulino not expected to be out long. Don't want any complications due to back to affect elbow or shoulder.

In his career Elliot Johnson has 583 ABs which is about a single season's worth. In those ABs he has 19 2B, 5 3B, 12 HR, 58 RBI, 34 SB, and a .228 BA.

On a team that values defense and has a need for good baserunning, especially from that position, would we not be content to get a season of that from our second baseman? Heck look at all that power! Johnson needs to start getting everday playing time if we aren't going to be making a move for significant upgrade. Those are pretty decent numbers that we could certainly live with from a throw in player.

If one good thing can come from last night it would be Getz riding the pine on a much more regular basis after butchering his last AB.

FYP

I live in the real world. :p

I figured... while we're talking about 'good things' that last night can create, why not talk about the best 'good thing' possible?

Dayton Moore's biggest failing, by far, as a GM is his complete and blind loyalty to shitty players like Getz, Francoeur, Davies, Hochevar, Ramirez, Colon, etc.

GMs are going to make mistakes. That's fine. The problem is compounding the mistake by continuing to roster the mistake well past the point of obvious failure.

Oh, yeah. No big deal.

Definitely. I don't think we will be lucky enough to see both Getz and Francoeur DFA in the near future, but I am really thinking that once a decision has to be made on Dyson, Frenchy will be the odd man out.

Drop Getz and pull up Johnny G. already. Johnson bats better as a lefty, so we could use Johnny G. to rest either Johnson or Moose against tough southpaws. Getz, as another lefty, is inferior and redundant.

Talking about getting rid of losers is all well and good, but it's not gonna happen. This team crappy players that "try hard".

All decent numbers except for that .228 BA. Also, you forgot to mention the .283 OBP and 176 strikeouts. A guy who hits fewer than 40 HR per year should not be striking out 176 times.

I agree. Given our options, unless we actually make a significant move to improve, for the forseeable future Johnson has to play more than Getz.

I haven't looked at the numbers, but generally a player like this has steep splits that favor one side, which means you cannot just say "give him a full season and he'll hit like this" because it would really be much worse.

Are you talking about batting left vs right? If so, given the differences in ABs the numbers are basically the exact same as far as totals for HRs, etc. The only big difference is in BA. Batting right is .199 and left is .248. Interestingly though, the OBP is .282 and .287 respectively.

Would four years of Greg Holland be enough to net a prospect like Castellanos or Tavares?

No.

Relievers just don't have that much value, unless you're selling to a team that's desperate at the deadline. And even then, you're doing good to get a top 100 prospect, let alone a top 25 or top 5 guy.

Yeah, I absolutely agree he should be playing instead of Getz. But it's like saying Brady Quinn should play over Matt Cassel. We need a real player.

I'd like to see them upgrade at 2B both defensively and offensively (from Getz, anyway - hard to imagine an upgrade from Johnson's D). But I can live with Johnson playing 2B if they acquire a RF with some thump.

Alex Rios + Johnson would be more attractive to me than, say, any 2B-David Lough (or Jarrod Dyson playing everyday in CF with Cain in RF) combo that doesn't involve Chase Utley.

Johnson would've gotten that bunt down.

Free Elliot Johnson!!!

I haven't paid any attention to Rios, but wasn't he a giveaway just a few years ago?

That had a lot to due with his contract. 7 yrs for $70 million for a guy that was good but not great. The Blue Jays regretted that contact the moment it was signed.

bahahaha, Keitz callin Moose a fat, soft, white pussy

Yes, the White Sox got him for basically nothing. I don't remember if it was here or elsewhere, but I was contending the Royals should put in a claim on him at that time.

He had a bad year in Toronto and was easier to dump than Vernon Wells, so they dumped him.

Any chance they try to get rid of him at the trade deadline?

If we can manage to get in a real race with the Tigers we will have to have a Tigers thread where we root for them to lose.

Here is his contract info:

2013 32 Chicago White Sox $12,500,000
2014 33 Chicago White Sox $12,500,000
2015 34 Chicago White Sox $13,500,000*

*$13.5M Team Option, $1M Buyout, Trade escalates 2015 option by $500k.

Slim chance unless the Sox pick up a part of the contract.

He's a hell of a lot better than Getz. No argument there.

He's been floated as a real trade option. They're a long way from contention and need to blow some things up and bring in more fresh, young talent.

No idea what the asking price will be, though.

He'd make a hell of a lot of sense and probably is better than any RF options available in FA this offseason (Hunter Pence is the only guy who really is close).

So until he gets his average over his weight (he needs to hit .212) we call him "Fatsoftwhitepussy" or "Fatsopussy" for short.

Not sure why all the hate on Moose. The dude shows more competitive fire than most on the team. I'm sure he's much more disappointed in himself then any of the fans are. I don't recall him saying any shit that would warrant fans turning on him. You can see in his at bats that he's trying to make adjustments in his swing. Now taking a look at someone like Frenchy last year, when performing poorly, he looked to make NO adjustments and was reportedly in on Seitzer getting let go. I can hate on that. Should Moose have been sent down? Most likely. But that's up to management, not a call that he makes. Dude looks like he's been beatdown from this. I really hope it changes

1. Not true. He's been a lazy POS lately, so much so that he was called out by Hud of all people.
2. Because he sucks, currently. Produce or GTFO, and it's time for Moose to do the latter.

Don't think his going down the line is because he's lazy. Disgusted in himself is more like it. Hud is a ****ing moron if you haven't noticed yet

Sometimes that's the best a person can do in life

Well lets just hope this isn't his best.

Give Moose a participation ribbon.
Take him out for ice cream.
Let his mom give him a big hug.

Then put him on a bus to Omaha.

Sounds like a plan. He'd probably agree with you

If I'm not producing for shit, putting in a lackluster effort sounds like a great plan.

Statistically, this team is a game worse than it should be because of MooseShit; dude is below replacement value, and he needs to go.

Chris Perez is sucking it in AA ball in Akron. Heh...
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index...r_chris_7.html

Im just wondering how long they give this guy a shot at the permanent 3B job? They cant just hand the job to him next season if he bats sub .200 for this year. They better start looking at plan b alternatives in the offseason.

Seriously? You don't understand why fans are mad at a guy who's hitting .189 and has 12 RBIs in 221 plate appearances?

Coming off a second half last year that wasn't much better....

I like the guy, but this is professional baseball.

Exactly. give me an an a-hole that hits .300 rather than a nice guy who hits .180 any day of the week.

Oh I don't know, maybe because he sucks shit? Defending Mouse is like defending Cassel. It'll never end well at this point.

great analogy
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If even we could have a poor man's slugger like Mark Reynolds. Slug .450, .220 average but consistent 30-35 homers. Even that would be a significant upgrade in the middle of our lineup.

Yes this.

Where is this years Jermaine Dye, Mike Sweeney (99-01), Jeff King, Dean Palmer, Gary Gaetti or Danny Tartabull??

Cassel bragged about his performance. I've never heard Moose do that

Or last year's Billy Butler.

GIVE US BOB HAMELIN, DAMMIT.

Danny Duffy had another tough night.

4.2 IP, 4 ER, 5 H, 4 BBs, 5 Ks

Even the garbage Padres are 36-36. We are worse than them

Royals sign Manaea this morning, according to Jim Callis of Baseball America. He's reporting a $3.55 million signing bonus.

Basically, the success of this draft hinges on Manaea getting healthy and returning to the form that had him looking like a top 5 lock and possible No. 1 overall pick entering the college season.

Oh, and Dozier debuted last night with Idaho Falls... 2/4 with a RBI. I'd like to see him dominate there and get to Burlington in the next month or so, so they can get him moving through the system more quickly next season. He played 3B ... still hoping they give him a shot at 2B.

This has been posted at other Royals sites, thought it might as well go here, too. (CAUTION: Those with high blood pressure or at risk of hypertension should not read it.)

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...oor-walk-rate/

First thing I thought of while reading that was posted in the first comment in the story. The A's play in a big ballpark and walk all the time. The reason pitchers have no problem attacking the zone is because the hitters are ****ing terrible. That is why they don't fear attacking the zone and worry about giving up HRs.

I pray this was just "media talk" but if not, the Royals will never win anything with this dufus in charge.
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Whats your current take on Moose? Do you think he will ever play up to potential and become a 30+ 100 RBI guy? Or should the Royals be looking at alternatives?
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Yes. If this is spin, it's merely insulting.

But if it represents their philosophy, we're fooked.

Based on results, I fear it's the latter.

Don't bother asking him for Moose analysis - he was ripping me in May for wanting him sent down. Then a couple weeks later he completely changed his tune and agreed with me.

His floor (bust chance) is lower, but the ceiling remains the same.

I don't think the window is closed on Moustakas being that guy/playing up to that potential, but I do think it's a lower percentage chance than it was at one time (especially a year ago today, when it looked like he had started maturing INTO that player).

It's more likely he is a .260/25/.300 OBP/.475 SLG guy than a .280/.330/.550 SLG guy at this point. That still plays at 3B if he's above-average defensively. And probably still is "plus."

As for alternatives... in-system, you're looking at Orlando Calixte and Cheslor Cuthbert. Both are at Northwest Arkansas. Calixte got off to an awful start (sub-.600 OPS in April) but has posted a .771 and .819 OPS in May and June, respectfully. He's a SS right now but likely a 2B or 3B in the show. Calixte likely finishes the year at NWA and starts next season at Omaha. Mid-season 2014 is probably his earliest arrival date.

Cuthbert was terrible a year ago but has really bounced back. He put up very nice numbers in Wilmington for a RH power bat (.771 OPS) and has flashed nice extra-base pop since being promoted to NWA (he's 4/26 at the plate but all 4 hits have been extra base knocks).

He's probably a half-season behind Calixte in development.

There's also Dozier, who started at Idaho Falls and probably moves to Burlington fairly soon.

None are able to contribute this year, though, and unless Calixte just goes off, probably not at the start of next season, either.

If Moose doesn't turn it around, you can either count on him to figure it out NEXT year or try to bring in someone through FA. I'd hope for the latter but am not counting on it...

I don't think it's possible to underestimate just how bad the coaching was post Seitzer and pre Brett. You could literally see, just as a fan, how off balance Moose, Hosmer, and Frenchy were. They were just hacking away, lunging at balls in the dirt and looked clueless. Their approach was shit, their mechanics were shit, and the results were shit.

I don't see that now out of Hosmer and Moose, and even Frenchy is squaring up better. We're not really seeing the results from Moose yet, but I think the mechanics are better and that results will come. I know it's been a about a full season of sub Mendoza line at this point, but I really do think he's coming around. Hosmer is starting to get around on the inside fastball, so I'm looking for his power numbers to start creeping up.

Anyway, my point is that the whole 'we're going to hit more home runs' thing was a horrible idea that set in a terrible approach that really ****ed these guys up. I think that's going to happen when you take guys who are probably 20 HR guys and try to turn them into 35 HR guys.

And who's to blame for that? Who's the guy who orchestrated all of that, and whined for that approach?

Ned Yost. Just another nail in his coffin.

I'd argue that these failings are more on DM than Yost, though I understand what you're saying.

Yes, the manager is responsible for his staff, but only to an extent. The GM must provide oversight and ensure that the manager isn't completely stepping in it.