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Chris Young is an interesting name too, but his BA has been low, and his inconsistency scares me. Geez, did Jacoby Ellsbury really hit 32 HR and steal 39 bases with an OPS of .928 in 2011? WOW. |
Hunter Pence's swing sucks.
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I just hope we get a decent 2B soon
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I think it is pretty ****ing funny that people were complaining about Holland and saying he wasn't 'elite' but now you look at his K/9 and his ERA at 2.05 and he is clearly a top 5 closer in baseball
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He's somewhat quietly having a very brilliant season. |
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I'll give you a hint: It's the guy who is 82nd in WAR right now. |
the fact that he puts Johnson in there is absolutely laughable.
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If he had said Rivera, Grilli, Nathan, Mujica, Kimbrel, Romo, Balfour, Papelbon, Henderson, and Wilhelmsen his statement could have merit... the inclusion of Johnson makes anyone with half a brain roll their eyes and chuckle.
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Ws, Ss, Rs, RBI.... all stats that are dependent on teammates. It's nice Jim Johnson saved 50+ last year... but he still doesn't stack up well in advanced value measurements (23rd overall in 2012). He's saving a ton of games because he's getting a ton of opportunities. You can put a lot of other closers in that spot and get the same (or better) results. Holland is better at every aspect of pitching except for limiting walks (he walks about 2x as many guys as Johnson but strikes out 2.5x as many guys). He crushes Johnson in a lot of the key metrics for relievers (K:9, K:rate, xFIP). And I mean crushes. As in "not close." But still, it's not what was really funny about your statement. It was including ALL of those guys with the likes of Rivera and Papelbon and Kimbrel. Most of them are at least having seasons that put them in elite territory. Johnson is not. Lots of guys have had seasons where they were brilliant before falling off. Time will tell if guys like Grilli, Mujica, Reed, etc. can sustain it. That's what separates guys like Papelbon, Kimbrel and Rivera. Greg Holland is an excellent reliever. Only Jon Papelbon and Kimbrel have contributed more WAR since 2011, when both Johnson and Holland seem to have found their stride. Mariano Rivera is likely above him as well, without the injury last season. |
C&O'sFan is like that kid at recess that bounces from sport to sport on the playground. Always the last pick and nobody wants him around, even though he does have moments where he plays mildly decent.
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As we all knew pretty well about Guthrie when we got him, he is built to pitch in Kauffman.
At home: 5 games, 4-1, .205 BA, .612 OPS, 2.78 ERA Away: 7 games, 2-2, .315 BA, .928 OPS, 4.40 ERA |
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Not getting into this with you. Just a heads up Johnson not a SO pitcher so i really don't care about that stat. Most GM in baseball would take Johnson over Holland. Gotta love Royal fans got the best player at every position yet every year still 15 to 20 games under .500. |
Johnson has .2 war vs Holland at .8
Even last year Johnson was only 1.2 vs Holland at 2.2. |
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Most of our players suck ass. The reason you're getting blasted is because Holland ISN'T ONE OF THEM! Is that easy enough for you to understand or do I need to dumb it down for you more? |
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As if both franchises being amongst the worst in MLB having anything to do with the discussion at hand. BTW, I love the strawman argument you threw in there. That was right on queue with simply marvelous anticipation and timing. |
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Go back 3 years. Look at whatever advanced stat you want to look at: WAR K rate K:9 K:BB FIP You'll see Greg Holland dotting top 10s all over the place. And even with all of that in place, I still wouldn't put him in the same territory as Papelbon, Kimbrel and Rivera because of the longevity/consistency issue. I'd feel fine saying he's one of the 10 or so best closers in MLB. Jim Johnson has saved a bunch of games the past year and a half. And that's a good accomplishment. But he doesn't have the high K ability to be a truly elite, lights-out closer. Jim Johnson is good. He's effective. But he's not all that special (and I doubt he's a guy who's an above-average closer for a long period of time... groundball specialists just don't stick in that spot very often or for very long) |
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Oh we're talking about Jim Johnson, not Chad Johnson
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It's not like they frequently need to strand runners or be able to pitch out of jams to preserve a lead... |
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Let's change directions...
So Grady Sizemore is beginning baseball activities this week and could be ready to play again soon. How much would you be willing to spend on a Sizemore flyer? In all likelihood, he is never again close to the player he was, but on the off chance he is... I'd be fine with seeing KC offer $3-5 million for Sizemore and taking a chance on him regaining his form. Assuming he's healthy NOW, of course. With Dyson coming back, you have insurance. And can give Sizemore a lot of rest when needed. |
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Sizemore in no way resembles Francoeur as a player. He's patient, takes walks, and posted 4 seasons that were better than Francoeur's best by the time he was 26. Sizemore, when healthy, was a complete hitter who worked counts, got on base, and punished mistakes. He also played a very solid CF and could easily handle RF. Oh, and he was a much better baserunner than Francoeur, stealing bases at a 76 percent clip (compared to Francoeur, who is successful just under 60 percent of the time). |
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That would be a pretty nice element to add to the Royals' offense. I wouldn't put all eggs in that basket, but if he's willing to come back for a few million dollars and you can sign him, what's the harm? |
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Hand-eye and strike zone judgment should be fine. Only question is if his lower half/core is strong enough to regain his pop. BCD - I'm discussing it outside of having to wheedle to Glass for cash/look bad doing it. That's definitely a road block. But who knows how much he's going to want? Playing time is probably the biggest issue for him, and if he's healthy, KC can offer that. I'd put fairly low odds (10 percent?) on him being able to regain his former hitting form (when he was a .850+ OPS guy). And slightly better but still low (30?) odds on him hitting the line I was projecting. Either way, if you're paying him $3 million or less for the second half, you get good return on the investment (with potential for AMAZING return). But if you're KC, I think you have to be creative to compete. Say KC gets to the end of June with a record that's three games over .500. It's likely they have done that with an offense that's still below-average. Maybe a trade for a bat is easier than it looks like it will be at the moment. We've talked about that in this thread quite a bit. But I'm just a little intrigued about picking the guy up off the scrap heap for no prospect cost. If they're truly in contention, I wouldn't want to to be the ONLY pick up. But it offers upside that few other options can match... |
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Also the Royals have signed Dozier for 2.2 million.
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I think a more realistic option is to identify somebody at AAA who is blocked and try to get him at a non-Ventura price. Kind of like Ryan Shealy. |
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That's only $1 million under slot. Add in the 700k of budget "stretch" KC has before penalties set in, and you're looking at a maximum offer to Manaea of around $3.3 million. This is why they drafted the guys they did in rounds 5-10. They'll make minimum offers to those guys that will be enough to sign then, and dump the extra cash towards Manaea. |
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Escobar was better than Hardy in 2012 at the plate and in the field and was worth about an additional win. I made the mistake of thinking a young player had figured it out and found a consistent level at the plate, coming off a season and a half of improvement at the plate. Escobar has obviously cratered with the bat this season and regressed badly. Please point out a way in which Johnson is better than Holland OTHER than a counting stat dependent on his team or in walking fewer batters/9. |
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Duncan, no homo but I love listening to your Royals takes.
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Jim Johnson 2012- 51 for 54 in saves 2013- 21 for 25 in saves Greg Holland 2012- 16 for 20 in saves 2013- 12 for 14 in saves Give Holland 54 chances to close a game do you really think he ends up with 51 saves ? |
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Meanwhile, this year, Holland is demolishing Johnson in pretty much every meaningful statistical categoy with a significantly worse babip. (Holland .348/Johnson .310)
Johnson's babip last year? .251. Good luck repeating that. |
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And given Holland's skill set, sure, I could see him going 51-for-54 in one neat year. |
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One thing that should be noted: Holland is 28/31 in save opportunities as the closer. His figures last year include three blown saves when he was the setup man (all of which involved inherited runners, something a closer almost never has to worry about). At that conversion rate, he'd save 49 games (OK, 48.8) if given 54 opportunities. Very small difference from Johnson (3 percent). Also, it's not like Johnson is continuing to convert at that 94 percent close rate he did a season ago. If he gets to the end of the year and is over 50 saves with another 90+ percent close rate, I'll give him props. But I'd bet on his conversion rate staying in the low 80s, like it is now. Which is nothign to be ashamed of but nothing really special either. |
Don't ever change, Orioles fans.
I first experienced their like in late 2003, when discussions began on an extension for Albert Pujols. The Cardinals were a little worried about breaking the $100 million/barrier and there were significant concerns that the Cards would lose him when his team controlled years lapsed three seasons later. So the Orioles fans started coming up with trade offers to do us a solid and take him off our hands for us. Afterall, WTF use would we have had for 3 years of Albert Pujols? (For the record, in those 3 years from 2004-2006, the Cardinals won 100+ games twice, 2 pennants and a World Series, so even had they not extended him, that was his value...) I shit you not, they were building trade proposals around David Segui and Jay Gibbons. Guys were getting legitimately offended at the mere possibility of including Matt Riley or Jerry Hairston in the deal. It ended up being shit like: Segui Bigby Cust (and this was a huge concession) Lopez Ainsworth for Pujols. Orioles fans - they're classic. They're just completely out of touch with reality. |
I knew we'd had this conversation before...
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Orioles fans - you guys just suck. |
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In which we were told he wasn't that good and we should be happy to get Jake Arrieta OR Brian Matusz (but not both!), Xavier Avery, and MAYBE Jon Schoop? |
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That's what I was posting about earlier. I was in shock at the O's board and their absurd proposals for Butler and/or Myers. They thought they ddin't have to surrender anything. Other boards weren't absurd. So it had to be the O's morons. And you just destroyed their fanbase. I loved it. A highlight of the offseason. |
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Hopefully we end up with one more win than the O's. That's all I really want out of this season at this point.
We will never have to see that dipshit post in a royals thread again Posted via Mobile Device |
[QUOTE=duncan_idaho;9741995]Was that the Billy Butler argument?
Every fan base brings up dumb trades. Billy Butler is a good player but DH only players and Base to Base players don't have much value. |
[QUOTE=ChiefsandO'sfan;9742040]
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[QUOTE=ChiefsandO'sfan;9742040]
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5.5 games back of these assholes
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I wouldnt trade away Moose or Hosmer for anything
Signed, 2011 |
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[QUOTE=ChiefsandO'sfan;9742040]
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Getz for Machado, straight up.
Look at all that power VVV |
Frenchy for Dustin Ackley.
Ackley hitting .408/.508/.592 in AAA. |
Getz is close.- Yost
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Not what it says here Posted via Mobile Device |
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