Other teams will value him more than we do also. The nfl forgets quickly. Only chiefs fans will look at his injury history as a major deterrent for a long term deal. A pass rush starved team with a gm looking for a quick move to help his job.. I think a 1 and 2 is where I’d start talking but I’d settle for a 1 and a 3 or 4 and the market will be out there.

Same thing we went through when Sutton was hired. After the indy debacle, I rode Sutton hard about being trash... Took shit from everyone while Alex was shitting the bed and the defense couldnt always win games.

4 years later....

Yes! It happens all the time.

Some won't because of age, but most of them would.

Joe Woods was supposed to be the next best thing when he took over for Wade Phillips. His units weren't even close to being as good as Wade's. Al Holcomb was supposed to be a rising star last year as a new coordinator. Best Woods and Holcomb did was passing game coordinator for their new teams.

Defensive coordinator is not a place head coaches go to break in new guys. Retreads are all over the league. Belichick is going to a retread next year in Schiano too.

You didn't know 90% of the names on that list did you?

So what is it? You called Sutton trash but were saying the defense couldn't always win the game? Seems pretty contradictory.

I never liked the Sutton hire. This dude shut down the best offense of all time in the Super Bowl. Not some bs regular season win. If you look at his shit seasons it was all bad situations.

He had a really nice year for Tampa. He's probably going to be a big part of a hybrid defense Bowles will run.

Welcome to CP

SHAWN BARBER EXPLAINS HOW SPAGS IS AS A COACH HERE

I think he's pretty big into playing in particular systems. Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

Will also be interesting to see if the Giants keep Janoris Jenkins or let him go.

Nice deflection.

I think Landon Collins could be someone to look out for that spag would want

People always view this stuff with homer glasses. One week ago, all the talk around here was how the Chiefs' defense was actually good at home. Rather than looking at what QBs they had faced at home (almost all shit), they ignored the warning signs.

Steve Spagnuolo is a guy that had a couple of good defenses a decade ago when he had DE's like Strahan (HOF'er) Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, and JPP.

In 2007, his three best DE's combined for over 300 career sacks.
In 2011, his three best DE's combined for over 210 career sacks.

No shit he had good defenses back then. Christ, Greg Robinson could have coordinated a great unit with that talent.

The best thing you can say about him is that when he had the best DL of the last generation he didn't **** it up, but that's damning with faint praise.

Even in 2016 he had two good-great ends and three All-Pro DBs. No one could **** that up.

I don't see the Giants letting Landon Collins go.

And when he had bad defenses he didn’t have much talent, but you continue to ignore that part.

DC’a need talent and a good situation to be successful. It’s not that complicated.

He's actually exactly right, There are very few 1st time DC's doing a good job in the NFL. And with Andy Reid and the way he approaches the defensive side there was no way he was ever going with a dude who had never done it before.

You can say retread all you want but the truth is, what happens if they hire a 1st time DC and he isn't cut out for basically being completely in charge of his side of the ball? You're talking about a total meltdown that season.

Bad defenses and bad talent sounds a lot like what he'll have here.

Ken Norton looked like the worst DC in the NFL when he was with the Raiders.

This year in Seattle, he did a damn good job with that D.

Fair to say an experience DC had a total meltdown in KC this year, and a few other critical playoff games during his tenure...

I'm still not a huge fan of it, but with the pass rush last year generating that many sacks, I think Spags will get the most out of that.

I'm going to be very curious to see what position coaches stay on staff.

Pete Carroll runs that defense.

So it wouldn’t have mattered who we hired because there’s not a DC in the NFL that can make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Might as well just skip the draft a free agency too.

It could actually end up worse than that...you can bitch and all but guess what look at the numbers, Who has done well never being a DC before? Who are the hot young DC's in the league right now?

It's an honest question I don't think this current team is the time to roll with a dude with no experience.

Exactly! The ppl saying this shit probably don’t know Belichick used to be a sub .500 coach with the browns lol. You gotta have talent at some point.

It's tough for me to say they have bad talent when Hitchens played a lot better in Dallas and other teams were interested in him, and they have 3 guys who could post double digit sacks.

They need more secondary talent and will potentially need to figure out a MLB or SLB, but there are pieces to work with.

They certainly aren't. The head coach isn't going to be involved in anything defense related.

There's very, very few teams that are taking chances on first-time DC's. The only ones doing that are defensive head coaches.

I don't think it's so much of an thing where the Chiefs took a retread as it doesn't seem like he really did a coaching search at all and tripped allover his dick to hand the job to someone in his inner circle.

The Chiefs have proven you can have a ton of sacks and still have a really bad defense, and they did that without relying on the blitz. If you add a blitz-happy DC you'll probably notice an uptick against young/bad QBs, but what happens when you face QBs that thrive against the blitz, especially if you don't have press-man corners?

This feels exactly like a move from the Pioli years.

Oh shut the **** up. There are like two guys who really ****ing hate this hire and are predicting doom. Everyone else seems to have wanted somebody else but is at least slightly intrigued about some of the new possibilities with alignments we can try out. Re-purposing players is sometimes the key to unlocking a player's full potential, like it was for Derrick Johnson in 2009.

That’s not true at all. The point of firing Sutton is bc the sum was worse than the individual talent. He will get way more out of the talent we have, or at worst break even- something Sutton couldn’t do.

Who would you have hired?

Would some of you really rather have had Mike Smith as your DC?

Didn't ****ing think so.

That's legit the only reason I'm even lukewarm on this hire. The mere thought of hiring within had me ****ing pissed off.

So if we tag & trade Ford, does the team that gets him have the same rights as we do - potentially to franchise him another 2 years?

If we just let him walk we get a 3rd rounder basically?

I don't think many, not on CP at least, are doing cartwheels over the hire. There are no homer glasses. Any positive comments are basically saying it won't be hard to be better than Sutton and top 25 is a more than achievable bar for spagnuolo. I certainly don't think claims that he's a consistent bottom 2 defense are at all fair based on what was going on during those seasons.

I don't agree at all about the Pioli years. Spags loves zone blitzes. I'm not sure how much press-man he ran, but the zone blitz was a staple of those Giants teams from what I remember.

The secondary was completely lost. There were more blown assignments this year than I can recall ever happening. That has to change. There was a massive communication breakdown and that's probably the biggest task for him to fix.

I think that is the problem, there is bitching to bitch because who else were you gonna hire?

Hewitt and McDonald weren't options here with no playcalling experience, Kris Richard wasn't getting out of Dallas...at that point who are you left with?

The only good argument for an experienced DC that isn’t a ****ing jack ass like Rex would be Jack del rio, who seems committed to the bengals. For winning the Sb next year this was the right hire even if it’s boring to some of you.

Btw I don't remember anyone around here being that jacked about getting Reid - and that's worked out pretty well.

If two of those guys post double digit sacks by blowing all responsibility or ability to stop the run in the process they are more rotational players than building blocks.

Regarding Hitchens--it's not like the scheme was complicated. The counterargument is that playing alongside other elite LBs made him look better than he was.

I think the acquiring team would have a long-term deal in place for him if they are trading.

If anything we can stop paying a bajillion dollars for safeties as even his good defenses didn't need all pros there.

Hamas shit on my thread about Wilks before he got fired, so I know he wouldn’t have even been happy with a hire like that had he been available.

Seriously, that guy is 100% bitching just to bitch.

Yes, he could play on the tag and then they could tag him once more. If he walks it depends on what he gets in FA. He’d probably get a huge deal so we’d get a 3rd rd comp pick the following year.

It was seriously Rex Ryan or Spags...or an in house hire and no one wanted that.

Yes, he could play on the tag and then they could tag him once more. If he walks it depends on what he gets in FA. He’d probably get a huge deal so we’d get a 3rd rd comp pick the following year.

Yep. Just fired Sutton and started the search a couple of weeks (or a year, depending on who you ask) too late.

Kris Richard is the obvious top target. John Pagano and Chris Hewitt would be others.

Stop avoiding my question.

Who the **** would you have hired? What sure fire defensive mastermind are we all forgetting about here?

WTF are you talking about?

Guess this means goodbye Dee Ford.

He has zero place in a 43 alignment.

Apparently Kris Richard calls plays and is the de facto DC in Dallas. Has to be a HC interview, unless Dallas grants permission (which I'm assuming they wouldn't)

Kris Richard was in no way getting out of Dallas, they can block anything that isn't a HC interview.

Don't forget about Rags and Dirty Dan! Interception machines!

Kris. Richard. Wasn’t. An. Option.

Chris Hewitt has absolutely no experience as a DC

And John Pagano? LMAO you can’t possibly be this ****ing stupid

Pagano? Wtf.

How can you throw his name in there and then shit on Spagnuolo or other veteran DCs. Pagano didnt exactly set the world on fire with his SD defenses.

Why?
So?
Why?

I’d have rolled Rex Ryan 10/10 times, less risky... AND you have a chance for a top 10 defense next year

Richard said today that there are some head coaching jobs he would decline to stay with the Cowboys. He was never realistic.

Pagano was a pretty meh coordinator with the Chargers. He was terrible in Oakland.

Hewitt, who knows, but it doesn't seem like the league wants young DC's.

I think I would have liked John Pagano even less.

Sutton’s scheme actually was very complicated if you’ve ever heard ppl talk about it. That’s why there were a lot of communication breakdowns that led to blown coverages. And if you watched, you’d notice hitch was trying to read things before reacting. It made him look slow but really he was taking a second to read what he needed to do.

Agreed. Pagano has had virtually zero success in this league.

Ryan is actually more risky because he and Reid are like oil and water as personalities and his defense is outdated these days.

Except the risk that his defense is no longer relevant in the NFL and that he'd be unwilling to change it.

Shawn Barber was talking about it today I think. He was a coaching intern with the Chiefs and said Sutton's scheme wasn't simple.

Exactly. This guy is a ****ing idiot and always has been.

To call Spags an “atrocious” hire when the best you got is John ****ing Pagano?

LMAO

Rex has also been in the media for a couple years

I doubt he’s really up on the league as he would need to be

The risk with Rex is his personality. Wouldn’t have meshed with how reid wants his team handled. Especially in the media.

Yeah, Rex could be either really good or it could be a completely combustible situation and could totally lose a locker room.

I still would have liked Ray Horton

I think that may have been the biggest issue, sometimes the best defensive just man up and play hard and fast.

The Chiefs look like a team that thinks way to much on that side.

Sutton's system was pretty complex and I really doubt he was working all that hard to teach it to the younger guys, which is why he always stuck with his old vets even if they sucked out loud.

I think Hewitt would have been my top choice, along with bringing in someone like Dick LeBeau to be a senior advisor till he got established. Oh well.

Rex definitely looked like a boom or bust hire on the surface. Like SB champs or **** everything up type of hire.

And I think that will be the biggest immediate difference. Less thinking and just getting back to playing ball.

Spags has at east proven that if you give him the talent, he can produce a SB caliber defense.

What in the ****ing bloody hell has John Pagano EVER proven?

I’m convinced this dumbass thinks he’s talking about Chuck.

Yes, let's hire a DC who is infinitely more abrasive with his approach to coach the exact same goddamn shitty ****ing scheme that players were already getting frustrated with. What could go wrong?!?

Ranks:

16, 9, 20, 21, 23

For those worried about experience, he'd done it before. Didn't have great talent, and never coordinated defenses as bad as the ones either Sutton or Spagnuolo have. Also has done a good job in Houston and isn't archaic.

The fact you asked that says why.

I agree it's not a young and exciting name but I'd take this over Rex 100 out of 100 times. Chiefs fans obsession with Rex Ryan is just so bleh. The guy hasn't done squat in a decade either, but gives good press conferences and that's what the fans love I guess. Might as well just throw dynamite in the locker room and save yourself the time.

Spags is going to need talent, but I think that's true regardless. The truly great defenses have been loaded with talent. There aren't many Bill Belichick's out there making chicken salad. I don't really care about the 4-3/3-4 thing. We just need someone who can put out a defense that is disciplined and can make adjustments. We shall see.

Great stuff, especially what Barber said about Spags coaching the position coaches vs Sutton who left them alone. Also interesting about Ford possibly playing SAM linebacker.