I’m just telling you what I saw.

I do know that it was pretty rare that he was pressured period. His OL and the talent he had around him made it look easy most of the time. I saw a guy that the minute Georgia started getting some pressure, he struggled.

I’d take Mayfield because he has better accuracy.

He did get crushed in the 4th quarter and didn’t respond. I thought he might have had a concussion.

Probably Baker. I think they'll both be good though and exciting to watch. I just prefer a pure pocket passer.

I think the browns have Alex Smith in tyrod Taylor, and a guy who is hopefully more brees like in Mayfield. Which is why I think the two were an excellent choice for a 1-2 to build around. You have tyrod get the team respectable again. You hope Mayfield can become as Breesy as you possibly can, but if he turns into Romo... There are worse things in the world.

To be fair, even Tom Brady doesn't look good when he's getting pressured really well.

I'd go with Watson, but that's more cause he's not a complete doucher. It'll be interesting what this answer is this time next year.

LMAO

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John Dorsey had a special message at our Rookie Show: <a href="https://t.co/HvFJBkF8kZ">pic.twitter.com/HvFJBkF8kZ</a></p>&mdash; Cleveland Browns (@Browns) <a href="https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1031964417867620352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LMAO

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">Cc: <a href="https://twitter.com/TheAcademy?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheAcademy</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/TheEmmys?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheEmmys</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/goldenglobes?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@goldenglobes</a> <a href="https://t.co/i3hDaf222X">pic.twitter.com/i3hDaf222X</a></p>&mdash; Cleveland Browns (@Browns) <a href="https://twitter.com/Browns/status/1031966185578029058?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 21, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Either way, John C. Reilly plays him in the biopic.

I think Mayfield is a douche the way kelce and gronk are douches. I hate gronk. But kelce is my lovable douche. Douche I can handle... Smug asshole like Josh Rosen, maybe not so much. Important distinction.

Do either of you remember how bad Brees was in his first 2 season (except against the Chiefs, of course)?

Yeah, he def struggled early. He did also greatly improve in the pocket.

I'm just not sure that happens very often as Brees seems more outlier.

Pretty much how I feel.

Of course Mayfield is going to struggle just like Brees, but I don’t know how he will answer that adversity. I just feel like he’s the kind of guy that can crumble if he struggles early on.

I have to admit, I just don’t like short QB’s, so it’s hard for me not to look for reasons that Mayfield will fail between that and his douchy tendencies.

Guys like Brees and Wilson are just extremely rare outliers in that regard.

For me, I don't really think that you can coach up accuracy, and by all accounts, Mayfield's is a good as anyone that has come out in years.

The question becomes, what is his work ethic and desire.

That was what separated Brees.

As to the question that was raised earlier, Watson or Mayfield?

I'm taking Mayfield.

I just don't believe that you can have sustained success with an arm that weak.

I think he'll be just fine. Watching him in hardknocks and he comes off as a guy that won't let adversity bring him down.

Dude has charm and personability. I think they have a star on their hands.

Man, you guys are a lot more confident in Mayfield than I am.

No way I’m taking him over Watson yet.

We have yet to see him against a real NFL defense. He’s used to playing shit defenses with all the time in the world and some really nice weapons. I just don’t think he’s this sure thing whatsoever. It’s not like Pat who had a shit OL, average weapons at best, and no defense playing against those bad defenses.

I don't want to speak for those guys, but I'm guessing you're overestimating Watson's professional experience.

I'm guessing these guys are viewing Watson as a complete unknown, so if you're going off college plus measurables, they're taking Baker.

Mayfield's footwork in the pocket is very, very good for a rookie. He also has been doing a good job keeping his eyes downfield.

All the rookie QBs (except Jackson) are doing well their first two games.

There are a ton of question marks with Baker. As said earlier I’m not sold on Watson, arm strength, durability and accuracy are big concerns with him.

Also Baker has walked on to 2 different programs and responded well in each instance.

It's been an entertaining season so far of Hard Knocks. I hope the Browns can find some success, that city needs it after Lebron left

Baker needs to sit and learn. Tyrod is a true pro's pro in this league and has more to teach Baker than most people would think.

I'm taking Watson for the size and higher ceiling.

Baker got tilted by Kansas, he should of laughed off those no talent players taunts but instead they got in his head. Dude is a Ryan Leafesque meltdown ready to happen.

Anyone see Terrance Mitchell bug the shit out of Landry on Hard Knocks and take a sucker punch from him? Didn't realize Landry was such a diva

Yeah, I saw that. I was liking Landry up until that episode, too.

Terrence Mitchell was being a punk.

Carl Nassib vs Todd Haley in the Oklahoma drill needs to happen.

Except for his very first program at Texas Tech where PM2 handed Baker his arse.:D

Reality NOT TV. All manufactured.:shrug:

The only thing I've thought was 'manufactured' was Mayfield singing 'Country Roads' as part of his rookie hazing in light of the fact Denver's estate has been paying off companies to use it more frequently to drum up album sales.

It was awesome. Mitchell got in his head. Mitchell is just trying to make the squad so giving their star reciever "the business" is a great way to get noticed.

You're trying to tell me that a fight at training camp (something that happens all the time) was manufactured for tv?

Jesus Christ. Shut the **** up.

Hate to break the news to you professional wrestling is fake as well.:D

Okay so there may be some bad blood between players that is provoked by the cameras in order to create some drama. But nobody is themselves as soon as they realize the cameras are rolling. And why there is really no such thing as 'reality TV'. You don't think producers/directors behind HardKnocks aren't trying to gin up some diva drama at every turn with manufactured situations ????

Why do you think all 32 GMs/Coaches hate HardKnocks and don't want them around. HUGE DISTRACTION so Goodell and the boys pick what team will help promote the NFL product every year.

U seam smard

Have you ever played football? I mean, I never played past the high school level, but there were fights between offensive and defensive players on nearly a weekly basis every year that I played. Testosterone runs high in such a physical game.

I don't doubt that the Hard Knocks crew drums up some stuff for the camera, but I don't believe dust-ups between the offense and defense is one of them.

Oh, yeah. It happens in every training camp.

What happens if the Browns exceed the performance of the Chiefs with Dorsey at the helm? He's a great GM, not sure why the Chiefs let him go.

Because Dorsey was an absolute maven about getting any talent on the defensive side of rookie drafts and was savvy with signing above replacement-level free agents.

He put the Chiefs in salary cap hell.

That's the way I saw it too. There were no flagrant holds just a lot of hand fighting and getting himself into good positions. Landry has let his ego get to his head

LOL

Just because some stuff is staged doesn't mean everything is. Certainly not guaranteed enough to just confidently say point blank it was staged with no possibility of another outcome.

That is a very debateable point....considering the Chiefs had a shit ton of money to go drop on Sammy Watkins.

I could throw out a bunch of other points as well.

No, it's not.

Yes, yes it is.

Quickly explain to me how a team in salary cap hell has a top 5 paid WR that they just signed?

Or that they have several contracts that they can easily get out of. Or how about the fact that it seemed like John Dorsey didn't want to pay Eric Berry and Clark Hunt did.

Some of these cap things are overblown, you can say he made mistakes on guys like Houston and even Berry but that is a him and the owner clash situation. But this is not "cap hell" cap hell does not let you go sign 2 of the premier free agents this year.

They had room after voiding contracts and cutting and trading players.
Jeremy Maclin got cut so that we could sign or draft picks last year.
If the Chiefs had some salary cap $$$ last year they could have bolstered the defense instead of having to count on Sorenson, Zombo and Revis.

And this year without Dorsey they had some cap space and still didn't.

Maclin got cut because he wasn't worth his contract. Clearly. Look at his production last year. Where is he now?

The Chiefs saw something in camp. We raged. They were right.

Fact is: DJ, Alex and Tamba were ALWAYS going to come off the books. Dorsey or not.

No one, not once, has been able to tell me what Veach has done to make our cap situation better.

Dorsey rode the edge of the cap. Look around and you'll find that a lot of the best teams do. The Steelers seem to be in perpetual cap hell.

Chiefs fans need to wake up and realize that the more talent you accumulate, the more money it costs to retain them.

Sorry that this isn't the Herm Edwards years where the team has 40+ Mill in cap space and only two players worth a shit to pay.

Talented teams cost money. Get over it.

Dead money has killed the Chiefs cap more than the guys playing.

I liked Dorsey. I also have high hopes for Veach. I don't see why some need to trash on Dorsey to prop of Veach. We have no way to know yet how Veach's signings will work out, but I don't think anyone would describe them as cap-thrifty. I don't look at any of them and say "that's a contract Dorsey couldn't have worked out".

He never should have paid Tamba. Dude sat on the roster last year because he was too expensive to cut.

DJ was overpaid but I see hwy the kept him around.

Also Dorsey's contract skills may have contributed to Smith getting traded so there is some good from it.

They had to cut Smith this season or the salary cap was ****ed.

Smith was gone the minute they traded up for Mahomes.

"Cap hell" let them sign Watkins to what is essentially a 2 year contract worth 27 mil guaranteed. More like heaven for Watkins.

The Steelers would have never paid Tamba. They are actually one of the best teams that know when to let older players go.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bengals?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bengals</a> CB KeiVarae Russell has earned the third-ranked defense grade (89.6) among NFL cornerbacks with 25+ defensive snaps this preseason. He has allowed just 35 yards into his coverage on nine targets across 53 coverage snaps. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhoDey?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WhoDey</a></p>&mdash; Austin Gayle (@AustinGayle_PFF) <a href="https://twitter.com/AustinGayle_PFF/status/1031605151835017217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

How the hell does that happen? Maybe he got in a fight with Peters? LMAO

Y u do dis?

It will hurt even more if Terrance Mitchell has success with Gregg Williams and the Browns

**** this shit right here.

I did not like what I saw from Mayfield tonight.

He doesn’t look like the outlier short NFL QB when going against good defenses. Honestly, my gut says he won’t live up to the #1 pick or be better than Darnold (not just because of tonight)

I would hope it's not just because of tonight. It's just a preseason game after all.:D

Darnold is a turnover machine. I would not draft either of them in the Top 5.

Lol I’m just using tonight as an example of why the concerns I voiced earlier in this thread are legitimate.

I’m not even saying he’s going to suck, but #1 overall pick? I just don’t see it man. Never have.

Darnolds body language in the bowl game told me everything I need to know about the guy. What kind of qb in the biggest game of his life slowly walks into each snap and burns the entire play clock when you're down 2 scores. Mayfield will need development. But I think his attitude will take him a long ways. Not sure I can say the same for Darnold.

I could also do without espn writing about Darnold every other day. You'd think he was the #1" pick.

I think Darnold will be better too

Being around Jets fans I hope that doesn't happen.

Browns best start since 2004!

Lol But, even ending in a tie, the Browns still found 37 ways to f*** up the win. I was at a sports bar watching it AND the beginning of the Chiefs game, and was so disappointed the Browns couldn’t pull it off. They had so many opportunities and STILL Browns’d it. ROFL

Were I a Browns fan, I'd be proud of my boys

They fought the bully of their division to a draw... thats a damn good way to start their new era, if you ask me

Yeah. The Browns looked decent. I would be surprised to see them drafting in the top 5 again this year. I mean, they have games against the Jets, the Donk, the Faiders, and the bungles twice. They could win 3-4 of those, then get lucky and pull off an upset or two. 6 wins is possible. It isn't great. But after 1-31, that would be a huge step forward.

Dorsey is the man

The big thing was tyrod was Alex Smith on steroids.

The browns will have some drama coming up. I can't see hue benching tyrod. Hue is fighting for his job. Either Dorsey fires hue or he he keeps hue and forces a Mayfield start (which might give hue an excuse to stay around another year).

In either event I don't know how much slack tyrod is going to get. He was really bad week 1. Really bad

They need to roll with Tyrod unless he's hurt, for this year.

Dorsey has something going on with the way he speaks that is quite distracting.

If he plays like he did against Pittsburgh, that's going to be really tough. He was really bad. Even safer qb play than Alex Smith.

Problem is Tyrod sucks and isn’t a good thrower of the football like Mayfield. I’d roll with Mayfield and get him the experience. It’s not like he’s got the Colts roster

Maclin was cut to clear the way for a superstar.