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-   -   Chiefs Haley, Pioli Smelling Like Herm, Carl (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=250089)

BigRock 09-16-2011 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88 (Post 7914465)
The #'s don't lie...

2 seasons and 1 game into the third season for the Herm/Carl regime and the Haley/Pioli regime:

Herm/Carl: 13-21 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 8 points in playoff lost)
Haley/Pioli: 14-20 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 7 points in playoff lost

Herm/Carl: 10-6 to 2-14
Haley/Pioli: 2-14 to 10-6

Numbers can lie when the person trying to use them is reeruned.

Messier 09-16-2011 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7914475)

Good old KCChiefsfan88. He's always here when the chips are down. You found a buddy.

Hammock Parties 09-16-2011 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 7914499)
Pioli's done fine with this team. This team has become pretty deep while barely spending a dime.

LMAO

This team is not deep.

Can you even imagine what would happen to the offense if Jamaal Charles missed a game....god, just the thought is horrifying.

Simply Red 09-16-2011 10:18 PM

look, who do we even play on Sunday? ...It's on Sunday right?

Messier 09-16-2011 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88 (Post 7914465)
The #'s don't lie...

2 seasons and 1 game into the third season for the Herm/Carl regime and the Haley/Pioli regime:

Herm/Carl: 13-21 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 8 points in playoff lost)
Haley/Pioli: 14-20 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 7 points in playoff lost)

Both regimes had their only playoff seasons with the NFC West on the schedule.

The book on Haley is pretty clear now... his ego has destroyed any chance of the Chiefs attracting/retaining high quality assistant coaches and having any legit championship aspirations.

The book on Pioli is now being exposed and it is exposing Pioli as a FRAUD. Pioli's 2009 draft looks like an epic disaster and his 2010 draft has huge holes in it (see the second round draft picks). The most productive players on the roster are mostly players drafted by Carl (Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, etc.) Pioli also has yet to sign an impact free agent.


The whole Pioli inherited the best players on the team thing makes me wonder, why is this a knock on Pioli? Should Pioli have cut those players and replaced them with FA and draft picks to prove he can find his own guys? It's silly to me to find fault with Pioli because many of the best players on the team were here before him. You're right there were several good players already on the team. So what should Pioli have done with that fact?

Here's something Pioli is doing, he is recognizing those good players, and resigning them before they hit FA.

That's a way he's different from Peterson.

The Bad Guy 09-16-2011 10:26 PM

Now KcChiefsfan88 is trying to make a case for Herm and Carl?

He's another bi-polar piece of shit.

FloridaMan88 09-16-2011 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 7914500)
Herm/Carl: 10-6 to 2-14
Haley/Pioli: 2-14 to 10-6

Numbers can lie when the person trying to use them is reeruned.

You should follow your statement above... numbers DO lie if you don't look at their context.

Herm/Carl oversaw the Chiefs as they transitioned to a major youth movement from the oldest team in the league.

Haley/Pioli inherited a young team and have won due mostly to talent drafted/acquired by Herm/Carl that is now reaching their NFL potential (see Tamba Hali, see Dwayne Bowe, see Jamaal Charles).

The Bad Guy 09-16-2011 10:28 PM

There's a whole hell of a lot of assuming that Herm could have even gotten the most out of Jamaal, Bowe, DJ, and Hali.

Bowe was an out of shape, lax receiver before Haley and co. arrived. DJ was working on his 3rd linebacker spot in 4 years before they arrived and Hali was on his way to being a rotational lineman. If Herm was here, we seriously still might be looking at Larry Johnson on this roster.

If I'm given a 66 corvette to drive, and I fix it up and make it look good, the guy who I bought the car off of shouldn't get the credit for the way it looks just because he had it before me.

FloridaMan88 09-16-2011 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 7914532)
Now KcChiefsfan88 is trying to make a case for Herm and Carl?

He's another bi-polar piece of shit.

Herm/Carl are the equivalent of Adolf Hitler to Europe... mass destruction. That has already been confirmed.

The fact Haley/Pioli's win/loss record is virtually identical to the worst head coach/GM duo in Chiefs franchise history speaks volumes about how lackluster the so called "new era" of Chiefs football has been.

chiefzilla1501 09-16-2011 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 7914521)
LMAO

This team is not deep.

Can you even imagine what would happen to the offense if Jamaal Charles missed a game....god, just the thought is horrifying.

It's deeper than it was, given that (as Dave said earlier), they had to cut 50 guys from the roster. That's a ton of seats to fill in 3 years.

Pioli's done a good job of rounding out the roster, especially given that last year was not a good year for free agents. I'm happy so far with the moves he's made at some of the non-critical positions. The problem is he's done a bad job on the critical ones. It's damning now, but it's not like that can't be fixed if he starts making some good decisions. And who knows... if Powe and Houston or Sheffield pan out, then we're done to one critical position we have to fill. Granted, it's the most important position on the team, but still...

BigRock 09-16-2011 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88 (Post 7914533)
You should follow your statement above... numbers DO lie if you don't look at their context.

Yes. The problem is, you actually have to understand the context first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88 (Post 7914533)
Herm/Carl oversaw the Chiefs as they transitioned to a major youth movement from the oldest team in the league.

That's right, they did. In 2008. And the 2008 season, apart from the first game, wasn't factored into the numbers you posted. So that excuse holds no water.

Messier 09-16-2011 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88 (Post 7914538)
Herm/Carl are the equivalent of Adolf Hitler to Europe... mass destruction. That has already been confirmed.

The fact Haley/Pioli's win/loss record is virtually identical to the worst head coach/GM duo in Chiefs franchise history speaks volumes about how lackluster the so called "new era" of Chiefs football has been.

So if Herm/Carl, or "Hitler" caused "mass destruction", you allow for no time to clean up "Europe" even though two years into the "reconstruction" the "allied forces" managed to get "France" back on it's feet again? Even though that project was helped by an "easy schedule".

Hammock Parties 09-16-2011 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier (Post 7914547)
So if Herm/Carl, or "Hitler" caused "mass destruction", you allow for no time to clean up "Europe" even though two years into the "reconstruction" the "allied forces" managed to get "France" back on it's feet again? Even though that project was helped by an "easy schedule".

LMAO

'Hamas' Jenkins needs to comment on this whacked-out WW2 analogy.

chiefzilla1501 09-16-2011 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier (Post 7914547)
So if Herm/Carl, or "Hitler" caused "mass destruction", you allow for no time to clean up "Europe" even though two years into the "reconstruction" the "allied forces" managed to get "France" back on it's feet again? Even though that project was helped by an "easy schedule".

I'd say we're in year 4 of the rebuild.

But I think what's getting people riled up is pretty simple. The Chiefs would be in fine progress for the rebuild if they had a good QB. Ditto for Nose Tackle.

I think Pioli's done much better things the haters will give him credit for, but nobody can ignore that he's so far fallen ridiculously short on the two most critical pieces.

NJChiefsFan 09-17-2011 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock (Post 7914546)
Yes. The problem is, you actually have to understand the context first.


That's right, they did. In 2008. And the 2008 season, apart from the first game, wasn't factored into the numbers you posted. So that excuse holds no water.

Well said.


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