So Herm has sold you, this is not his fault either?

Ok, but if Ty Law had gotten 10 interceptions for the Chiefs, instead of falling on his ass every time he needed to make a play, Herm would have given Carl credit for aquiring Ty Law, right?

ROFLROFLROFL I remember that arogant weasel bragging about bringing Ty Law into KC!

YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! If he is going to take the credit, he has to take the blame.

Gunther should replace Bob Gretz. I'd be addicted to reading his propagunda.

first off, read all my posts before you decide you understand my opinion. Second I just said that it seems to me Carl stopped Herm from doing what herm wanted to do. IF that is true then once Carls tells Herm he has to get some Vets, why wouldn't Herm want to try and do his best at getting a seasoned vet. Law seemed like a good signing to many of us, as a stop gap. We needed help at that position and Carl wasn't going to let Herm go for the overhaul.

It's a possible scenerio and a believable scenerio. I don't know what exactly happened behind closed doors, but I guess I should be humbled to be having a conversation with someone who obviously must have been there.

Then what does this mean....Originally Posted by KC Fish
Sure.............




That's how you replied, when I said I knew he was a stop-gap. Sure sounds like you are implying, I'm wrong and that the masses, (you seem to be including yourself in with that train of thought), thought Law would be around for quite some time-I obviously didn't. Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

Pardon me for being a Gunther apologist. While I too am disappointed in his defenses in his second stint, I still can't forget his defenses in his first stint. This article is a good recap of those years, which we all long to see again, and who better to bring those days back then the man who did it the first time.

Who Needs Offense With Chiefs' Defense?

By THOMAS GEORGE
Published: September 10, 1996

The Chiefs have the type of defense that can carry an offense. The Chiefs have the type of defense that can propel Kansas City into Super Bowl XXXI.

This Kansas City defense returns each starter from a unit that finished second league-wide in defense a year ago. They can rock you up the middle, catch you around the end and sprint with you downfield. They knock the ball loose. They catch it. They even score with it, sometimes more than the opponent's offense.

That was the case here on Sunday. Chiefs defense 9, Oakland Raiders offense 3. That was the subplot of Kansas City's 19-3 victory over the Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City's seventh straight over Oakland.

The Chiefs blocked a field goal, forced two turnovers, made two sacks, scored a safety and returned a fumble 80 yards for a touchdown. This was hot stuff. This was like watching cheese melt on a grill. They made the Raiders' offense look gooey and sticky, especially near the Chiefs' goal line.

Every defense needs a little help from its offense. In recent seasons, the Chiefs' offense has not done its part, which is why Kansas City has consistently been bounced early in the playoffs. While the quarterback, Steve Bono, was shaky on Sunday, the offense contributed with a running game that featured 31 rushing attempts. Kansas City is now 50-2 in the 90's when it runs 30 or more times in a game. Included in that streak is a string of 31 consecutive victories. When Kansas City can run it, coupled with this defense, this team is nearly unbeatable.

There were other ways the Chiefs' offense helped the defense. Art Shell, the Raiders' Hall of Fame tackle, used to be the Raiders head coach. He is the Chiefs' offensive line coach now.

''Art came into the defensive linemen's meeting last week and he sat down with us and told us each of their offensive linemen's strengths and weaknesses,'' said Chiefs end Neil Smith. ''That helps to hear it coming from their former coach. It helps coming from a former player. Art wants us to win and he wants to beat the Raiders. There is still some bitterness there, just like in the Kansas City-Oakland rivalry.''

Score another one for Shell. He is 3-0 now versus the Raiders. Score another one for Marcus Allen. The former Raiders running back is now 7-0 versus his old team. Score another one for the Chiefs' defense. It has scored a touchdown in each of the last four Raiders games.

This Chiefs' defense does not have a weak link.

Peek at the line. From left to right, it is Smith, Joe Phillips, Dan Saleaumua and Vaughn Booker. Smith is the most talented, Saleaumua the most gritty.

Peek at the linebackers: Derrick Thomas, Tracy Simien and Anthony Davis. Thomas gained both sacks and was responsible for the Chiefs' safety when he knocked Raiders quarterback Billy Joe Hobert silly in the end zone in the fourth quarter for the game's final points. Simien gained a second-quarter interception. Booker is a rock to block -- he is 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 293 pounds.

Peek at the secondary. It is James Hasty and Dale Carter at the corners and Mark Collins and Brian Washington at the safety position. Hasty is one of the stronger cornerbacks around (207 pounds), but he moves like a running back. Carter is a supreme talent. Collins covers as much ground as any free safety in the league and Washington (210 pounds) packs a punch at strong safety.

It was the Thomas-Hasty combination that ultimately foiled the Raiders. Opening the second half, after the Raiders had driven from their 24 to the Chiefs' 5, Thomas steamed around the Raiders left end and crushed Hobert. Hasty grabbed the loose ball and sped 80 yards for a touchdown, turning a potential tying Raiders score into a 14-0 Chiefs lead.

Take a strong defense and toss in a spectacular player and you have the makings of something special. That is the Chiefs' defense, positioned by the creative coordinator Gunther Cunningham. That is Thomas. In two games he has four sacks. He has career marks of 19 multiple sack games now, 89 sacks and 35 forced fumbles.

jesus christ this fan base can just not let go of failure

40 years of programming is harder to break than I expected, I've never seen so many fans CLING to half-ass coaching in my life.

This started with HemiEd stating Herm brought in Ty Law, meaning that in hindsight it was a bad decision. I stated that the Law signing wasn't a bad signing at the time and many posters were happy with that. Some were downright ecstatic with the idea. There were posts claiming Law/Surtain would be the best CB pair in the NFL.

You replied, "but by the time Herm got Law to come play here, many knew Law was stop-gap at best." Which isn't true. Very few if any thought Law was going to decline so quickly. This place was hysteria with Law threads and how it was going to dramatically improve our defense. That's what my "Sure" response was directed at.

Then you come back with "Yea, everybody KNEW a 38 year old cornerback was the future for another decade, right?" Well nobody said anything about being the future for a decade. The argument was whether the Law signing was a bad move and attributable to Herm, and you turned it into "Well if you thought he'd be here for a decade you were stupid."

If that wasn't your intention then I apologize, but the way it looked, you were changing the parameters of the argument along the way.

Fair enough- I was wondering where all that came from-now I know you weren't basing everything directed at me, but rather the past comments of many individuals. Thanks for clearing that up.

give Gun some pie
and send his ass packing

the new GM will have alot of say....I"m just saying.

Just bring in Greg Robinson and be done with it.

JJ want a quick tip, you could have called defensive plays for that defense in 96 anyone could have, that personnel anyone could coordinate it. Give any fool 2 pass rushers and 2 lock down corners and you can basically do whatever the hell you want.

Marty had 2 pass rushers and 2 lock down corners during his entire time in KC. The D was its best with Gunther at the helm. Do you remember Dave Adolph? The D took a step back under him. I was thrilled to see him leave. Then Gun came in and replaced him and took the D to another level.

If you go look at the rankings Guns D's were inconsistent from year to year, even with all that talent.