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-   -   Chiefs The fate of Chris Jones 2023 edition (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=349477)

BossChief 08-09-2023 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17049056)
There is a definite "Chris Jones is as important to the team as Patrick Mahomes is" crowd.

It's laughably stupid, but it is out there being said. So that camp believes that we wouldn't have won the Superbowl without Chris last year as the defense surrendered 35 points and registered one sack by the guy who plays for the Saints now, and go on to say that we cannot win the superbowl this year or any other year without Jones, despite having an undefeated record in games he has missed, including the 24-0 playoff comeback against Houston the CJ95 enjoyed in his street clothes.

Chris, like Tyreek before him, is a luxury we simply cant pay the asking price on. The sky was falling when Hill left and in a rebuild year we won it all.

You'll see a similar result if and when Jones is moved as well.
Just about everything you wrote is wrong.

tredadda 08-09-2023 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 17049039)
Jones will sign a deal in the range between Donald and the second highest paid DT. That’s what he’s said all along. These things take time and this is all posturing. He’s not going to sit out regular season games and I couldn’t care less about him being at camp or playing in the PS.

That result benefits both sides.
When he says between Donald and the #2 DT, is it right down the middle? Or is it closer to Donald than DT #2? If he's making $500K-$1 Million less than Donald, then while technically less, it's still pretty darn close.

O.city 08-09-2023 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 17049018)
but that's exactly what O City is saying, and why I called him out. That's the ONLY thing I'm debating.
The Chiefs need him to win a SB this year.

Could they win it without him? Sure.

Is it alot harder? Yes.

THat's what I'm arguing. Taking Chris JOnes off this defense makes it alot harder for everyone else in the front 7.

O.city 08-09-2023 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17049056)
There is a definite "Chris Jones is as important to the team as Patrick Mahomes is" crowd.

It's laughably stupid, but it is out there being said. So that camp believes that we wouldn't have won the Superbowl without Chris last year as the defense surrendered 35 points and registered one sack by the guy who plays for the Saints now, and go on to say that we cannot win the superbowl this year or any other year without Jones, despite having an undefeated record in games he has missed, including the 24-0 playoff comeback against Houston the CJ95 enjoyed in his street clothes.

Chris, like Tyreek before him, is a luxury we simply cant pay the asking price on. The sky was falling when Hill left and in a rebuild year we won it all.

You'll see a similar result if and when Jones is moved as well.
There's no argument for equal value to a HOF QB.

THere's an argument that without CJ last year, we aren't playing in the actual SB.

O.city 08-09-2023 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17048931)
What leverage does he have?

If he sits in actual games he losses a ton of money and will leave huge question marks as to what he'll be on a new contract. He'll also be 30 at that point, if a 30 year old DT sat out of games and halfassed it when he returned he wouldn't get paid..by anyone at least not at the level he wants.

It's a non issue right now because he has to report before the season and play his ass off...also this idea that if this is his last year here the Chiefs run at SB's is over is really laughable. I'm sure the Chiefs are a bigger SB contender if they lose several young ascending players because 33 year old Chris Jones is making 30 mill a year.
Well, I'd guess the Chiefs at this point in time, know that they can't trade Chris Jones and have a defense as good as they would like it to be. THey also know that his number next year contractually can't be 33.5 million dollars on the cap. They also aren't in the business of letting him walk with no value coming back I'd imagine.

So yeah, he has some leverage here.

O.city 08-09-2023 10:58 AM
They should have traded him before this seasons draft if that was the plan.

tredadda 08-09-2023 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17049056)
There is a definite "Chris Jones is as important to the team as Patrick Mahomes is" crowd.

It's laughably stupid, but it is out there being said. So that camp believes that we wouldn't have won the Superbowl without Chris last year as the defense surrendered 35 points and registered one sack by the guy who plays for the Saints now, and go on to say that we cannot win the superbowl this year or any other year without Jones, despite having an undefeated record in games he has missed, including the 24-0 playoff comeback against Houston the CJ95 enjoyed in his street clothes.

Chris, like Tyreek before him, is a luxury we simply cant pay the asking price on. The sky was falling when Hill left and in a rebuild year we won it all.

You'll see a similar result if and when Jones is moved as well.
Oh my. Didn't Jones have the game sealing sack on Burrow in the AFCCG? If he does not, is it certain that KC wins that game? If not then there is a chance we do not win the SB without him as we don't even make it.

Also comparing Jones to Tyreek is silly. Not same positions nor impact. Mahomes offsets a lot on offense, who on defense offsets the impact of Jones? As great as Mahomes is, he can only do so much.

O.city 08-09-2023 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17049088)
Oh my. Didn't Jones have the game sealing sack on Burrow in the AFCCG? If he does not, is it certain that KC wins that game? If not then there is a chance we do not win the SB without him as we don't even make it.

Also comparing Jones to Tyreek is silly. Not same positions nor impact. Mahomes offsets a lot on offense, who on defense offsets the impact of Jones? As great as Mahomes is, he can only do so much.
They can offset the impact of a Jones trade next offseason.

My argument is you can't do that right now.

TwistedChief 08-09-2023 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17049066)
When he says between Donald and the #2 DT, is it right down the middle? Or is it closer to Donald than DT #2? If he's making $500K-$1 Million less than Donald, then while technically less, it's still pretty darn close.
All indications thus far are he wants $30mm, which is basically just under Donald money.

He's under no obligation to blink and sign a deal right now.

tredadda 08-09-2023 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17049090)
They can offset the impact of a Jones trade next offseason.

My argument is you can't do that right now.
I hope so. He is an elite DT that has to be accounted for. If he's gone, who steps up in that role?

Red Dawg 08-09-2023 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17049088)
Oh my. Didn't Jones have the game sealing sack on Burrow in the AFCCG? If he does not, is it certain that KC wins that game? If not then there is a chance we do not win the SB without him as we don't even make it.

Also comparing Jones to Tyreek is silly. Not same positions nor impact. Mahomes offsets a lot on offense, who on defense offsets the impact of Jones? As great as Mahomes is, he can only do so much.
So? He got big money to his job and he did it. That's the past.

-King- 08-09-2023 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17049056)
There is a definite "Chris Jones is as important to the team as Patrick Mahomes is" crowd.

It's laughably stupid, but it is out there being said. So that camp believes that we wouldn't have won the Superbowl without Chris last year as the defense surrendered 35 points and registered one sack by the guy who plays for the Saints now, and go on to say that we cannot win the superbowl this year or any other year without Jones, despite having an undefeated record in games he has missed, including the 24-0 playoff comeback against Houston the CJ95 enjoyed in his street clothes.

Chris, like Tyreek before him, is a luxury we simply cant pay the asking price on. The sky was falling when Hill left and in a rebuild year we won it all.

You'll see a similar result if and when Jones is moved as well.
Can you quote one post where someone said Chris Jones is anywhere near as important as Mahomes?

TEX 08-09-2023 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 17049104)
Can you quote one post where someone said Chris Jones is anywhere near as important as Mahomes?
Exactly. Literally nobody has said that.

mabbott 08-09-2023 11:09 AM
Can we be honest, Year 8 is when the clock is really ticking for Defensive Linemen. Some sharply decline and by year 10 most are done or in decline. There are not many outliers that have been successful consistently after year ten. If Chris Jones isn't going to sign with us unless he is breaking the bank, then trade him to someone that will next year.

I read an interesting article about when players decline here is a quote from it:

After a defensive lineman's seventh year in the NFL, his time is very, very short. Look at the huge drop-off in qualifying starters from year seven to year eight, and from year nine to year 10. The decline flattens for a while, as the best defensive linemen can stick around a very long time, but the quick development, long plateau and quick decline is obvious.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...to-nfl-players

saphojunkie 08-09-2023 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 17049104)
Can you quote one post where someone said Chris Jones is anywhere near as important as Mahomes?
we can't win a superbowl without chris jones


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