Sweet.

So we get to fill in another spot in our communal mock?

Ojabo
Jones
Williams
Tolbert
Dulcich


How you feel about Nick Cross here with this other 3rd? Or one of these hybrid linebackers that run like a deer? And of course there's always Calvin Austin (maybe...probably not)

As long as they're not trading up, I'm pretty good with whatever they do.

I’d be okay with:

Cross, S
McCollum, CB
Andersen, LB

I struggle with the need. I actually think that is an area we are set. To me, we have far bigger needs in other areas. If you have little belief in Gray and Forston, than I see it.

Nate Taylor wrote an article earlier this week outlining Reid and Veach moving away from SMALL fast play makers to making a concerted effort to get BIG and TALL while still fast playmakers. Change in offensive philosophy. Another elite tight end would make sense. Pickens seems to fit that mold as well. Christian Watson surely does. Obviously been discussed ad nauseam but DK Metcalf sure as hell would fit that mold of they are going all in for an elite receiver. Id think guys like Olave, Dotson etc may be off the board. They are emphasizing elite size moving forward.

Andersen was who I had in mind there as well. Such a unique combination of strength/speed. And at worst you figure he's a special team's monster.

And we're off to the races!

Ojabo
Jones
Williams
Tolbert
Dulcich
Andersen

Now we just need CD to build my mock probability simulator so we can run the numbers, see how likely this whole thing is and then start our coup. I'll let you have Veach's office if I can have his parking spot.

I would so much rather see what Fortson can do in that role than spend a 3rd on a TE.

I don’t know how anyone could look at that mock and not see the holes that it’s filled and the talent that’s been added to the roster.

BUT MY FIRST ROUND WR!!1!!1!1!1!1

The big issues I have is roster space.

We're not carrying 5 TEs and the Chiefs really seem to like Bell.

So with Kelce, Gray, Fortson and Bell, is there room for someone like Dulcich?

My argument would be yes, but that it would come at Bell's expense. Fortson is a pure 'move' TE and Gray is something of poor man's Kelce in that I don't know that he's all that useful for sub-packages (he has no standout skill) but has no real obvious weaknesses either. So he's more of a conventional backup.

Bell is really just a blocking TE so like Fortson, he's more of a sub-package guy.

So ultimately one of two things would happen - Dulcich would prove to be a good enough blocker to cost Bell his slot OR just a well-rounded enough player to cost Gray is.

I mean they don't have a ton of capital in Gray. And apart from being a camp legend, he wasn't exactly a massive contributor. I could see them moving on from him if someone came in who shows the tools to be a genuine starting caliber player someday.

I'm just not seeing that with Gray.

Fortson is coming off an ACL tear. Does he have potential? Yes. Will he ever get there? We don’t know.

Gray was a 5th round pick. If you believe in his potential…then you should also believe that DE isn’t a HUGE need because we have Kaindoh. He has potential…he’s just raw.

The fact is…Kelce is getting older and if we can lessen his snaps so that he’s not getting the shit beat out of him…then we need to do it. Drafting a TE in the 3rd isn’t a waste if you believe that he has a skill set you can utilize.

Exactly. Fortson is expendable.

You need Bell so that he can run the QB sneaks!

If anyone is expendable in my mind…it’s Bell.

Kelce showed some small signs of slowing down last year. I think you’ll see some more this year. He’s probably got 2 years left here.

Idk though. Surely they won’t pay a 34 year old TE $16.4 million?

Reality is they're all expendable outside of Kelce.

Pretty much. Gray wasn’t some 2nd or 3rd round pick like he was talked about. He’s more than likely just a backup who won’t kill you if he has to take some snaps.

And Fortson is a great story and I’m rooting for him but he’s an UDFA that made a position change.

You want to draft Williams and Ojabo who tore their ACLs like yesterday but you're worried about Fortson who did the same in October!?

I'm joking.

I don't entirely dispute the logic of it but I'm not convinced that's the way they're going to be leaning this year given the TE room they have. If I'm the Chiefs, I'd want to see how Fortson and Grey develop this year and then make TE more of a priority the following offseason if they don't like what they've seen.

it was a joke.

I think your must haves are Kelce and Gray.

Fortson was an Achilles tear wasnt it? A tad more serious than an acl and we saw how an acl has affected Thornhill for two years now. A UDFA guy who was on the practice squad two years in a row coming off a torn Achilles doesnt feel like a lock for the roster, let a lone day 1. People dont like to hear it around here but its reality.

Was it an Achilles? Now I have to go check.

Dulcich looks super smooth with a high ceiling.

If the Chiefs are enamored, the presence of Gray, Bell, and Fortson won’t dissuade them.

I'm 95% sure it was because i mentally thought well thats probably a full year.

Would LOVE him at 62, but wouldn't bitch too much at 50. Guy looks like the real deal, but even my highlight reel looked pretty good.

I know you said you're joking....but I figured I'd respond anyways.

Taking Ojabo in the 1st round, with his achilles tear, comes with taking another DE in the 2nd or 3rd round. That's because I'm looking at Ojabo's rookie year being a redshirt year.

And Williams, with an ACL tear, I'd be taking at 29. If he's healthy like he says he is....he won't be at 29.

You're right. It was an achilles. I just looked.

He had surgery back in October. So you figure a 9 month recovery time and that would put him at around June/July.

The Packers are the team to watch in terms of drafting a TE early.

Why? AR has never shown love for TE's and they have shit at WR.

The Devante Adams trade still shocks me. I figured when Rodgers was extended that the Adams contract was already done.

It's been their missing ingredient IMO. Rogers doesn't show them love because he's never had much talent there. They have two first round picks too. If there is a dynamic TE sitting there I think it makes more sense for the Packers than the Chiefs.

They have Tonyan….

Coming off an injury.

Fortson is irrelevant to start the season. He has PUP / IR list written all over him...even if he's technically ready to go.

Christian Watson is starting to remind me a bit of the DK Metcalf draft scenario. Still not sure why DK fell as far as he did. I mean lets just trust our eyes here. Watson is tall, strong, explosive, fluid. FREAK athlete. Lets just trust our eyes here he is the best all around pure athlete at wide receiver in the draft. Would not surprise me whatsoever if he is an absolute superstar. Two 6'4" -6'5" burners on the edge in MVS and Watson is intriguing.

DK fell because of injuries in college and his garbage agility stats. He was basically a track star that was seen as a huge deep threat.

Agreed.

A lot of people say, "Oh this guy or that guy is just an ATHLETE, not a football player" .

If there was any position you want pure athletes, it's freakin' WR.

Give me physical freaks at that position. The Coaches will figure out how teach them to get from point A to point B.

Tyreek Hill example A. Just a total freak who pretty much learned how to play WR on the fly. People are okay with a "redshirt" year for Ojabo Im cool with easing Watson into the NFL playing behind Juju, MVS and Hardman during his rookie year if not ready.

One of the things that made the Patriots dynasty happen was their ability to change when needed. They went from 4-3 to 3-4, then 4-3 under looks.

They also went from big time outside targets with Moss to a heavy double TE duo to a run the ball and matriculate it down the field.

I hope that’s what we are doing with our additions.

I’d love to mix a few power runs with RoJo and draft a 2nd TE like McBride to pair with Kelce. A good TE is probably the biggest mismatch for an offense bc you can’t put a LB on them bc they’re too slow and you can’t put a DB on them bc they aren’t big enough.

I’m all for drafting a TE early. You can get another bigger speed receiver in the 3rd rd or our late 2nd

God Damnit no Kyzir still ****ing sucks.

I'd just like to remind everyone that Noah Gray had seven catches all year.



Seven.

That's why we should draft Austin Allen

Nah - In fact, he's the perfected demonstration of the opposite point. Tyreek is an example of a guy who's born to play the position or who isn't.

I said it back in his rookie year - I was FLOORED by how polished Hill was as a WR. The little false footfires and the things he did to get his body into position to make a cut at full speed - that stuff looked easier than falling out of bed for him.

His head/shoulders moved naturally when he'd sell a route. He'd adjust to the ball like it was nothing. His body control was unreal. And it all happened for him immediately.

Tyreek Hill didn't learn to play WR - he was born to play it. He was playing it like he'd done it for a decade almost overnight.

Meanwhile someone like Hardman may just NEVER figure all those little things out. And even if he improves in those areas, it'll be mechanical. It will never come as naturally to him as it came to Hill.

Staylor and I had this discussion with somebody as it related to Julio Jones and Devante Adams not terribly long ago. Someone was underselling them as #2 wideouts who were largely system products for some bizarre reason. And I just could not impart onto them the WR things those guys do so well that allow them to get open.

It really is more of an art than some realize or acknowledge. And Hill was just a born prodigy in that regard.

I mean Tyreek's rookie year he had 593 receiving yards. Hardman had 538. Id bet a large amount of money the majority of his rookie yardage was in the screen game (catch and run) or just straight go routes. He was not a super star overnight there was a learning curve there.

I posted this in the Shenault thread, meant to put it here...

What if?

Lets say they pull off a trade for DK. They immediately sign him to a new contract for roughly 20 million a year with a low cap hit this year.

We are paying him top WR money for his past production but not THE top, he gets his money sooner and gets Patrick. This helps him out as well as the Chiefs.

Then if he blows up which is likely, hes already under contract for 4 years?

Win Win!

Trading for DK means no pass rush but I wouldn't care. We would dominate on offense.

Theres no motivation to sign sooner. With more deals coming in huge and amazon money. No smart agent is going to let him do that especially after being traded for.

Why would DK sign an extension the year before he enters a Andy Reid/Patrick Mahomes led offense when he knows his numbers are going to explode? I too would love it just not gonna happen.

The injury risk is always going to be a motivating factor as to why you get your deal done sooner.

Fair question, possible answers...

He isnt going to get a new contract this year from the Seahawks, he could be tagged next year so still no new contract.

He has no QB in Seattle, hard to build your brand over the next two years with no QB.

He gets his money NOW instead of a maybe in the next year or two. He goes to a much better team with the BEST QB in the league.

He then gets another contract at 29 after winning a few Superbowls!

What would DK's cap charge be on the tag next season?

Average of the top 5 WR contracts.

This year it was roughly $18.5 million. That's obviously going to go up next off season because of Adams and Hill.

I'd sign him for $18.5 annually in a heartbeat. That's like $12m less than Hill was asking.

At this point, about $22M it looks like. That's not exact though, the numbers are still a bit fluid.

He's not going to get $18.5 annually. He's almost guaranteed to get top 5 WR money on his next contract.

OTC has it projected to be about $21M next year and that's assuming nobody else signs a big contract between now and then.

Hes stuck in Seattle with no QB. Is his value likely to go up in his current situation? Probably not.

He is currently under contract for 3.9 million this year, maybe the tag next year and lets say it goes to 21 million. He makes 25 million over the next two years while possibly bringing his value down and no future protection against injury.

OR he is traded to the Chiefs and signs a new contract for 4 years 80 million. 20 million a year average with 50 million guaranteed.

He just went from 25 million to 50 million over the next two years and has protection against injury. Has the best possible situation to build his value over the next 4 years with the ability to sign a new deal before turning 30.

Thats a WIN!

He's not going to sing a 4-year deal worth $80M. Stop already, it's not going to happen.

No...that's how you end up with a WR who holds out after his first two years in KC.

Veach hits this draft out of the park we are in great shape moving forward. Draft 4 or 5 high level starters to pair with Humphrey, Bolton and Smith from last year all on rookie contracts. Get out from under Frank Clarks contract next year. If that all happens I think Veach is in prime position to take some major swings in free agency/trade next offseason.

4 or 5 HIGH LEVEL STARTERS, huh? That's all. Well then, we good. haha.

Then you could trade him and get the Tyreek haul again?

As empty as we are on defense there's plenty of positions where the draft pick might be the starter by default. High level or not.

It's the "high level" part that's tricky.

A good DE, DT, and S are a lot harder to find in later rounds than a RG or C...

I guess my point is, if we are starting 4 or 5 rookies next year... we are in deep shit. I mean if over the next 3 seasons - 4 or 5 guys out of this draft start for us - it is a very successful draft - but next season?

Placing hope that we are somehow dependent on this draft to compete.... is, I think, asking too much.

I think many of the holes will be filled by later FA, trades and hopefully a draft pick or two, if we are lucky.

I hope you guys are in for a "trial by fire" approach on defense then because 5 rookies stepping in and starting day 1 will come with it's own issues. Number one being communication and assignments.

The problem is that if you're wanting "high level" starters, the upside of the draft is not only your best bet, it's really your only bet at this point.

There aren't any "high level" free agents left. They're all middling or aging guys.

Our best bet, at least at DE, is to take a couple of guys in the first 3 rounds and then sign a vet or two. That and hope Kaindoh and Danna take steps forward.

April Fools but legit gave me a mini heart attack.

Lol how are you even getting to 5 rookies starting on defense?

Clark
Jones
Nnadi
???

Gay
Bolton
Carter

Sneed
Fenton
???
Reid
Thornhill

The only spots you can't realistically pencil someone in at right now is DE and 3rd CB, and that may well end up being Danna and Baker.

And hope that they all contribute in the rotation.

That was my point I guess:

ANYBODY we get at this point, be it through FA or the draft, is going to be a rotational player most likely.

If we get 2 "high level" starters out of this draft, we'll be doing well. Last year's draft was great but it was also an anomaly.

They're going to get Bradberry IMO. And they'll likely fill that other DE spot with TWO draftees rather than just one.

If we trade for Bradberry....then our best shot at rookies starting are DE and our 3rd safety (if we draft one high).

Most people forget that Spags doesn't really give rookies a ton of snaps right off the bat.

3rd safety is Deon Bush I'm assuming.

Could be. He could also just be Watts replacement at this point.

Veach hit on 3 in 2021 in Bolton, Humphrey and Smith. He also used draft capital to trade for Orlando Brown Jr. That is 4 high level players right there. We have more draft picks than any other team in the league. Why do you think its a stretch to grab 4 high level starters again?

Yeah but that could change if they like a guy like Dax Hill, who can play CB and S.

Because last year was an extraordinarily good year and it's not likely he'll do that every year. Law of averages.

Could sign Clowney/Flowers or bring back Ingram as well.

Other than Clowney, we're still talking about rotational guys, not front line starters.

Way more draft picks this year. He could literally whiff on everything other than the four top 62 picks and still walk away with a great draft.

For sure, but it's probably best to have more realistic expectations. Drafts like last year don't happen every year, even for the best GM's.

A rookie could potentially start at all of the following positions: WR, RT, DT, DE, SAM, CB, S. Not a stretch whatsoever to think 4 rookies could be starting next year.

Possible but not probable.

We're more likely to see platoons at WR, DT, and DE.