Not creating a narrative. Just having a conversation and trying to get a better understanding. Even football experts like me get confused on some things.

My point is to the people thinking they should/will go OT first round and the rumors coming out that that's what they're going to target.

I'm fine with what they have now. I'd like to see Moore get a full year before we draft his replacement. And I don't think we need to redshirt a RT for if Moore's good and we need a replacement for Taylor.

When you go “draft and develop” like we have an are successful in terms of winning games…it gets tough.

They’re in the “look for value and draft well” phase where shit just doesn’t work out sometimes

I’m a little more worried about the fact that the qb seemed to have a mental breakdown the past 2 seasons at times and forget how to handle a pocket but that’s another story

Yet:

Sure, Jan.

Exactly. When you go out in the first wave of free agency and get a top FA, you are going to overpay.

Mahomes is elevating the shitty playcalling and the laughable lack of protection.

His weapons available last year were a washed looking Kelce during the year and a 160 LB fast rookie WR with no running game.


Winning 15 games with that shows how special Mahomes is.

Yes. That's my opinion. Your opinion is that it is organized.

The beauty of a message board is that two people with contrasting opinions can share those opinions and participate in discussions regarding them. Wild right?

If you asked Veach privately he would probably admit they played hardball too much with Orlando based on how things went after.

Sure

I am sure you don't understand and appreciate how amazing our QB is.

Oh so you just don't understand what the word narrative means? Because that is 100% you creating a narrative, and whether it is your opinion or not is irrelevant to that fact.

And the best part is you couldn't even really defend any of it.

Yeah man I just don’t get why a QB would struggle and have issues in the pocket. If only there was a clue

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So the Chiefs *tried* to give their rookie LT help vs Nik Bonitto but....whew. Dude is fast. <a href="https://t.co/s2iKuHp9bc">pic.twitter.com/s2iKuHp9bc</a></p>&mdash; Mina Kimes (@minakimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1855748197647258079?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bengals Free Agency : <br><br>March 19, 2021, Trey Hendrickson signed a four-year, $60 million contract with the Bengals. One of the best FA pickups in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CincinnatiFootballHistory?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CincinnatiFootballHistory</a> <a href="https://t.co/EuRq2kyOZh">pic.twitter.com/EuRq2kyOZh</a></p>&mdash; Bengal Jim &amp; Friends (@bengaljims_BTR) <a href="https://twitter.com/bengaljims_BTR/status/1901448287896412291?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 17, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Eagles sack Mahomes on back to back plays!<br><br>📺: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SBLIX?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SBLIX</a> on FOX<br>📱: Tubi + NFL app <a href="https://t.co/Uun9bviMwL">pic.twitter.com/Uun9bviMwL</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1888750748797677726?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 10, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wanya Morris seemed to frequently lose the same way. Attempting a punch with his outside hand, getting his hand swiped away, and then giving up the edge. The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/raiders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#raiders</a> have been a tough opponent for him so far. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/chiefskingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#chiefskingdom</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/lvvskc?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#lvvskc</a> <a href="https://t.co/kMJqacer5A">pic.twitter.com/kMJqacer5A</a></p>&mdash; Steeler Thoughts, Chief Feelings (@stcf715) <a href="https://twitter.com/stcf715/status/1862683900750790904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wanya Morris against Josh Uche. Pass protection is where Wanya needs the most work and Uche timed this speed to power bench press perfectly. Caught Wanya on one foot and down he goes. Uche is legit <a href="https://t.co/jl4X8CX2Uc">pic.twitter.com/jl4X8CX2Uc</a></p>&mdash; Daniel Harms (@InHarmsWay19) <a href="https://twitter.com/InHarmsWay19/status/1736838243767701857?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes is sacked by Josh Sweat! <br><br>📺: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SBLIX?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SBLIX</a> on FOX<br>📱: Tubi + NFL app <a href="https://t.co/pXdDlHTtxu">pic.twitter.com/pXdDlHTtxu</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1888750436141703652?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 10, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I think people saying that are being lazy in their analysis.

Seems obvious since we clearly had problems in the super bowl, but it's not that easy.

Ok, yep. Got it.

The 13 yard drops and dropping his eyes…all the tackles fault.

I think the best way to help the OL would be to load up more on weapons outside in fact

Apparently for Mahomes to have an mvp level season he needs tackles of the Wiley and Orlando brown jr caliber

Give Mahomes above average coaching and personnel and he will have the offense top 3 every year in his prime.


Simple.

Oh ok. That's fantastic.


So you believe drafting a first round LT would be a good move?

Something you'll learn as you become an adult is that some decisions don't work out the way you intend.

Doesn't mean you should second guess them forever.

Elite pass rushes have always made great QB’s look bad. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning had the best statistical offenses ever averaging over 35 PPG and both times they got the shit beat out of them in a SB scoring only 14 and 9 points.

It’s pretty simple. Mahomes has won 3 SB’s with decent level tackles. He’s gotten his ass kicked with the the worst LT’s in the league in both SB losses.

This isn’t hard. He only needs decent tackles. He doesn’t need Willie Roaf

Based on what we know now it was a bad decision.




I doubt you have had more business success than I have so I don't need your advice gramps.

If there was an ACTUAL first round LT available to us, yes.

I'm sure Veach would tell you the same thing if you asked him.

But there will not be. I'm not convinced there's one in this entire draft. The best technician has 32" arms. I'm not sure an Ersery or a Grant might not become better offensive tackles but the smart money is that none of them do.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't take one and try anyway. But probably not at #31. Unless they really like Conerly. I could see that. But I'd raise an eyebrow.

The tackles in this past years Super Bowl were decent thru the playoffs

Guess they just had a bad game

It's entirely dependent on who and who else is available.

Did you watch the Chiefs last year?


I know Dix Lix knows more about our tackle situation than you do.


Thuney had a few nice games at the end but most of the year our LT was a complete liability.

No other star QB in the AFC had a worse LT situation.

Yea, for OBJ, dumbass.

Exactly how is him later accepting less than what the Chiefs offered because he had a fake agent the Chiefs fault, reerun? The Chiefs should've just handed his amateur agent a blank check?

Yea we all watched the Chiefs this year. They lost 2 games all year, and they had their worst performance in the SB. We can't win the SB every year. Boo ****ing hoo.

The entitlement of somebody that isn't even a Chiefs fan, just a Mahomes fan boy, is unreal.

It was bad for OBJ and bad for us.


Since he left we have thrown multiple drafts picks, signed FA's, and moved our star guard to LT in a SB where he melted down into slop.


It's been awful and a downgrade for us over a few million dollars.

Yea, the result was. You were trying to palace blame though. That's clearly on OBJ. Now you've moved the goalposts.

Does Brett Veach look like a bitch? Then why do you want him to act like a bitch?

He drew a line in the sand, Brown got in a huff and walked out, and ended up taking less elsewhere because HE is a bitch.

Shit happens.

doesn't mean Veach was wrong, it means Brown and his agent were stupid. The world is full of stupid and arrogant people.

(read that in Samuel L's voice, lol)

That's fine to make a stand on value but he drew the line too low.

We had just traded a slew of draft picks to get the guy and OBJ performed where Mahomes won MVP and scored 38 points in the SB to win SB and SB MVP.

Our offense has been shit since.

Of course I will grant that Matt Nagy arriving has played a role as well but the LT has never been as good since. And our offense went from #1 in the NFL in Points Per Play in 2022 to 14th last year.

Apparently more than he got on the OPEN ****ING MARKET is "too low".

Good grief.

I don't get why we can't have a real discussion about Brett Veach.


He doesn't care what Mahomes Magic says on a Chiefs message board.


He's one of the top NFL GM's and will be in the HOF one day.


I hope he stays here another 15 years and gets a great successor to Andy and wins 3-4 more SB's with Mahomes.

But let's be honest that things have not worked out post Orlando at all at Left Tackle.

Nobody's arguing any of those points.

You're assessing blame to Veach for OBJ leaving, when Veach offered more than he took from Cincinnati. Brown could have simply picked up the phone. But he was butt hurt, so he went to Cinci to...prove a point, I guess? How's that worked out for him?

Not all of Veach's moves work out, and the longer he's drafting at 30 plus, the harder it gets. But he's done a hell of a job, all things considered.

LT? Well, he made about as good a move as he could in free agency. I'm sure he's not done.

If they don’t feel a tackle is in this draft, they absolutely have to draft a receiving threat in the first 2 rds, be it a WR or TE.

I love Andy and Veach, but I have no ****ing clue what the **** these guys were thinking the last 2 years.

Skyy Moore and Kadarius Toney as WR1/WR2
Kingsley starting day 1
Ignoring RB and only adding an old Perine at RB after losing McKinnon

I love Kelce, but the most shocking play last year was the Kelce long play in the Houston playoff game bc he legit was running a 5 second 40 LMAO again we all love him but he’s done. His legs are not there anymore. Neither were Juju’s, Hopkins or Kareem’s. They were slow as absolute hell. And my God Justin Watson doesn’t even deserve a mention.

We could legitimately walk into our opener with Worthy, Hollywood, washed Juju and washed Kelce as our starters. We cannot do this anymore.

Luther Burden might be the best pick for us. Dude would be a stud here. Whoever it is it has to be a guy who can help us now. Of course me they’ll get a stud RB. I’m confident in that.

Help Mahomes. This offense desperately needs juice at the skill positions

There is only about 1 poster on CP who is Anti-Veach.

He doesn't need to be protected here, most of us are fans.

Well, maybe, maybe not.

Rice, Worthy, and Brown are a pretty legit 3. Even if Rice gets suspended for a few games, two legit gamebreaking WR's and Kelce is still plenty to win with. This ain't Skyy Moore. Now, it still makes good sense to always take one, and keep 'em in the pipeline. WR's are expensive.

I don't know that I would worry too much about TE. You're not going to get another Kelce. Why try? You have a decent TE in Gray. You have a young talent in Wiley. TE4 isn't going to get many snaps.

But WANTING a type of player is one thing. Is that guy available? That's the whole thing with this draft.

I WANT A PLUS LEFT TACKLE BADLY.

But I'm realistic.

It is what it is. Reality is that we really need to stack like four good football players in this draft, and it almost doesn't matter where they play.

But I'd like one of the DT's, and maybe a DE, and a RB for sure. But that's just me. And another LT prospect in that mix would make sense.

Ahhh got it. That's safe.

Lol if you think Mike Caliendo is going to get a legit chance to compete for starting guard.

It’s kind of hilarious to me that in a thread about a guy the Chiefs signed basically the second they could and get away from it, there is someone trying to say they’re disorganized.

Ludicrous, really.

A disorganized team doesn’t have that lined up. Would it have been Alaric Jackson if he hadn’t signed with the Rams? Yeah, I think it would have. But they clearly had a plan there.

Same thing with the year they pivoted off of losing two all-pro level Ts to career-ending injuries in a span of months.

They tried to make Trent Williams the highest paid T in football. When that didn’t work they pivoted quickly to signing the best LG in football in FA and trading a 1st for a solid level LT.

And that rebuild/tear down (which was pretty goddamn bleak, because the IOL had been pretty trash between the T they lost) led to four AFC title game appearances, three AFC trophies, and two Lombardies.

Pretty ****ing successful.

When that solid LT they traded for hit FA, they tried to give him a huge deal, he played hardball, they moved on and added the next best T on the FA market. Who has been very good for them across two seasons, played ball on moving money around to help the team, and played really well in the playoffs both years. Had Cris Collinsworth not had a hissy fit about him on national TV, leading to him being unfairly targeted for penalties ever since, the viewpoint is, in all likelihood, very different.

And now they’re resetting again.

They led it off by immediately signing Moore. They traded Joe Thuney. And they’re keeping some stability by retaining Trey Smith.

I mean, you can criticize the approach, I guess. But you can’t accuse them of not having a plan or not trying or being disorganized.

That’s foolish.

To be fair, the Eagles made the Packers and Cumdumpsters look really bad on offense. It wasn't just us. Their defense was gelled and AWESOME by the end of the season.

Ain't many OLs in football that were going to give Pat ample time to do what he wanted on offense.

No, it's honest.

If it's Simmons or Conerly? Yes, more than good with it assuming somebody like Nolen or Harmon doesn't fall to 31. That is about where they should go, and it's absolutely one of our top needs.

If it's somebody like Ersery? I will be very disappointed. That would be a bit of a reach for need. Not BPA.

Is that specific enough for you?

Well, I mean what do expect?

Only a fool would make some declaration when we don't have any real information.

Everyone wants a star left tackle.

There wasn't one in free agency, and there doesn't appear to be one in this draft.

So wish in one hand...

He wants me to definitevly say whether taking a LT would be good move without knowing who it is LMAO

Absolutely ridiculous. Obviously, I'm fine with a LT in the 1st, but not just anybody.

No. Do better Staylor.

Andy said yesterday he was competing with Kinglsey for the starting LG position.

Yeah, but have you considered the fact that I really, really, really wanted the threepeat???

The whole "we made it to the SB, don't worry" stuff is just kinda over the top.

If making it to the SB means we can win the way we did, there's no reason to worry about the LT spot. Just throw a warm body in there.

Clearly, that's not the case, so it's just bleh.

No one is saying that.

The point is that saying this team is “disorganized” while focusing exclusively on the LT carousel is a dramatic exaggeration.

This team doesn’t have the sustained success it’s had if it’s “disorganized.”

I’d be happy with a Ravens-type draft strategy this year.

That makes sense.

They're winning at drafting late. It's just gonna be a shell game.

This is what I would do.

Just draft good football players that fall.

:eek:!!!

I’d argue they have for the most part.

2020-Sneed, Gay, Danna, Clyde until his injury, Wharton UDRFA
2021-Bolton, Creed, Trey, Gray is a decent role player for day 3
2022-McDuffie, Karlaftis, Leo, Cook, Williams, Watson, Pacheco
2023-Rice
2024-Worthy, Hicks

They’re good at drafting good football players or decent starters aside from 2023. They just haven’t been able to get blue chip players at key positions outside of McDuffie, but they never draft high enough to get those guys.

I’d argue that no other GM has done as good of a job as Veach relative to what assets they’ve had. You’re gonna have a tough time drafting so late.

And yeah I get Veach has had some misses, but so does everybody. The league is blowing Howie Roseman but never bring up the Vikings staff laughing at him for taking Jalen Raegor over Justin Jefferson.

Play good football

They signed a Left tackle with NFL experience and upside in free agency. They may well draft another. It's been addressed, and will continue to be addressed. If we played a game tomorrow, there's a different guy in the lineup who has played well in the NFL at left tackle.

If you are freaking out about plan C already in mid April, well, I don't know what to tell you.

We won 15 games. We beat the Bills in a classic AFCCG. Yeah, we lost the Super Bowl, so?

No Rice, no left tackle on the roster. We're already better.

The right 53.

Yeah it’s in the other thread but Caliendo ain’t winning that job.

He can compete for a spot on the roster with Nourzad and that other rookie we took last year.

He was just the starter in the SB.


Of course I hope someone else shows up but there is a chance we get Caliendo.

Lol

The only chance is a Kingsley injury. If they didn't fully expect Kingsley to win that job, they would have signed another vet.

Or Kingsley just isn't any good. There is a non zero chance of that happening.

Granted, it really shouldn't since he looked credible against the Denver IOL but he also looked credible against the Ravens his debut game and then subsequently shit all over himself

I watched him week 18 and I still beleive in him as a prospect. I'm fully comfortable saying there's no chance he's worse than Caliendo. In fact, I'd go as far as to say there's no chance he's not a significant improvement. You're fee to believe whatever the **** you want though.

If Kingsley "just isn't any good" even at OG, they'd know that by now, and they'd have signed a vet.

"Unless it's Luther Burden..."

No shit. We have enough of a Veach track record in the draft. Of course he has whiffed on some picks. Name me a team that hasnt blown picks?

He has done enough to give him the benefit of doubt. I'm still in the Veach we trust camp.

Yeah - it's more likely he's on the practice squad next season than it is that he's the starter, IMO.

He could well be the first guy out the door if we draft an OL.

"But but but Andy said..."

I'd argue that Veach offered WAY too much to begin with!

Veach only gave up a 2nd round value for OBJ.....Tried to overpay him.....Signed the best FA on the market when OBJ left...

Oh and OBJ missed about half of last season with injury!

There is a non-zero chance of a lot of things happening.

Not having a competent LT last year doesn't make it look like a sharp calculation.


Turns out finding a player as good as Orlando was not as easy as CP insisted it would be.

Unfortunately, Kingsley's issue isn't talent. Dude is big and strong and can move. Just seems like he didn't understand his assignments or thinking too much.

At LG he'll be just fine with Creed next to him.

I'd argue that Donovan Smith DID in fact replace OBJ just fine and it was the 2024 off season that Veach didn't do enough.

OBJ should not even be talked about. Keeping Donovan Smith on for 1 more year should be the conversation.

Yep, if a dude with his skillset can't be at least a slightly above average guard, it means he just really isn't that into football or something.

He wasn't always available but was good enough to help us make a run for the SB and win it.


Of course our last SB win was a strange year in which our defense was lights out and our offense went 15-16 straight drives in the AFC Championship and SB without scoring a TD so that wasn't exactly the same #1 offense that scored 38 points on the Eagles dream team in the SB the year before...

Just being big and strong doesn't mean you can play Left Tackle in the NFL.


You actually have to be able to block elite DE's and Kingsley wasn't close to being that when he was drafted.


He was always a project so I was shocked when he started the year at LT.

Maybe it’s bc of what happened with our tackles recently, but man does this kid scare me. I really hope I’m wrong here but this feels a bit like last year with Kingsley.

This kid isn’t as raw as Kingsley but he only played 271 snaps.

I really hope he’s at least competent. His footwork and technique seem solid and he’s got huge hands that he works well with.

Maybe I’ve just been burned too much but I really hope this kid is passable so we can end this stupid LT carousel we’ve been on for what feels like forever.

Juju’s knee started giving out and he got massively overpaid to leave for NE where he…had knee issues.

McKinnon was about done and Kelce started really falling off. Kadarius Toney and MVS were terrorists and Skyy Moore just ****ing sucked.

We had a major drop off in talent. Thank God they drafted Rashee Rice. He was a huge reason the offense was “good enough” when it needed to be.

I was annoyed and complained when we signed MVS to 11 million a year but at least that dude showed up in the big games.

I still say the reasons he might succeed translate just as well to OT as they do to OG.

And the reasons he failed at OT (hand-placement and functional strength, IMO) are just as big a problem at OG as they are at OT.

He was just asked to do too much, too soon playing OT. It isn't that he translates better to Guard than Tackle. It's that he's really damn raw and Guard is easier.

I really hope we don't give up on him at OT.

And I'd also caution against just assuming he'll lock down the OG job. He may STILL not be ready to start.

And if that's the case, I'd guess that Morris or even Nourzad get a look at the position ahead of Caliendo.