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-   -   Chiefs Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=316581)

petegz28 08-02-2018 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randallflagg (Post 13655974)
Sorry, But I don't agree. This Defense hasn't been "good" since the days of Marty. It has been "passable" at best and a "joke" at worst.

The main theme from one season to another? Sutton. I put Sutton in the same category as Dave Adolph. Little more than a waste of time.

Sutton does remind me a lot of Adolph and GRob to the point that he seems to try to scheme and "out-think" the other team too often when really you just need to line up and punch ****ers in the mouth. In his defense, I think Reid does the same damn thing.

Gary 08-02-2018 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best22 (Post 13655929)
Not defending Sutton, but his 2013 defense stunk. All smoke and mirrors

His best defense was 2014, his second best was 2015

The playoff loss in 2016 was easily predicted because our run defense was far too soft to handle Pittsburgh. The 2013 loss was expected because our pass defense was atrocious in 2013. The 2017 loss wasn't surprising because our defense was a bit of a sieve

But comparing a defense with Houston, Berry, Fuller, and Hitchens to a 2002-2004 defense is a joke. People are selling the D extremely short

Too bad about the Ragland injury. I thought Hitchens and Ragland would have made a big difference right from the get go this year.

Randallflagg 08-02-2018 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 13655978)
Well, the stats again, say otherwise a bit.

If the 90's defense is what we're shooting for, well, I guess good luck.


Defense is a world different from Offense. Or, as someone once stated - "The best Defense is a strong Offense". In other words, you can't sit back and WAIT for something to happen. If the Defense isn't dictating what the Offense can and can't do - then you spend the entire game REACTING. Has nothing to do with the 90s.

Look at ANY successful Defense at ANY level of Football. Attack, Attack and then Attack. Let your backs do THEIR jobs. Let your LBs do THEIR jobs. Let the D Line do THEIR jobs. Don't have your LBs dropping 30 yards into coverage. A decent QB will eat you alive all day - as shown by our past.

You can raise all the hell you want about Marty - or even Cunningham, and it is probably justified - but one damned thing that no one can take from either of them, they were respected all over the NFL with their Defense. Teams HATED coming here to play the Chiefs. Now? It's just another day at the office.

Football is a game. It doesn't change with the decades. It is just "re-invented" to LOOK different. Hell, you "might" fool a team one week - but you won't get away with it for an entire season. Bottom line? It is still played between the hash marks, in the mud, and in the rain and snow.

Best22 08-02-2018 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary (Post 13655996)
Too bad about the Ragland injury. I thought Hitchens and Ragland would have made a big difference right from the get go this year.

Let's see our week 1 preseason roster before we get too worried

Best22 08-02-2018 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randallflagg (Post 13656015)
Defense is a world different from Offense. Or, as someone once stated - "The best Defense is a strong Offense". In other words, you can't sit back and WAIT for something to happen. If the Defense isn't dictating what the Offense can and can't do - then you spend the entire game REACTING. Has nothing to do with the 90s.

Look at ANY successful Defense at ANY level of Football. Attack, Attack and then Attack. Let your backs do THEIR jobs. Let your LBs do THEIR jobs. Let the D Line do THEIR jobs. Don't have your LBs dropping 30 yards into coverage. A decent QB will eat you alive all day - as shown by our past.

You can raise all the hell you want about Marty - or even Cunningham, and it is probably justified - but one damned thing that no one can take from either of them, they were respected all over the NFL with their Defense. Teams HATED coming here to play the Chiefs. Now? It's just another day at the office.

Football is a game. It doesn't change with the decades. It is just "re-invented" to LOOK different. Hell, you "might" fool a team one week - but you won't get away with it for an entire season. Bottom line? It is still played between the hash marks, in the mud, and in the rain and snow.

Yep. Getting pushed around by Steelers and Titans was pathetic. But fans say "oh, only 18 points allowed."

IowaHawkeyeChief 08-02-2018 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best22 (Post 13655929)
Not defending Sutton, but his 2013 defense stunk. All smoke and mirrors

His best defense was 2014, his second best was 2015

The playoff loss in 2016 was easily predicted because our run defense was far too soft to handle Pittsburgh. The 2013 loss was expected because our pass defense was atrocious in 2013. The 2017 loss wasn't surprising because our defense was a bit of a sieve

But comparing a defense with Houston, Berry, Fuller, and Hitchens to a 2002-2004 defense is a joke. People are selling the D extremely short

^this^

Chris Meck 08-02-2018 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 13655980)
Sutton does remind me a lot of Adolph and GRob to the point that he seems to try to scheme and "out-think" the other team too often when really you just need to line up and punch ****ers in the mouth. In his defense, I think Reid does the same damn thing.

I think that was out of necessity. It seems to me that what Veach has said rather loudly in this offseason is that we needed to get younger, faster, and more aggressive.

BossChief 08-02-2018 11:18 AM

Would start on most good defenses

Berry
Hitchens
Jones
Houston
Fuller

Solid defenders

Ragland
Sorensen
Ford
Bailey

Looking to prove they can reach potential

Kpassagnon
Speaks
Nnadi
Amerson
Williams
Watts

Our second team defense is better than the 2003 starting defense.

I can’t believe this comparison is even being made.

Warfield
Bartee
Mccleon
Browning
Sims
Bell
Hicks
Holliday
Maslowski
Woods
Wesley
Fujita

Fujita and Woods were the only guys on that defense that were even solid.

beach tribe 08-02-2018 11:26 AM

Sutton D is good at keeping the other team out of the end zone when it is firing on all cylinders, but it is ridiculously flawed in getting the most potential out of the players on the field. I read a fantastic article on the athletic about Justin Houston, his performance, and how he was utilized and it just disgusted me. Houston is absolutely Elite and Sutton is the only thing holding him back from being an absolute terror.
All that said, with the offenses potential, keeping the other team out of the end zone may be the only thing that's needed to dominate the f****** League

loochy 08-02-2018 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 13656063)

Solid defenders

Ragland
Sorensen
Ford
Bailey

Sorensen - no. He's a backup.
Ford - no. He belongs in the "prove his potenital" group.
Bailey - maybe. He WAS a solid player. Last year he was....not much. He looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane.

keg in kc 08-02-2018 12:08 PM

There is much, much more talent on this defense, and while Sutton should've been fired, Greg Robinson was worse.

MahiMike 08-02-2018 01:20 PM

They need to get back to an emphasis on turnover creation. Remember the 90's?

JakeF 08-02-2018 01:26 PM

As mediocre as Sutton is at times, he's still better than Robinson. Reid is also a better all-around Head Coach than Vermeil was.

loochy 08-02-2018 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 13656391)
They need to get back to an emphasis on turnover creation. Remember the 90's?

Yeah! Remember all those playoff wins?
Posted via Mobile Device

ptlyon 08-02-2018 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 13656404)
Yeah! Remember all those playoff wins?
Posted via Mobile Device

We just didn't generate enough turnovers in those games.

Or field goals.


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