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chiefzilla1501 05-02-2010 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6731652)
You get playmakers at the top of the draft.

You build the rest of the team after the first round.

If you can get a full time playmaker in the second, great, take him.

But don't eschew the core of the taem for a part time player.

A few problems with that take. One is, what do you consider a part-time playmaker? Because I keep hearing the word Cody or Troup or Cam Thomas, who'd probably be a 2-down nose tackle at most, and Golden Tate, who would likely serve in a similar slot capacity as McCluster. Jamaal Charles, if you limit him to 250 carries a game? Darren Sproles, Reggie Bush? Wes Welker?

Secondly, to points 1 and 2, aren't we overlooking the fact that on average about 5 players in the second round tend to be pro bowlers? The fact is, the majority of these players we supposedly whiffed on won't be full-time core players. Most of them will probably be part-time rotational players because the last thing you want is an average player at a core position. It's the second round. You're not going to get a full-time playmaker. And no matter how deep the draft is, the truth is, players in positions of high positional value (3-4 OLB, QB, WR) don't fall into the second round unless there is significant doubt that makes them drop on these boards. In the second round, you either grab great part-time players, grab core players who most likely will never amount to anything beyond a rotational starter, or you grab great players at low positional value (e.g. Safety, Guard, Right Tackle, etc....).

I think in the next 2-3 years, we have tons of opportunity to grab core foundational guys. Especially in free agency or if you hit on a late-day steal (who knows, maybe Sheffield surprises). You only have so many chances to hit on playmakers. And apart from Kindle and Clausen, I don't know who falls into that category.

milkman 05-02-2010 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 6731667)
A few problems with that take. One is, what do you consider a part-time playmaker? Because I keep hearing the word Cody or Troup or Cam Thomas, who'd probably be a 2-down nose tackle at most, and Golden Tate, who would likely serve in a similar slot capacity as McCluster.

Secondly, to points 1 and 2, aren't we overlooking the fact that on average about 5 players in the second round tend to be pro bowlers? The fact is, the majority of these players we supposedly whiffed on won't be full-time core players. Most of them will probably be part-time rotational players because the last thing you want is an average player at a core position. It's the second round. You're not going to get a full-time playmaker. And no matter how deep the draft is, the truth is, players in positions of high positional value (3-4 OLB, QB, WR) don't fall into the second round unless there is significant doubt that makes them drop on these boards. In the second round, you either grab great part-time players, grab core players who most likely will never amount to anything beyond a rotational starter, or you grab great players at low positional value (e.g. Safety, Guard, Right Tackle, etc....).

I think in the next 2-3 years, we have tons of opportunity to grab core foundational guys. Especially in free agency or if you hit on a late-day steal (who knows, maybe Sheffield surprises). You only have so many chances to hit on playmakers. And apart from Kindle and Clausen, I don't know who falls into that category.

Did you not read the post immeditaely preceeding this one.

I said 50% of snaps, a generous number for full time player.

BossChief 05-02-2010 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6731643)
I can't speak for everyone else, but my argument has always been that McCluster will only be a part time playmaker.

If he gets in on more than 50% of the offensive snaps, then I will be fine with the selection.

But until I see it on the field, I see his selection as a luxury pick that a team with all the holes that the Chiefs have can't afford to make, and the fact that the Eagles were ready to select him right after us has no bearing.

Being as small as he is, it is also very possible that he has a rather short shelf life, and may not even be a contributor by the time this team has the rest of the pieces in place.

Again, a luxury pick for a team needing the necessities.

I agree full on with the parts I bolded, but the second one could be said about any player, any time regardless of size of said player.

So, you would have been VERY pissed if we took Maclin or Harvin in the first last year then, right? That would have been a much much higher price to pay for an electric play maker than a second rounder for a player with similar abilities, but with even more versatility.

milkman 05-02-2010 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 6731691)
I agree full on with the parts I bolded, but the second one could be said about any player, any time regardless of size of said player.

So, you would have been VERY pissed if we took Maclin or Harvin in the first last year then, right? That would have been a much much higher price to pay for an electric play maker than a second rounder for a player with similar abilities, but with even more versatility.

I would have been pisse with the selection of either Maclin or Harvin, though to be clear, we were screwed at the top of the draft last year, and I'm not sure there was any pick that I wasn't going to be pissed about.

chiefzilla1501 05-02-2010 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 6731683)
Did you not read the post immeditaely preceeding this one.

I said 50% of snaps, a generous number for full time player.

I think within 2-3 years (once Jones is gone), I think he could be a 5-10 carry-per-game back, a slot receiver, and a kick returner. And he'll be in on most passing downs as either a receiver or a pass protector.

I could care less how many snaps he takes. If he's able to rack up 700-800+ all purpose yards with a high YAC, then to me, it doesn't matter how many snaps he takes. Being solid in pass protection and the return game, and forcing defensive coordinators to specifically scheme for him is icing on the cake.

OnTheWarpath15 05-03-2010 08:46 AM

All the dumbasses that think that Koa Misi or Daryl Washington wouldn't have been playmakers for the worst defense in the NFL, raise your hand.

:facepalm:

The rationalization around here is ****ing priceless.

Chiefnj2 05-03-2010 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 6731258)
You're again talking about a need-based draft. You take the best on your board, period.

.

That isn't what Pioli did. In his interview didn't he say they had 3 guys pegged for the 2(a) pick and went with the player they thought had the smallest chance of making it to 50?

Hootie 05-03-2010 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6732026)
All the dumbasses that think that Koa Misi or Daryl Washington wouldn't have been playmakers for the worst defense in the NFL, raise your hand.

:facepalm:

The rationalization around here is ****ing priceless.

are you going to get over it anytime soon?

Christ you're a baby.

OnTheWarpath15 05-03-2010 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meat Dragon (Post 6732205)
are you going to get over it anytime soon?

Christ you're a baby.

I'm well over it. We're having a conversation here.

Don't like it?

Don't read it.

Hootie 05-03-2010 10:32 AM

my team didn't take who I wanted! that's not fair! Walter Football should be our GM!

DaneMcCloud 05-03-2010 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6732026)
All the dumbasses that think that Koa Misi or Daryl Washington wouldn't have been playmakers for the worst defense in the NFL, raise your hand.

:facepalm:

The rationalization around here is ****ing priceless.

Wait a second:

Are you asking if they would be guys that contain and do what's required of their specific position?

Or are you asking if they'd be playmakers in a sense that they'd singlehandedly change the outcome of the game each week?

Hootie 05-03-2010 10:45 AM

this would have been so much better than McCluster!!!!!

Quote:

Misi has good size and strength for the linebacker position. He has played both with his hand in the dirt as well as in a stand up position. He is a tough, hard-nosed competitor that will fit best as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. Misi will need some work reading route progressions and will be a liability in pure man coverage. Wright is an aggressive defender that attacks the line of scrimmage to disrupt the run as well as rush the passer effectively. Misi is a good football player that will take some time to transition into the linebacker position, but should contribute on special teams as well as a backup as a rookie.

Mecca 05-03-2010 11:33 AM

It's draft time and Hootie is posting, same show different year.

Hootie 05-03-2010 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6732458)
It's draft time and Hootie is posting, same show different year.

all you've shown is that you watch some college football and still have no ****ing idea what you're talking about...

you're like a less established version of Walter Football without the website...

Maybe if you get a domain you can try and out-hack that guy?

Mecca 05-03-2010 12:03 PM

Personally I enjoy how you hate people who may actually have a view that doesn't jive with the Chiefs are the best, there are places like the coalition for that bullshit.


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