Our defense has turned itself around most years. First season in particular where we were one of the worst before turning in a great plahoff run. I know it's frustrating to watch but we have to trust the process. We played Cincy WAY better in the playoffs than we did the regilar season. we have a cooshy schedule the rest of the way for reid and spags to try a lot of things out.

Yeah, almost blowing a 27 point lead to the worst offense in the 21st century still pisses me off just as badly as it did last night.

Our biggest problem was that the D (while Russ was in the game) didn’t stiffen their backs after Pat threw his first 2 INT’s. That was extremely disappointing to me.

I don’t think the scheme works in todays NFL. Frankly, I’d love to see Reid walk into the sunset this off season and overhaul the coaching staff. If Reid stays he should replace Spags.

Stupid.

I'm far from a Spags fan but if he's just coaching, I don't see what much he can do. We can't get pressure unless we blitz. When we blitz, we leave a young secondary vulnerable. Double edged sword.

Now if he's the one telling Veach, "these are the players I'd like to run my preferred scheme" and Veach is just shopping for him according to his wishes, yeah he has to go. We desperately need speed on the D-line.

why would Veach be shopping for players he may not want

The Chiefs are 10-3, have beaten the Broncos 14 straight, are on the.verge of a 7th straight West division title, and have hosted the AFCCG 4 straight.

Please sterilize yourself with a rusty butter knife.

Money/resource/resource allocation issues?

But I do think Spags does have a hand in getting the players he prefers on the DL. And yeah the days of those types of players being big impact are kind of over. You need some finesse and speed to consistently win in today's game.

The defense hasn’t been talented at every level since the 2019 playoffs.

They’re better at corner and LB overall IMO but the lack of pass rush is killing us

Unacceptable. The Chiefs should win every game 69-0 on their way to 10 undefeated seasons.


That said, there needs to be some improvement with our pass rush... it's pretty awful against decent QB's.

Word this morning was there was a lot of anger and yellig on the defensive sideline.....a coach v. player type thing.....anyone catch any of that on tv? I didn't see it

There is a pattern to Spags and Reid for that matter. We have a tendancy to blow large leads under Reid...some that come to mind are:

Indy
Titans
Bucs regular season game a couple years ago
Cinci 3 twice


Spags on the other hand has a tendency to not be able to close teams out. We gave up a 2nd and 34 yesterday to the worst offense in football. We constantly are giving up 3rd and longs. And that has been a hallmark of this defense for quite some time.

Outside of a DPI or Hold or something, you should never, ever straight give up a 2nd and 34. EVER!

Depends if we continue to regress. Chiefs won the Superbowl in 2020, got beat badly in 2021, then got beat in the AFC Championship game by blowing a big lead where we should've won. This year is still a question mark, but it shows we haven't learned from our mistakes the last two weeks, once against a team that seemingly has our number, and the other that inexplicably we allowed to almost come back from 27 down and got outscored 28-7 in pretty much the second half of the game, which is something we usually do to the opponent, not vise versa.

Unfortunately with the success we've had the expectations are going to remain high, but if you lose in the divisional round, or worse the wildcard, and don't make it to the AFC Championship game this year, that's a small but important regression. I hope they make the AFC Championship game this year if not the Superbowl, but if they don't, you have to remove Spags to try and improve the defense next year. Since nobody wants to take Bieniemy you'll have to remove him too and promote Nagy in the offseason, which will get flak from some for the politics of it all, but you can't continue to allow that to be the reason if it's not working. Replacing Spags and Bieniemy won't happen given Reid's penchant for loyalty, but it should happen. If your coordinators are only good enough to get you to the same level every year, but not good enough to get promoted off your staff, then eventually you'll need to make that change.

Right? I swear some of these people are gluttons for punishment. Reid is the best HC this team has had since Stram.

But again, for as much as the defense frustrates me, how can uou possibly put our playoff losses on spags? It was the gazillion sacks and negative offense in Tampa. The defense more than held their own against Cincy. It was the offense that constantly put up three and outs in the second half. It's not like they just sucked. They were repeatedly put in really really bad spots by our offense

I would say that Spags should be given one more season and allow Veach to address the Dline like he has other position groups. A lack of a consistent pass rush (outside Jones) would make any Defensive Coordinator look bad.

Yeah, I mean it's all "FIRE SPAGS" but like...what would you do different?

don't blitz? Ok, well, you're going to get picked apart because we flat can't get there with 4.

Do blitz? Ok, well, you're risking a lot, with an extremely young secondary.

Play zone? Well, that was the first half against Cincinnati. Didn't look like that works too well against the elite QB's if you can't get to them with 4, they'll just wait for someone to find a hole in the zone.

Play man? Well, ok, but then Russell Wilson runs for 50 yards because your defenders are running with the receivers and have their backs to the line.

I mean, this is nuts. Lots of criticism, no answers.

We can't get to the QB with 4. All issues stem from that. It would make ANY defensive coordinator look bad.

There's no part of me that would feel confident another DC would clearly get more out of our very young defense at this point.

I absolutely am not convinced that the grass is greener.

Give the guy more time with a group that's still growing.

Spags isn't going to reinvent himself again. If we are keeping him we need better pass-rush and an elite safety next year, otherwise just pick a guy that specializes in running shell coverages.

Reid drives me absolutely nuts when he watches Pacheco successfully run for 7 yards per carry and then totally forgets that he exists, but I still wouldn't trade him for anyone else.

Players enjoy/respect playing for him, and that is huge.

shell coverages with no pass rush will get you beat 50-0.

that shit works if you can get pressure with 4, PERIOD.

You guys that think there's some defensive scheme that solves everything regardless of talent are batshit.

Terrible post, dude.

Very true and from reading some other posts, it appears yesterday looked far worse than it was. They do have to clean up some things though as they can’t afford to give up a big TD like they did to Mack or the busted coverage TD to Jeudy (I believe).

I am talking about next year. And yes, they need more pass-rush which is why I wanted more than just Dunlap this year.

If Mahomes doesn't throw 3 picks, we're not even having this conversation.

People need to calm the **** down.

I mean we allowed a season high 28 points from the worst offense since the 2012 chiefs... And the game became a 1 score game when their QB engineered a 75 yard touchdown drive before getting knocked out of the game.

It was as bad as it appeared.

Specialize in shell coverage? Do you even know what shell coverages are?

I'm sorry, I just have to say this about all this "shell coverage" "Fangio is a genius, we should run that scheme" shit.

That scheme is not new. It's old. It's as old as the forward ****ing pass. It's not special. It's not some kind of cheat code.

IF and it's a big IF: you can successfully rush the passer with 4, then you can sit back in coverage with 7, taking away the big play and clog passing lanes.

If you CANNOT rush with 4, you will look very, very bad.

The reason it works against the Mahomes/Allen/Burrows of the league is because those defenses running it well can all get rush the passer with 4.

You want the defensive cheatcode? Have 4 pass rushers that can win one on ones consistently.

That's it. That's the whole ****ing thing.

If you don't have that, then you have to live and die by the blitz, like Kansas City does.

It's that simple, and everything else is nonsense.

Yes all day long. I would like to see any Defensive Coordinator that had any sort of success beyond a couple of games without a pass rush. Even average QBs can look great if they have all day to throw. Even the best look bad when they have no time to throw. Look at the Pats/Giants SB when the record setting and undefeated Patriots offense was stifled because they got a ton of pressure on Brady. Same with the record setting Broncos offense against the Seahawks.

All teams run them the point is to get a guy that is comfortable running them a lot.

Except it wasn’t but believe what you want.

Not completely true.

They scored TDs each time not FGs. He nearly cost us the game. Kelce cost us last week and Patrick damn near did yesterday.

I almost feel that he sometimes thinks he is invincible and ANY mistake can be overcome.

I still wouldn't trade him for all the tea in China.

I'm basing more off the totality of work, not just by a few games where they had to pickup the offense. Overall, I don't think you could ever rank Spags defense in the top half of the league, in any given year they've always floated around mid-tier. If you've seen what Brady was able to do with top ten defenses in his career, that seems to be the winning formula. My argument centers around not wasting Pat's prime years, and other playmakers on our team, based on loyalty to a good, but never great defense and/or coordinator. Patrick's trajectory is going towards Aaron Rodgers more than it is Tom Brady at this point, and it's better to see it in advance and correct it rather than let our late 20s stars retire or go to another team before you get it right. If we win the Superbowl this year, or get to the AFC Championship, then I'll gladly say let's try it again. But if they regress and lose out because the defense couldn't stop anyone in the Divisional or Wildcard rounds, then it's a glaring problem at that point in an offseason full of questions on how do we make the team better to get back to the point we were once at.

That’s the thing. Yesterday looked like the Bengals collapse. It’s kinda worrisome

Without a pass rush it doesn’t matter. The Bengals dropped 8 against KC because their three guys could pressure Mahomes. The formula does not and will never change. Pressure the QB and you have a chance. Do not and it can be very hard to win.

Of course. Last week against the Bengals it would not have mattered what you were calling when your DL gets its ass kicked.

Was it Spags that almost cost us the game or Mahomes? This team was cruising up 27-0 before the offense got careless.

Which is exactly why I think he needs one more season with Veach addressing the Dline like he does with any area of weakness. No pass rush and every coordinator and scheme fails. Doesn’t matter if that coordinator is Spags, Belechick, or Buddy Ryan.

What part wasn't? Did they not allow 28 points to the worst offense since the 2012 Chiefs?

The death of this team will be pass rush. Wasn't horrible but it needs to be addressed next year.

They had a 40 yard TD drive. A 60 yard TD drive and two 75 yard TD drives. It's not like Mahomes was turning the ball over in our own red zone.

Oh don't worry, his D will cost us one this year.

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Just don’t get out to a big lead and this defense is fine.

the floor for this defense is giving up 27-29 points this year

that isn't great, but if the floor gives mahomes a chance to win, i'm not that worried

Let's cross that bridge if we get to it. For now it's not just a few games. They have shown up for THE games that matter. That's the totality that matters.. Who cares if we have regular season struggles if we find our way in the playoffs. If we're talking about wasting our prime mahomes years... Its been our offense that's wasted that so far.

I agree we gotta put the pressure on. I think he gets some grace for having a team this young. But I just think people are revising history about how spags has costed us much of anything yet. Or that we have no reason for optimism that he can turn things around for the playoffs.

What? We give up 22.9 PPG on average.

The floor is not 27-29.

i'm saying that's an absolute worst performance we give

The worst part about his d is his reluctance to use speed defensive ends

I'd say it's our complete LACK of speed rushers, but your mileage may vary.

Pretty sure he would use them if he had any.

Where are you finding those guys man, you just pulling them outta your asshole?

Mike Danna and Frank Clark are our speed rushers LMAO

Yup. Entering the off-season we knew this defense needed a full on rebuild.

The secondary was trash, Hitchens and Neimann had to be replaced and our DL outside of Chris Jones was bad.

We hadn’t drafted a 1st rd defender since Marcus Peters. That’s 6 years without premier young talent from the first rd.

And boy did they sure look like it last year. We were an old defense that needed a reset.

I get that people are pissed about the pass rush but we cannot fix every single problem in one offseason. This was never a one year fix.

But this off-season money will open up and I expect us to attack the pass rush.

Having Mahomes with no pass rush is a double edged sword. We can get up big but when the other team is forced to pass....we can't consistently put pressure on them.

It's a toss up between that and both our Offensive Tackles. I think I might siide with your take a bit more though.

You hear a lot from the talking heads on TV that the Chiefs routinely put their corners in challenging situations (Dan Orlovsky mentioned it this morning for example).

Is this referring to the Chiefs putting their corners in a lot of one on one man coverage? It seems like we’ve seen several instances of soft zone coverage this year.

The Chiefs have seemingly had communication issues and coverage breakdowns (especially in goal line situations) both last year with a more veteran secondary and this year with rookies/younger players so is the scheme the problem?

It's hard for me to get behind firing Spags, but it's more due to the fact that I like the person than what he's accomplished. Let's face it....the defense has never been above average during his time in KC. And at times it's been bad. He's had a very up and down career in general.

We could do a lot worse than Spags but I also think there are people available who would do better.

We have a pass rush problem but are at 42 sacks and on pace for 55.

6 sacks and 11 QB hits yesterday. A causal fan looking at boxscore stats would think we’re elite LMAO

DEN had 13 drives yesterday. 7 ended with punts. 2 ended with INTs by the KC defense.

DEN scored on four drives. Three of which occurred within less than 20 minutes and accounted for 34 snaps, essentially back to back with little to no rest.

The average length of drive for the other 9 DEN drives was 8.1 yards per drive.

Its not just casual fans


there was a bunch of dipshits bragging about the Defense in the GDT yestderday vs the shittiest offense if football

The Chiefs defense is a power hitter that bats .235

Specializes in running shell coverages ROFL

This team has a SERIOUS problem at stopping teams in the redzone though. Allowing 4 TDs to Denver is ****ing pitiful

I feel like Spags' job is to make chicken soup out of some good chicken parts with some chicken shit added in. He needs less shit and more chicken.

That's fair

I tend to agree with this in general. And I think there are much worse options than Spags out there. But go back and watch the Bengals D on our last drive, vs. our D in the 4th quarter.

The Bengals are flashing all over the place, in an organized way, could be cover-0, could be rush 3 with a spy - you really can't tell until the snap. They seem to be doing a ton of complicated crap and they're always moving around, yet still know exactly where they're supposed to be, and I suspect confusing Mahomes with it.

Our D maybe threatens one extra rusher sometimes. But other than that they seem to just mostly sit there looking lifeless as they wait for the snap.

Maybe there's good reasons why we can't do what the Bengals are doing. But to my layman eye, if I was on offense, I'd rather play against the Chiefs.

No question. They haven't been good in the RZ. Though some of them were ridiculous circus catches, a la Mike Williams making that insane one-handed diving snag, or whatever. There's been a handful of those just great execution plays against the defense that no defense was going to defend.

But overall the Chiefs defense hasn't been good in the RZ. I think one of the worst this season.


But I just can't put all the blame on the defense for yesterday's debacle in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. They were on the field for 34+ snaps with almost no rest.

I mean, come on. That's three 10-12 play drives back-to-back-to-back. Any defense is going to get tired about halfway through that. For example, the DAL defense were put in a similar situation vs. HOU. Their ST and offense turned the ball over twice in short order, and HOU scored a pair of TDs from less than 30 yards out. One of the best defenses in the league, if not the best defense, allowed a pair of TDs against the worst offense in the league. And no one's calling for the DAL DC's head today.


Add in the fact that the secondary is still learning and still having issues with communication, well, it wasn't shocking that they gave up a couple plays.

But if the Chiefs offense doesn't put our defense in that situation, and at least force DEN to drive 65+ yards, I seriously doubt they score three TDs. In fact, their season stats and probability says they only score 19 points at most. They were gifted great field position three times by Mahomes and got a little lucky.

We need pass rush from our front four in the worst way. I'm happy with our LBers and DBs, and I love the pressure they generate on blitzes, but our D-Line needs to be upgraded ASAP. End, specifically.

I'm not quite understanding how a defensive scheme that Spags claims is supposed to thrive with the lead continually gives up points in the way they do with the lead. They have drafted players, thrown money at veteran free agents, they have moved and replaced most of the position coaches. And still the same bottom 15 defense is always the result. At some point you homers are going to have to admit that Spags system has grown stale and is no longer a reliable defensive scheme. No matter how many new players you keep throwing at it. It's broken, and so is Spags.

Turnovers aside. Mahomes needs to keep firing. Period. Could you imagine him being gun shy on the 1st TD to McKinnon? How many QB's just tuck it in and take the loss of yards in the situation? Easily the majority of them tuck it. And you have to think even the QB's who don't, do any of them have the abilities of Mahomes to actually pull it off? Pfft. Keep firing Patrick/

Defense ****ing sucks, period. From the man running the scheme on down to the homers that are too blind to see it.

The Cowboys great D gave up 23 to the ****ing Texans who were missing both of their starting WRs.

Welcome to the NFL.

Shit happens.

I'll be honest, I was getting pissed yesterday because I know they are capable of way more.

I also think that we kept it pretty vanilla, and I said as much in the game day thread.

No need to give away good shit against the Donks.

I believed in them before, I'm sticking with it. Every team goes through some rough runs.

a week before christmas we can expect some quit in the texans

I don't know if I'd count on that from the team that almost beat the Cowboys in Dallas.

Nope. The math is pretty clear. Turn the ball over twice in a game in the NFL in the SB era, and the odds of winning go down to under 50%. Turn it over 3 times and it's under 20%, iirc. Only because of Mahomes have the Chiefs been able to maintain a winning record when turning the ball over 2 times or more in a game.

Throwing back-to-back picks in an NFL game is almost always a loss. Mahomes has to dial back the gunslinger stuff a bit, and he knows it. Though that one pick by Surtain was just ridiculous. That was just lucky.

Aww, warm and fuzzies. Loves!

We should breath a sigh of relief now. stalory has brought us reason and insanity.

Davis Mills will not have career day!

If Pat methodically drives the ball down and scores a TD before half, most of you aren't bitching.

Whatever you say weirdo.

Andy would agree with me. Turnovers aside. Keep firing, Patrick/

Scheme is supposed to thrive with the lead. They had a 27-0 lead to the worst offense in football. Damn near gave it up. The TD drives of Denver were 42yds, 60yds, 75yds and 75yds. Not exactly short drives there. 4 td's to the worst offense in football.

Defense sucks, period. Spags scheme puts fear in no team. It's stale, old unreliable and ineffective. And you think that you will be facing the likes of a washed up Russell Wilson or Nobody Rypien in the playoffs? With this defense Mahomes won't have no choice but to keep firing.

You can barely even see the TV anyway. Go back to your mashed taters and gravy old man. ;)

Whatever makes you feel better.