Establish it.

Show us all where MU fans have been claiming MU is a dynasty program.

I think every single MU fan in this thread will acknowledge that we are nowhere near a dynasty program, but that we're having a nice run of success of late and hope to become a consistently successful program going forward.

I know there's a lot of asshurt from the KU and K-State fans around here so they're erecting straw-men to make themselves feel better, but by all means, go ahead and show us all where MU fans have made themselves out to be Alabama.

At your current rate it'd be more like 2-6 or 3-9 than 3-5. If the Big XII doesn't expand and the ACC, Big 10, Pac 12 and SEC do, then your road to the title game will be much more difficult without a conference championship game.

Really?

Kids like Noel Devine, Geno Smith (their current starting QB), Stedman Bailey (their starting WR), Ivan McCartney (their #3 WR), Jorge Wright (their starting NT), Eain Smith (their starting safety). They don't matter to the program. :rolleyes:

It all stems from the old arguments we used to have how KU is a BB school. Naturally, MU fans would all start clamoring about how they're a "football" school. In reality, though, MU is just a school. One that is mediocre in both sports and severely lacking trophies.

Is MU football better than KU football right now? Obviously. Is MU more valuable to other conferences? Yes.

So they got that going for them.

Yeah, I think they would have. They play so many other teams outside of the divison it's not like you wouldn't be tested against other very good teams regardless of what division you are in. But when you start out at such a disavantage it would be nice to not be in a division with team with the biggest advantage in the sport.

So really it all gets back to KU's complete inability to discuss anything without yacking about basketball.

Got it.

And that's where the analogy is a little flawed.

Well, MLB also has a playoff system in place where the ability to sneak in through weak competition and catch fire is a pretty big deal - you don't have that in CFB.

In basketball you may be right (witness Memphis), but I think in major college football you want to be playing against the best as often as you can. That's how you'll improve your program to the point that every 5-6 years you may actually have that legitimately excellent team.

Relax, man. It doesn't get back to anything. You think we're building a strawman and that's fine. I don't care enough to go search for posts to prove you wrong. MU fans think that the Tigers are a football power. It is what it is.

In other words "I got nothing"

And you said Rams Fan was bad at this...

Power? No. But Pinkel has developed a very good program. This is much is indisputable, IMO.

As I've said a number of times, MU should be a perennial top-25 team. That's where my expectations are at this point in the program's development. Elite? Not close. But very solid.

Like I said, man, I don't really care enough to go back and look for posts from the years past.

Yeah really, they built their program with PA kids. Devine was an exception, but not really a program builder. But carry on if you must.

Acting dumber than he actually is and defending Wickedson can be an exhausting existence for Pants.

How much longer until we need a third conference re-alignment thread?

you can say the same about MU and football

About 10 more Wickedson posts.

There is no such thing as a "basketball school". All "basketball school" means is that your football team sucks. There are no schools with consistently good football teams that consider themselves "basketball schools".

Florida has won as many basketball titles in the last decade as KU has won in school history. Florida doesn't give a shit about basketball.

WVU's roster has 19 kids from FL and 12 from PA.

Ouch. Killshot.

That would have been correct prior to 2008.

As soon as the MWC starts accepting offers from the Kansas schools, I suppose.

Yes, this has been brought up before. I think UK, UNC, Duke, KU would consider themselves basketball schools even if one should win 2 National Championships in football back to back in 2015 and 2016.

But I agree, football is by far the #1 sport.

We are in a conference realignment thread and conference realignment is almost exclusively football oriented.

If MU fans start yacking about football during the annual NCAA tournament thread, feel free to chastise them for it, otherwise you're just talking out your ass.

If the Lakers win back to back Super Bowls, they will still consider themselves to be a basketball team. That's not going to happen, though.

Football schools can win basketball championships. Basketball schools don't win football championships.

It still is. KU has 2.

What is Missouri then?

Duke - probably. KU - definitely.

UNC - remember the couple of years where they were in a down period (between Smith and Roy, IIRC)? They had a pretty good football program around that same time and suddenly you started to see some UNC pride in the football team. If UNC had both a contender in football and a contender in basketball - I think they'd become a 'football school' real quickly.

KY - Same story. They started to get a little uppity when they had that fat shit, lefty quarterback that won them a few games and the post-Tubby era wasn't going gangbusters for them.

Saul's right - with very few exceptions, a 'basketball school' will turn football school in a hurry if the football team is winning.

Missouri is a school with a good basketball team and a good football team. Therefore, MU fans care much more about football. This isn't that difficult.

3 in the NCAA tournament era (1952, 1988, 2008). 2 in the pre-tournament era (1922, 1923).

You don't think UNC could ever get a Garry Patterson and sneak in a couple NCs? Ever? Snyder almost did it with ****ing K-State. Look, I'm not arguing here that should a school have a rich tradition in both sports it would consider itself a basketball school over a football one. But a school's history definitely plays a huge part in how the fans perceive things. If KU had a top 25 football program for the last 10 years, we would still be calling ourselves a basketball school today.

I wish they wouldn't be breaking up all the conferences and the rivals. But I understand it. Sad pants.

It's not even about the NCs, it's about history and tradition.

How's that explain Duke?

I know, I was just correcting him. If you wanna talk history and tradition, KU has it. There's no denying that. And I agree with you. Because of that, we'll always be known as a basketball school even if we get a top football program.

Same as K-State.

That's actually a pretty fair statement.

Bo, did you get your degree from UNL? Just curious, because I'm not sure I ever heard one way or the other.

Coach K's legend, I guess? I don't know.

Do you consider UCONN to be on par with Duke? I don't. Duke has been a constant powerhouse since we were able to understand what sports are. UCONN has 1 less NC, but nobody considers them to be the elite year in and year out.

Anyway, all this basketball talk is giving this thread HPV.

Negative.

10-4

Name 1 school with a consistently good football team that considers itself a basketball school.

I would submit that there are around 30 schools that are consistently good in football. If you're right, at least 1 of them should be a basketball school.

Are there schools that have a rich basketball tradition that are consistently good in football?

There aren't any. I still maintain my previous statements, though. Tradition determines how a fanbase views itself. Is there a school with a rich basketball tradition that doesn't consider itself as such? I would submit that should a school with a rich basketball tradition become a perennial top 25 program in football, it would still consider itself to be a basketball school.

Like I said - watch North Carolina whenever they're winning football games.

If they had a program like, I dunno, VaTech's - I think they'd consider themselves a football school. I'm almost certain they would if they had a program like Auburn's.

UCLA, Kansas and maybe Duke are the only schools that wouldn't 'turn', IMO. And if any of those schools had a run of about 10 years where their football program was as successful or more successful than their basketball program, I think they would as well.

I would say that Florida, Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan, Pitt, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Missouri, and Notre Dame have all been at least pretty good at both sports in recent history. Do you think any of these schools consider themselves to be basketball schools?

Of that list I could see an argument made for Sparty..

I think Michigan State would probably consider itself to be a basketball school, but I'm not sure. Once again, you're arguing a different side of what I'm trying to say. Either one of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Texas or Oklahoma could win every single basketball championship from today till the end of days and they would still be a football school because that's what their tradition dictates. Schools with no real tradition are going to gravitate towards football as it is the more popular sport and is much bigger.

If I'm starting a program today, all my resources would go to football. You won't find me arguing otherwise.

UCLA would turn in a heartbeat.

Its a moot point, though. I say that guys who walk around with feces smeared on their faces don't bang supermodels. Pants says that a if a guy who had feces smeared on his face banged a supermodel, then he probably would keep walking around covered in shit.

That will never happen, though. Duke and Kansas are about as likely to win national titles in football as tubgirl's twin brother is to bang Gisele.

You could be right, man, I don't know. I think UNC will always be basketball simply because His Airness went there. I think you can put Kentucky in the category of would never turn. Would the fans go nuts if all of a sudden their school was good in football? Of course. Kansas fans did in 2007. They would still be the proud owners of that "Most winning-est basketball program in the history of basketball" though.

Tom Izzo refers to Michigan State as a football school.

Tom Izzo is a very humble man. But like I said, I wasn't sure about MichSt. Magic Johnson did make them love the sport, though.

I hope ku and ksu send extra nice Christmas cards this year.

ChipBrownOB: Texas agreeing to TCU in the B12 a major concession to rest of league by allowing everyone to recruit DFW even more.

What?

As though kids in Dallas weren't looking to other XII schools because TCU was in the Big East?

That's just dumb. Good lord, Chip Brown sucks.

The whole wording of that tweet just shows how f'd up the Big 12 is.

Why the hell is Texas "allowing" TCU in? I thought supermajority is all that's needed? Does Deloss Dodds have veto power over every decision?

Mizzou is really really stupid for wanting to leave this conference.

Of course Chip Brown makes his money off homer Texas fans, of course he is going to say stupid shit like that.

There's a rumor floating around that Mizzou has the votes and will be in the East with Arkansas as the rivalry game.

That would mean we would play Florida, Kentucky, Vandy, Ole Miss, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Arkansas every year plus one other team from the West, I believe.

That's doable. If we can sweep the non-con, and I think we'd schedule patsies, there's no reason we couldn't win 9 games or so with regularity. Florida's the only monster on that schedule, and you never know what's going to happen now that Urban's gone.

It's tougher than the Big Leftovers, but it's not a death sentence.

I don't care if we're in the East or the West, lets just get the deal done!!!

You forgot Georgia and Florida was good before Urban.

Nice avatar.

I love the thought of going to the East and having a crossover with Arkansas; freakin' love it.

Oh, and if you are salivating at the idea of the SEC - do NOT read Joe Strauss's twitter right now. It's not sunshine and roses.

"Insecurity in its DNA" was his last one.

Seriously, Mizzou, if you blow this, I will seriously **** you up.

Steal away - I couldn't find the one with the tiger slashes over "M.I.Z. - S.E.C." so I went with my best backup option.

It'll do.

I like it, but I'm too superstitious to use it until (if?) it becomes official.

/knocks on wood

Is Tennessee starting to finally right the ship?

Phil Fulmer got lazy and I warned all my Tennessee friends that Kiffin was the ultimate douche. Dooley may do ok there. They still get a top-15 recruiting class every year so if he can coach than they should get better. Their true sophomore QB is pretty damn good but their O-Line is shit.

Georgia is beatable. They're tough, but they're beatable. Florida was good under Spurrier, down under Zook, up under Urban, and TBD under Muschamp.

He's saying there's insecurity in MU's DNA? Because of the Big 10 thing? I'm pretty sure this is different, but then again, they were probably sure the invite was there the 1st time as well.

I have a good feeling about Coach Boom.

Georgia needs to get rid of Richt.

Dear Big Texas:

Dew says.

Suck,
DeezNutz

Yes, and the evidently MU (as an entity) hasn't even completely decided if they'd leave the XII.

It's Strauss essentially saying the same thing the MU fatalists have been saying for months: "We're Mizzou - we will **** this up"

I sometimes feel that the whole program is little more than a kicked puppy.

C'mon dammit - don't **** this up. 3/4s of the schools in the country would dream of this shot, don't waffle and blow it.

Somehow, I have this fatalist image of Deaton listening to KK and thinking, "you know, this guy is sharp as a tack".

I'm seeing this rumor coming from 3 independent places. Hope there's something to it.

What rumor?

One of the SEC division rumors I have heard is:

North
Arkansas
Missouri
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Alabama
Auburn

South
Texas A&M
LSU
Ole Miss
Miss St
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina

9 Game schedule and 2 perment divisonal cross overs ala PAC-12.

.

Red flags raise when the source states that an institution will not "loose their rivalry game."

Reads like a CP post.

Kansas won the NCAA Football Championship in 1996!

See what I did there?

Posted a completely false statement.

BOOM. HEADSHOT.

Get that shit out of the way to make room for more basketball trophies!

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4486/picture1lv.png

LMAO

Agreed, but to say the football programs of both of these schools hasn't been cyclic, would be dishonest.
History would show us, both have periods of being door mats, and then getting stronger and more competitive.

Neither has sustained a high level of play for more than a few years.

What you say is true, but Mizzou should have always been much better than it has been in football. (Due to several factors, including the fact that it's the only major university in a state with two decently large cities.)

What Mizzou's done recently should have been the norm all along. Pinkel, for all his flaws, has built a program. They expect to be good year in and year out. Players know they can come to Mizzou and be drafted highly into the NFL... the expectation is to win. It's a shift in attitude and commitment, and I don't see it going the other way any time soon.