The fallacy there is that distance off the tee makes you closer to the hole. It may or may not. Tigers290 drive that's more accurate than Player X from 300 will leave him the same distance (or better) from the hole.

If these stats are 100% accurate, his approach distances are alarming, considering Mickelson has increased his driving distance over this time span.

Also, in 2000 according to TW's website, he was #1 is GIR and Total Driving. In 2005 his avg. driving distance was 315, this is where I'd expect him to be at now with the driver.

I understand that Tiger is still "very good," but this is Tiger freaking Woods. Very good on tour is not going to cut it for him. 291 driving distance is horrible, imagine where he'd be at 310+. The stack and tilt is powerless.

The law of averages comes into play there. More times than not, it puts you closer to the hole.

Most times when it doesn't are/could be more situations of hitting it thru a dogleg etc when distance isn't exactly a key there, but more positioning.

Tiger also can't take full advantage of the new technological advances in driver, shaft etc because he can't hit driver accurately enough.

I guess 291 would be alright if he was straight down the fairway the far majority of the time, but TW isn't. He is all over the place all the while hitting it 25 yards shorter on average from his peak driving averages.

It's actually pretty impressive that he can hit as many greens as he does with not only where he hits it off the tee, but the distance he hits it compared to others on tour.

He's a great iron player. I like the swing changes he's made with Foley,

When Tiger was 191st on tour in Driving Accuracy in 2005, he was 1st in Par 4 and Par 5 birdie percentage, and 6th in GIR

He's 58th in driving accuracy this year. He's 36th in GIR, 2nd in Par 5 birdies and 32nd in Par 4 birdies.

If you bomb the driver, you get scoring clubs in your hands. You get scoring clubs in your hands, you make birdies.

This pretty much sums up Tiger here lately in the Majors....

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/ti...-championships

You're right. I double-checked the detailed Tour stats and found that 07 Tiger was 170 from the hole after his tee shots. 13 Tiger is 182 from it.

23rd in clubhead speed in 2013 at 118 MPH
1st in clubhead speed in 2007 at 123 MPH.

27th in '13 ball speed at 175 MPH
1st in '07 ball speed at 180 MPH

Bubba Watson was second both years. He gained almost 3 MPH of ball speed while Tiger lost 5.

So, '07 Tiger is 12 yards closer (a full club) while also being a club and a half longer.

That means if '07 Tiger is faced with that 170, he's hitting a full 9-iron/soft 8, while '13 Tiger is hitting a full seven/soft six.

That shit makes a difference.

Is that on par 4s and par 5s as well?

It's overall. He went from 40th to like 140th. It's important to remember though that the approach breakdown by distance is standard for everyone. So Tiger has gone from superhuman at all approach distances to merely very good. I think that's the main reason he's falling just short of his former self.

So what's he average on par 4s alone? 100 yards?

Screw all that I need a putting guru to help me putt better. At almost 52 years of age I feel my swing is alive as ever and if I would putt well I would shoot a lot of great scores. A guy taught me to hit down through my putts when I was a teen and I've decided that screwed me for decades.......:doh!:

Yeah. That's really stupid advice. You're just going to drive the ball into the ground and start it offline that way.

It was from a respected Golf Pro too and I ate up everything he ever tried to teach me about golf. Some of that info was priceless but not the putting advice so much. LOL

I vow to putt better.

IMO putting is the most personal preference, touch and feel part of the game. I have long been a fan of the Dave Pelz eyes over the putting line and straight back and straight through pendulum stroke (using a center shafted putter).

I pretty much have a SBST stroke and use a face balanced putter, but I hate Pelz's idea that you should hit every putt with a speed to where it would go 18" past the hole. I think amateurs tend to hit short putts too hard and the effect is to make the hole smaller.

Differing opinions.

I'm just going to start trying to roll the ball just the opposite that I have for years. Level to the ground and maybe slightly upward....through the stroke.

The 18" past the hole theory is the one thing of Pelz that I really don't completely apply. There are situations where drilling a put will take out the break and there are those where more touch is needed and your risk lipping out with a firm put.

So when you hit down on it putting... were you trying to pop it into the air? I'm confused on the hitting down part.

Anyway, I try to hit the ball as horizontal to the ground as possible. Don't want the putter to be in an upswing or downswing, just right at level. I'm pretty good at putting and I sink my fair share of shit outside of 15 ft. Unfortunately it is for par saving endeavors because I cannot get off the tee right now.

My two keys to putting, which generally would help far more if I weren't so ADD and forgetful, are to take the putter back low and keep my left wrist angle at impact. I find I get the purest strike that way.

I've also found that the slower I take the putter head away on putts inside five feet, the better my contact. YMMV.

LOL NO. See Gary Player and the "Pop Stroke". Also if you hit down through the ball properly it will scoot just a hair and then crawl into the hole like a ground squirrel.

It never served me consistent enough although when struck well watching the ball crawl into the hole is a great thing.

I researched this and found that he did this only within 10 feet. That he did not do a follow through which seems a bit bizarre but he is a 9x major champion so can't argue against him. I guess we each have our methods, but hitting down on the putter just seems like a bad idea. You are going to pinch the ball into the ground and who knows what is going to happen after.

No pros that I know of do the pop putting currently, so that might give you an idea of where that methodology has gone. Maybe it is effective, but only for Gary Player.

Pplayed for the first time in two weeks. Had an awful front at 12 over, but nutted up on the back with 3 over to shot 1 under my handy. I was happy with that. Two snowmen on the front.

I know there are some golf experts out on CP, wanted to run something by you guys as I am too much of a cheapass to pay $80 for a pro's opinion.

When I miss with my swing, it is a low draw, borderline hook. About half the height of a ball flight when I strike it pure, and I do this starting with my 4 iron on up to the big D. I am pretty sure it is in my grip, as when I completely nail the grip as in it feels great and I have complete control of the club, I hit it pure over 90% of the time. The problem is when I don't get that consistent grip that is ideal, I tend to get this miss.

Any grip drills out there? I use the interlock and much prefer it to the other grips. Again with the miss I still strike it pretty good, but it is a half height ball flight with a draw/hook.

Maybe it is not the grip...

There is the classic drill where you put a tee in between the part of your hands where your two thumbs meet(top of tee facing you). If you take a swing and the tee comes out then your hands are coming apart.

I do a lot better helping people when I can see things visually. When I struggle, I get the old hook as well, since my ball flight is a natural draw. I started going with a slightly weaker grip and making sure that my hips always come through. I drill to make sure your lower body comes through while keeping your hands from racing out in front is to practice with both your feet together. When you swing the only way you can hit the ball with any strength at all is to use your lower body. If you only use your arms then you are going to nearly fall over as you swing.

You also should check how your shoulders/spine angle is set. If your shoulders are level try dropping your right shoulder a little(assuming you are a righty).

Try and keep your body turning throughout the swing, don't stop when you get to the ball. Your arms flip over and you'll release the club too soon, causing you to hit a low pull yank.

Tiger 9 under through 14.

The only play is to go for it. You miss, you still shoot 63 and have the lead. You hit it, you have 59 and 58 in play.

Pussy

He layed up?

Come on man. Chance to shoot 58 and he's laying up?


****ing David Sims.

"230 to carry and the tour pro is layin' up"

He just choked it away. What an awful shot there.

IF he pulls this out and does it, this 59 would be one of if not the best 59 ever shot.

To shoot 59 there? On that golf course? Yeah, thats crazy.

I could hit that shot.

Which is why I don't get the layup. Noone remembers it if he misses the shot, shoots 63, and is still clear of the field by 3 or 4. But they do remember if he shoots 59 or 58.

He should have just taken 5 wood and hit it. If he hits it long, it's a free drop and he can still make birdie.

If he hits it in the water, take your drop, make bogey and move on.

Jesus

Out of that rough to stick it to 4 feet.

Played today.

Shot a 6 over 77 but it was at a hard course and today was windy. Always is down here in SA. Started off with two bogeys which didn't help matters.

Started doing something and realized I was hitting more fairways. I started teeing the ball up in the exact center (half-way point) between the tee box markers. Probably just a psychological factor and will not be reproduce-able next time I play, but I split the remaining fairways that I did this. Someone else try this out and see if it works for them? Or maybe it is mind job BS...

Just watched highlights of this round.

They showed a lot of Tiger's wedges and putts, but no drivers.

They kept mentioning that he "hit it into the trees" and had to "hack it up to the green." I don't think this bodes well for next week. If Tiger still can't get off the tee no way he wins the PGA.

Im a 14 handicapper and have been golfing with some old junk spalding blades since I was 14.

I thought it was time to upgrade so I Just bought a set of titleist DTR's from the 90s.

what a hell of a difference. these titleists are so much better weighted and balanced compared to those old shitty spaldings.

I took them to the range and they are so much more forgiving of mis hits and I get about another 20-25 yards on each club.

I have never really swung any newer irons, but I think these old titleists are going to drop my handicap about 5 or 6 strokes.

Not sure if you are trolling us here. Your upgrade is to buy some 20+ year old irons that were still even pre-DCI?

not trolling, don't have money to invest in anything brand new. went used. was going to buy eye 2's but these were a hundred bucks less. I golf on a budget, which is why I have been hitting 30 year old blades. I spent 40 bucks on these clubs. sorry if it seems like im trolling but I just wanted to say that I am amazed with the performance of these clubs. I have hit new taylormade burner 2.0 and these honestly feel very similar.

Glad you like them. I probably would have spent another 10 bucks and gotten some 845s, but I understand your quandary.

I roll old clubs also. eBay. And returned pre owned items for woods. Same mallet putter for the last 8-10 years. I often wonder how much an updated set of irons would help my game

I've started using 3 & 4 irons off the tees. We're not playing 6400 yard blues anymore. My ideal distance would be 61 or 6200. I played Ironhorse two weeks back with a 20-handicapper who wanted to play from 5900. And it was actually quite fun because I had to use all sorts of different clubs off the tee and think more about landing spots than just teeing up driver every hole.

The USGA has a "tee it forward" campaign suggesting people do so to make the game more fun and get more scoring chances. I think most weekend warriors have trouble with 390 par 4s because you have to hit it 250 and straight to have a legit approach. If you're wide you have very little chance getting to the green in 2 esp if you're hitting just off the fairway from 180 in rough.

Not much, really. There has been very little technological advancement in iron design. SGI irons are easier to hit straight, but they are also terrible from less than pristine lies. They do help people with swings that are way too steep, but you're a much better golfer than that.

All the distance gains in irons come from strengthening the lofts and lengthening the shafts. Both of which make the club harder to hit.

For example, every iron Tiger has ever played as a pro has been an exact clone of his Mizuno MP14/MP29 combo set that he used as an amateur.

I went from a three year old set of I5s to a 23 year old set of Eye 2 + no + irons at the end of 2011. The Eye 2s are essentially as long, and more forgiving.

I would probably score better where I'd play if I would take the driver out of the back on most holes. I could hit a 5 wood and have a mid-short iron approach in on almost all the Par 4s, and still several wedge opportunities, but I play for birdies, thus bringing in double bogeys, and worse.

Here's something you could try, and it's both useful and fun: go to the range and learn how to hit a half driver. I did this last year because there is a Par 4 I play that plays about 240 and I would have to nut a 3 wood to get it there and if I hit it poorly at all I would be blocked out by trouble. I found that taking a half-3/4 swing with a driver would put me on or near the surface with far fewer issues if I didn't make a good swing. It would be a wise way to play those shortish par 4s.

Wow, really dumb move by Tiger, just hit a circus cut from the deep rough on hole 8. Did a chicken wing thing with his elbow, really dumb if you ask me. He is up 8 strokes on second place, not a time to pull this type of shot with the major coming up and his injury history.

And almost sunk the chip for birdie.

Getting off the tee is critical in golf, absolutely critical. It is just below putting, but only just below it.

With today's 3 wood distances, if you are a young strong golfer, you don't really need a driver cause the 3 wood goes 270+. Hit that sucker straight off most tees and you are near scratch golfer I would think.

I still carry a driver, but I probably shouldn't.

The half driver is a fun shot, rolls a long way for me. I like the half three wood too on holes where I should be hitting a long iron.

Yep.

My driver is officially out of the bag. I've gone Full Phil and put a 13.5 X Hot Pro 3W in the bag, and it's just as long as my driver.

If anyone is interested in a Nike VRS with an Ion played Ahina in stiff, let me know.

Baba boooey. Baba. Boooey

lol

Nice cry from someone in the gallery

Did it yesterday too when Keegan got stuck in the rough on 18. Earlier a guy barked out to Chris Wood "you're not Tiger Woods!", to which Nantz said "That's not very nice."


But nothing tops this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPyOHeLEH6g

Ha! Boooooom Shaka laka

This one is the best of all-time probably, Tiger teeing off on #1 at TPC last year. FF the clip to the :45 second mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI6-dcpsQ-s


The heckler made it to another hold to do it again on #13 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZHTSqhQro

What happened today, didn't get too watch

I think the score literally didn't change. I went to the race today, so I only saw the beginning of the round being replayed on golf channel.

So just bought the V1 swing analysis on the iPad . If any of you guys are interested in seeing your swing and analyzing the lines, it's a great buy

How much was it?

4.99$

Speaking of apps, I waited for two years for Ping to release their iPing app for Androids. They finally did, made a cradle for the Galaxy S3, my phone, only for the app to get the worst reviews of any app I've ever seen.

Who has the best shot at the last major of 2013

Tiger is going to have to hit his driver on the last two holes of this course. If he's too chickenshit to do it, he won't win. If he can pull it off, he's the favorite. Of course, that's all moot if he still has his weekend yips in the majors.

I'll guarantee you this: if he's in the lead on Sunday front-running nuthuggers like KStater will be pumping AIDS into this thread nonstop.

I think Phil will show up this week. I think his heart wasn't in it last week. He won the open, how can he muster up enough emotion to compete at Firestone.

If he can get his head back into it I think he contends this week

Phil won the PGA at Baltusrol, which is a course a lot like Oak Hill. He has a shot, but that finishing stretch will be tough for him. I wonder if he'll put the Phrankenwood in play this week.

He's as good out of the deep shit around the greens as anyone, so that might be a helpful development for him, but Oak Hill is a pretty tough driving course, so he'll need his A game off the tee.

Yeah but who's going to win the Price Cutter? I have Sky Box Passes and Beer Garden Passes. Whatever they're called. We've provided the scoring building for several years now so I always have passes. I never go but this year I am. Think I'll sit in the Sky Box and have a Martini. LOL I consider myself a hick. ... I've played Highland Springs many times and I've played well there but these guys will torch it. Low 60 rounds and the winner will shoot -20 or something crazy like that. Woo Whoo! Price Cutter baby!

Win- Dustin Johnson
Place - Bradley
Show - Mahan

It's about time for Dustin Johnson to come through. He is definitely due, but he is also good for a blowup round which takes him out of the top finishing spots.

Mahan is do as well, and will be a multiple major champion before it is all said and done.

I definitely don't like Tiger's chances, he can't get off the tee it seems. And his play in the weekend at Bridgestone was just flat as hell. He can't play on the weekends like he can on Thursday, Friday.

I like Cabrera or Scott to win this, the top finishers at the Master's.

I never get any of your gifs. Eddie Murphy is always funny though.

If tiger can drive it well enough he'll be right there. I'm going way out and saying fowler plays well and wins

At 80-1, Cabrera's carrying some serious value with the way he drives and his performances at Augusta and Muirfield. I've picked Scott every major this year and he's got another great chance this week but he's 3rd on the odds so he's not carrying any money any more.

Tiger at 3.5-1 is too pricey. Obv the favorite but in a field with 156 of the world's best and given he's 0-19 in recent majors, those odds are terrible.

If we're calling our shots, I'll take Brandt Snedeker at 25/1

johnson gets out of control with that taylor made driver at times. he could pull it off tho

I just don't know if Johnson, Snedeker, or Mahan have the mental fortitude to win a major. I really like Hunter Mahan, but he's mentally weak. He's pissed his pants in every major he's contended at, choked at the Ryder Cup, and has a suspect short game.

Maybe he turns the corner, but he could just be a non-asshole Scott Hoch.

I'd probably go with Muffner. He'll need a good putting week to win, but he can go super low and he's a flatliner.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fox-spo...358--golf.html

Starting in 2015, the US Open is moving to FOX. NBC is out of the golf loop.

No surprise Johnny Miller has a strong opinion on it.

That really sucks. Johnny is a dickhead, but he is honest.

Tiger at -2 right now, but this is an interesting take. Left himself 202 from the intermediate rough on 17 and is having to scramble for par. Though he did hit a nice 3rd shot.

Tiger at +1 already looks out of it. Can't get off the tee again, and that rough looks brutal.

Mickelson can't get off the tee either.

No way Furyk can play this way 3 more rounds.

I just heard that todays 71 was tigers best round ever on this course