It never fails to amaze me that Alex Jones has cut himself such a nice ittle whackjob media empire.

He just happened to pop up at the right time, I guess, sort of a conspiracy version of Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, guys who really don't have any qualifications to serve as the voice of anything but were able to build audiences and eventually influence on little more than strength of personality.

one of my favorite conspiracies to read about was Polybius, the arcade game. I started a thread about Urban legends surrounding video games in a different forum. This short thread has more info about Polybius than any other website.

Urban Legends and conspiracies regarding video games

check the last post for links to the best write-ups on Polybius.

The fact that the site is using a pic of the guys from "Reservoir Dogs" as an example of "Men in Black from the Emergency Management Office in diamond formation" is kinda throwing me off...

its a joke because Polybius has been revealed as a hoax.

Ah, thats better... but would I put it past the shadowier elements of our government to tests out some kind of mind control program using something as seemingly innocent as a video game?

Nope.

They don't need video games, the intelligence community already has control over most of the media at a national level and has ample consulting influence in Hollywood with film and movie production. They control the day-to-day narrative to such an unbelievable degree these days. They're even dug in with anti-social media.

the person that claimed he programmed Polybius was in to some creepy shit.
Steven Roach? (WWASPS/Polybius arcade game internet hoaxer) He was running behavior mod prison camps for wayward teens. the WWASPS is being sued into oblivion now. Steven has been arrested in multiple countries for human trafficking.

here is an expose on WWASPS
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Yeah, privately ran facilities like that, for profit prisons and the like... the potential for abuse is huge.

Too little oversight.

Had never heard of this trace case before it was mentioned on yesterday's Paracast. Wonder why it isn't more prominent.

Delphos, KS, 1971: http://www.ufocasebook.com/Kansas.html

What about Elisa Lam? That's some freaky stuff too!

Watched a show a few years back, they went to that ring and it still wont support life, another boulder on the mountain of evidence.

Heres one thats pretty freaky, the Fresno Walkers... watched a show called "Fact or Faked" try to replicate this by various means and couldnt even come close.

High strangeness...

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This might be good...

http://www.patientseventeen.com/Pati...SEVENTEEN.html

The things that guy has pulled from people defy explanation.

The 15 minute clip of him testifying in front of the national press corp at the bottom left of that page is great, he lays it out.

Gonna bring things back into the appropriate thread here...

But, the assertion that folks like Fish aggressively, vehemently state that "there is absolutely nothing that says or proves that something not of earthly origin, yet intelligently controlled has ever been in our sky or on this planet... not ONE shred of evidence, its ALL garbage", is the actual garbage.

When some of the highest ranking military personnel we have come forward saying they touched one, when heads of various nations defense establishments say its real, when countless astro/cosmonauts have attested to its truth, when the scientific advisor of Project Blue Book says it real... then its damn. well. real.

And thats just a very short list.

"Oh but thats just an appeal to authority, oh but wheres the crashed vehicle, oh wheres the captured alien blah blah blah".

First of all, the unimpeachable credibility of literally hundreds of witnesses would be enough to convict anyone of anything... "but that dont count blah blah blah, wheres the proof?" "what a pathetic appeal to authority"... well, appeals to authority are what convict damn near everyone ever convicted of anything. Credible eyewitnesses, expert testimony brought in by the defense and prosecution etc.

So its good enough to send a man to death row, but its not enough to say "hey, this is something real going on" yeah ok :rolleyes:

Secondly, of course the government isnt rolling out what it has for the nation to inspect... are some of you that ****ing dense?

And just because black science man isnt talking about it, sure doesnt mean that extremely credible scientists across the world arent furiously studying the very real phenomenon... particularly government scientists.

I'm going to start posting videos of various experts, people that no one can deny their credentials and also cannot deny their testimony. I've posted stuff on them before only to get the same tired tripe from the same tired posters, but the fact remains they cant deny who the person is and cannot deny their words.

I'll keep posting guys like this, and the usual suspects here can continue to spin their wheels trying to refute them.

Lt. Col. Charles Halt, a man directly responsible for nuclear missiles in Europe during the cold war...

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J. Allen Hynek, one of the premier Blue Book scientists...

"I had started out as an outright debunker, taking great joy in cracking what seems at first to be puzzling cases. I was the arch enemy of those flying saucer groups and enthusiasts who very dearly wanted ufo's to be interplanetary. My own knowledge of those groups came almost entirely from what I heard from Blue Book personnel: they were all crackpots and visionaries. My transformation was gradual but by the late 60's it was complete. Today I wouldnt spend one further moment on the subject of ufo's if I didnt seriously feel that the ufo phenomenon is real and that efforts to investigate it and understand it, and eventually solve it, could have a profound effect -- perhaps even be the springboard to mankinds outlook on the universe.

Why dont astronomers report ufo's? they DO, as Dr. Hynek explains here...

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Part of a paranormal investigation at a virgin location in Northern MO tomorrow night...can't wait, should be good.

We're talking about going to Waverly in the summer...what a dream trip that would be.

What are you investigating?

What its about doesnt matter, please explain the investigation in detail and what, if anything, happened.

So you know full well that you're using a logical fallacy, but gosh darnit in this case it's actually true because you believe!

Keg has been asking why the UFO phenomenon isn't given more respect. Well... this is a big part of it. Because there are so many out there who want so badly to believe, that they readily admit that they'll using logical fallacies as justification, and they simply don't care. They are so caught up in wanting it to be true, that they don't believe any critical thinking needs to be applied in that process.

Scott, there's an important reason why you've posted eyewitness testimonies before, only to get the same tired tripe. It's the same reason why an eyewitness testimony isn't enough to convict someone of a crime in light of no other evidence. Eyewitness testimonies are proven to be one of the most unreliable forms of evidence. There's a reason why we have millions of outrageous eyewitness testimonies, yet still we have zero actual physical evidence despite many decades of video pointed at the sky. That is why you get the reaction you do when you say "Ignore logical fallacies and believe anyway!". I want it to be true as badly as anyone. But I just can't throw critical thinking out the window for it like you do...

I haven't asked why. I've explained why, and then lamented the fact. You are correct that the believers pollute. I've said that over and over. I've also said that the debunkers and people entirely outside the subject are either unwilling to or incapable of separating the believers from the skeptics - by that I mean the true skeptics, and not the debunkers who call themselves skeptics while working the problem in exactly the same way the believers do, just from the antagonistic side.

The problem is that everybody in the field is painted with the same broad brush, and therefore even the serious researchers - who are not the most popular researchers - can never be taken seriously. People think of UFO Reasearch and they equate it with garbage like Ancient Aliens or UFO Hunters or Hangar 1. People think of paranormal or crypto research and they think of crap like Ghost Hunters or Finding Bigfoot. They don't know, or care to know, anything about the real research that's being done. The research that's looking for answers without predisposition.

Of course part of the problem is that much of that research isn't public, like the work being done by Bigelow Aerospace and Jaques Vallee. Or the data collected by Ray Stanford or Ted Phillips or any of a number of other researchers.

And no, that's not saying that I believe proof of some alien cover-up is being hidden. That's simply saying that some of the best, most serious research is not something that any of us can look at online, or something we'll see on H2 or Discovery or the Smithsonian Channel. All we get to see are the entertaining kooks like Richard Hoagland or Georgio Tsoukalos. Because that's entertainment and that's what sells ads.

I don't know what the UFO phenomenon represents. I don't know if it's extraterrestrial or military or something exotic from earth we aren't aware of or a natural phenomenon like weather we don't understand yet or an echo of another reality or something nobody has even thought of yet.

And the only thing I believe is that it's a mystery worth exploring. Exploring seriously and scientifically.

I dont need to "wish it to be true", I've watched one fly by me close enough to halfheartedly toss a rock at and hit it.

Heres the former Canadian Minister of Defense explaining the reality...

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Gordon Cooper admits the reality...

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The former mortician of Roswell, NM knows the truth...

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An air traffic controller spills the beans...

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My own uncle was Lt. Col in the Montana Air Guard during the incident at Malmstrom AFB when ufo's were hovering over nuclear missile silos and systematically shutting them down. He admitted that it was all quite real to my mother years ago.

I have a hard time taking Paul Hellyer seriously. I've never thought much of Glenn Dennis, either. I've always preferred Jessie Marcel, Jr., but he's unfortunately passed away. I think the whole Roswell story is about dead at this point, although they're trying hard to keep it on life support with the "slides" that are finally coming out in May. Not that it wasn't an important story, but it happened so long ago that it's next to impossible that any new, definitive information can come out about it. It's 70 years in the past and basically everyone who could have been involved or a witness is dead. That's the reason I'm more interested in stuff that happened in the 60s or later like the Malmstrom events you referenced or Rendlesham or JAL flight 1628 (with its radar data, so it's not just another witness testimony...).


Neat video from NASA, not really related to anything paranormal, just thought it was fun in general:

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Why not take Hellyer seriously?

Because he's in his 90s and has shown signs of questionable sanity for 25 or 30 years.

I did an edit to my previous post btw, added some other thoughts.

Yeah, the JAL flight has a ton of radar evidence, they were heading into Anchorage AK iirc.

Thats a great case for skeptics to take a look at.

It's not the only one, there's a number of cases with corroborating evidence, but the problem is that everybody gets hung up on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Point being you can't prove what something is by radar data or camera footage. But you can prove it's an actual, physical object confirmed by something other than the naked eye. 'course the trick is actually getting that data in the first place from the FCC (who actually tried to deny that they had evidence of the JAL sighting but got burned) or from the military, who almost never shares anything. I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that Luke Air Force Base had data of whatever object was sighted during the Pheonix Lights incident, but it'll never see the light of day.

There's been some recent analysis of physical trace materials with...unusual results, but all that stuff is in early stages. I think if there's ever proof of anything from off earth, that's the only way it can ever be confirmed, by discovery of some material that isn't native to here.

My take on all of it, but this is a great example to use... is that when 3-4 highly trained pilots say that an aircraft carrier sized craft followed and circled them, at one point nearly hitting them, then I see no reason not to believe them even without radar evidence.

Theres just no possible way, IMO, to mistake something that massive for natural phenomena or other aircraft... it was huge and was clearly a craft of some sort.

Which brings me to the extraterrestrial/extradimensional thing... if there is something the size of an aircraft carrier out there, that is clearly a designed craft that is being intelligently controlled, and we know for sure mankind is incapable of building something even close to it... then what else could it possibly be?

Nature doesnt build aircraft carrier sized aircraft and neither does man.

I don't think we know enough to make any assumptions at this point. You saying "it must be this because I don't believe it can be anything else" isn't any more valid in my opinion than when a debunker says "it can't be that, because my understanding of science says that's just not possible".

It could be literally anything. And we could be talking about several different phenomena that we're all lumping together into one category out of convenience and a lack of understanding. Like maybe some of it's extraterrestrial, and some of it's a natural phenomenon, and some of it's exotic aircraft that decades beyond the stuff we see and can identify, and some of it's...something else.

An idea I've been playing with lately, but haven't fully worked out in my head yet, is what if UAP's (that's what I usually call UFOs...) and ghosts are the same phenemena? What if we're just seeing momentary flashes of another reality? Or what if time isn't linear, just our perception of it, and sometimes something happens that changes our perception? Some kind of disruption due to electromagnetic pollution or something along those lines.

Hell, UAP's are often sighted in the same area/time as bigfoot. What if Bigfoot is something from another time or place or dimension that flashes through into our reality or perception in the same way, and that's why bodies are never found, because it's not something that actually physically lives here?

Even wilder idea: what if there's more than we grasp to human consciousness and we somehow create these phenomena ourselves? Literally create, not just a figment of imagination.

Something I just learned today, apparently Penn is doing real ghost research. Yes, an Ivy league school doing paranormal work, and while it does involve sociology that's not all it is:

Ironically, ghosts are probably one of the things I'm least interested in, along with NDE's, I would guess because I'm an agnostic boardering on atheist who's ambivalent about the concept of an afterlife, but I'm glad to see it nonetheless.

Not paranormal, but apparently Neil Armstrong's widow found a bunch of goodies from the Eagle in a closet: http://www.cnet.com/news/forgotten-a...trongs-closet/


Entirely unrelated, but I heard a caller on some radio show this weekend wax eloquent on how Neil Armstrong was the first man on the moon only so he'd be in position to take photographs of Buzz Aldrin, 33rd degree freemason, as he set foot on the moon and claimed it for the globalists. LMAO

There's a difference between not having enough evidence to convict someone and insisting there was no crime to begin with.

The problem is there's no middle ground. Debunkers insist there's no crime to begin with and believers often insist they know exactly who the culprit is with very little evidence...

Yeah, on one side you have the old thing about absence of evidence not being evidence of absence and on the other you have people who treat the subject like it's religion.

Personally, as far as proving anything goes, while I want to reiterate for about the 12,000th time that I do not support the extraterrestrial hypothesis - because I don't believe there's enough evidence for it, no matter how romantic I think the idea is - I believe that anyone advanced enough to travel here from another....wherever, be it star system or dimension or reality or even period in time, however they manage to do that, would probably be advanced enough to maintain a presence here without leaving any palpable evidence of their existence.

And as I've said before, I think if we did luck out and recover something truly advanced from a civilization other than our own, it would be impossible for us to reverse engineer it. We're talking about something truly "alien" to our understanding. We would have no shared context of any kind with whatever creatures developed it. We may even have evidence of "them" that we don't even recognize as said evidence.

And I also think the idea that it would be impossible for anyone to travel here is narrow-minded. We already believe we're advanced enough to begin theorizing faster than light technology ourselves ("we" meaning NASA, along with other theoretical physicists). Maybe it's decades, maybe it's millennia, but we're going to get there eventually assuming we survive as a species. And while I think the idea of our own SETI searching radio frequencies for other species is a bit silly, the reality is that we've been sending out our own signals for nearly a century. So if anybody does happen to look in that particular spectrum within a small but I think significant and ever expanding number of light years of here, this particular star system is flashing like a beacon. So they'd know exactly where to look.

(Which may or may not be a good thing...)

And that's without even getting into the kind of electromagnetic resonances that 70 years of atomic weapons testing has sent out.

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I've always had a thing w/ Native Americans. I like just about everything about them. They're very trustworthy people and pure - yes the debacle regarding the Redskins and all of that was ridiculous - aside from that - they're very neat.

If I was ever terminal - I'd go to a reservation and seek healing - they've really healed and free'd folks from even cancer. My cousin passed away today - so I'm on a kick; researching all of this stuff and rather emotional. But this Larry Cesspooch is a smart dude - don't let the slow delivery fool you - anyways - I wanted to share this - I hope you guys find it interesting!..

Thanks


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Watched an interview with the two original Bentwaters AFB security personnel that went out to investigate the original sighting... just incredible.

They literally walked the circumference of it and touched it repeatedly, even viewed the senior guys hasty drawings of the heiroglyphics he touched and viewed on its side.

After that, it disappeared through the canopy in about one half of a second, leaving scorched tree's and earth along the way... but yeah, they just "misinterpreted something".

The emotion the senior guy displayed while recounting it was all the tell I need, damn near started crying at the awe he felt... hard to understand some people writing guys like this off as having "misinterpreted something". Both made it very clear that they misinterpreted nothing at all.

And of course lets not mention their commanding officer, Col. Halt... what he later saw and what the ATC's later saw disproves any debunker for all time, they can all get bent.

Man, I'm only an hour into this and just had to say what a great listen it is... NO BS, NO HYPE... its all just the straight skinny on the place.

It captures whats so wild about the entire phenomenon, but especially this ranch, and entire area, in and around Utah's Uinta basin... great great post, SR.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1816875/ros...947-ufo-crash/

Hmmmmm......

That guy Ryan simply refuses to speculate or hype up or divulge things he shouldnt, he came off as extremely credible in my eyes... that guy was reporting the TRUTH.

I've still got about 40 minutes to go and will get to it soon... but he has done the research and knows exactly what he's talking about. If the so called debunkers looked into as much as he obviously has... there would be many changed minds out there.

Or, maybe not... I posted several podcasts from Colm Kelleher here a few years ago and got nothing but derision and yawns, if I got anything at all. "WE WANT REAL SCIENCE" they say, yet give them a real scientist and all they can do is guffaw and make excuses.

Jerm, I'd still love to hear about your paranormal investigation from the other night, it doesnt matter if no evidence was collected, tell us what it was about and how you tried...

Terrifying game.

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Uh it was pretty crazy honestly....a "virgin" (never investigated) location which had a lot of activity. Waiting for everyone to finish their evidence recaps.

I personally witnessed...

- Door flying open
- Footsteps on stairs that cannot be accounted for
- An evil, nasty entity that identified itself through a spirit box, giving us a full first, middle, and last name.
- That entity had a very negative affect on several team members, including myself. It definitely sapped energy from me...gave one of the members crippling stomach pains so bad she had to sit out, other shit.

I've been having odd and bad nightmares since that night too....never happened before. I was scared, can't even lie.

I know a lot of people don't buy into the whole ghosts or haunting phenomena but I urge anyone interested in it to pursue, it's super interesting and a rush.

Didn't I link that paracast episode earlier in the thread? Meant to if I didn't. I think I also gave a url from an even earlier paracast episode on skinwalker with ryan skinner and a guy who purportedly worked security on site. That was I think the episode that introduced me to the location.

Outstanding, sounds like you're part of a very serious group with all of that gear... the spiritbox is of particular interest to me, scanning through however many thousand channels per minute.

So that when you get a coherent message it has to be real because how many jokers out there have the equipment to interrupt a device like that? I've never had an honest to goodness ghost experience, but I dont discount any of it.

I believe in a human soul and also believe in the good and bad realms that watch over those souls... any chance you could post some of that evidence here?

Yeah we come into it from a skeptical approach and try to rule everything out but the paranormal...that way when a piece of evidence presents itself, it's legit if vetted correctly.

The spirit box is awesome...there's something about asking a question and getting a direct, intelligent answer over multiple sweeps. It's crazy.

The group does have a lot of cool, scientificly geared stuff...we don't half ass it lol.

What was the history of this last place you investigated?

Any verifiable strange happenings, deaths etc?

I'm late here - but if you wouldn't mind. Where was this at?

I prefer a sort of an alternative ghost theory, that they're imprints of an event or a moment in time, rather than the traditional spirit related theory. Although much like I think with UFOs they could well be more than one thing. There are some hauntings that seem tied to locations and some tied to specific people, and sometimes phenomena that seem tied to a place attach to an individual and follow them. I've heard some horror stories about people opening themselves up to some dark stuff.

I also wonder how capable we are (we meaning people...) of generating phenomena, and how often what people experience matches what they expect, and how much of what people see reflects their religious or spiritual belief structure.

Speaking personally, I'm an atheist but as someone who was raised in and then outgrew the Catholic church I have kind of an irrational fear of ghosts while at the same time not believing in them, or in non-human spirits. Like the logical side of me says that the stuff western religion teaches is all fear-based social engineering and not real, but the little kid indoctrinated in that same church part of me wants absolutely nothing to do with them anyway.

It's like, while I don't think there's life after death or demons or anything like that, I still don't want to open that door anyway, just in case. No point in tempting fate. So if you want to explore haunted houses and graveyards, or play around with ouija boards, more power to you. Just leave me out of it. LMAO

Did you see that clip on Blue Springs I posted about the UFO sighting which was aired on the local news there a few years back? just youtube UFO Blue Springs Mo. Pretty crazy. Seemed legit actually.

No weird places or ouija boards? oh yeah you're too late, the subject has already hooked you.

I genuinely agree that sooo many of the good ghost stories are really just the leftovers of very emotional events, particularly when there is water or solid stone nearby... somehow, those mediums are better able to absorb and replay some of it.

What always killed me was the "poltergeist", the manifestation of an extreme human emotion that maybe somehow takes on a life of its own. Man, I agree that the human mind is sooo much more powerful than we understand, but that this phenomena is an EXTREME rarity.

This subject kinda ties into one of your ideas on ufo's Keg, that maybe somehow mankind is creating these things (ufo's) out of pure cloth of the mind through some kind of magical subconcious wishful thinking... a delusions so powerful that it creates its own effects and physical objects.

I just dont buy that, the MP's that first explored outside the gates of Bentwaters werent asleep or on drugs or mass halucinating... they walked around the craft, they touched it and marked down its heiroglyphs in their notebooks on the scene... no way their minds melded to make up that simultaneous delusion.

No way that delusion created a tripod style landing gear pattern in the ground, no way that delusion created radioactive residue, no way that delusion created physical charring and scarring on the trees as it shot upward in the blink of an eye, no way that delusion attacked their commanding officer and then hovered over the nuclear weapons bunker.

Courthouse complete with courtroom...offices...etc.

Old jail also on the property that was used up until about 20 years ago.

Employees experience activity regularly, on a daily basis we were told.

Is this the same place that was investigated by Ghost Adventures a year or two ago? The one where the sheriff was shot to death on the front steps?

That kind of stuff's always creeped me out, from a very young age. Not sure why. I know the Catholic thing has had a real impact in some ways - The Exorcist to this day scares me more than about any other horror movie.

Most of this subject is just entertainment for me for that reason: I'm interested in UFOs but the last thing I want is to be abducted. So I'm not going to put myself into that kind of potential situation if I can avoid it.

Ghosts are the same thing for me. I like being creeped out by stories. I don't like being creeped out in real life. So I will never be an investigator.I'm not suggesting they're delusions. I'm suggesting that perhaps some people, or groups of people, perhaps connected to certain locations or some combination of all these elements can result in the very real physical manifestations. Not delusions or shared hallucinations. Real, tangible, physical things.

Or you could take it into the route of certain branches of theoretical physics and say that we don't have a real understanding of reality and consciousness quite yet, and that maybe sometimes we can alter reality. Whatever "reality" is.

Which is not to say that all UFO sightings or all ghost manifestations or all bigfoot sightings are all just that. I think that, just to use UFOs as an example, we may be talking about a variety of different things all happening simultaneously. I think probably 99% of all sightings are just run-of-the-mill stuff. Of that 1% that's truly mysterious, I don't think they're all just one thing. I think extraterrestrial or unknown advanced native technology is a possibility (I have a pet theory about human civilization going much further into the past...). I think human-generated phenomena as we discuss above is a possibility. I think a natural phenomena that we are not yet fully aware of is a possibility. I think some kind of 'trickster' consciousness manifesting these things is a possibility (so many mentions of this cross-culturally around the globe). And there are lots of other possibilities, and it could be any or all of them all happening at once.

Basically I don't think there's any single end-all be-all answer to any of this stuff. It's like a smorgasbord of rare events.

Nah...in a small po dunk area up north.

Yeah...**** that...

I'd say I've had 20 or 30 "strange events" in my life I can't explain.

It doesn't mean that Aliens/Bigfoot/Nessie were there, it means very strange $#it I can't explain happened.

30 is probably an underestimate.

But I didn't decide it was religious/alien/goblins I decided to research this odd stuff and try and find similar events. I read up. I talked to people.

I found that a number of these things could be due to having DSPD and being sleep deprived.

Other things, not so easy to explain.

I'd never even heard of dspd and I probably have it, although my sleep patterns are never constant.

In any case I've never had any kind of weird experience. Or if I have I don't remember it. Strange light in the sky a time or two but never anything extraordinary. Aside from that nothing.

Explain....

its not even scary.

I think about Star Wars all the time and they are making like 6 more movies. Coincidence?

Happy Friday the 13th

I wanna see that! where is it?

damn I love this thread.

this is my shizzle. I grew up in the UP of Michigan and I sat and watched a team of.....whatevers......take a plaster cast of bigfoot. hahahaha! I know I know. but I was like 8 at the time and I just lived in the woods and I thought it was the coolest thing EVER!

you've got some very interesting posts in here....some interesting ideas. one could make an argument that entertaining the idea of ufo's being real while at the same time discounting the possibility that after life, angels and demons could be real as well......one could argue that this seems illogical?

I'll say this....if ghosts are real....I don't think they are human. if they are real I think they want us to believe they are or once were human....but I don't buy it. if there's an afterlife and I could possibly be a ghost someday....I'm not willing to believe I'm gonna be stuck in my dilapidated house man! what a gyp!

as for the ouija board comment....
I've had a very few weird things...scary things happen to me....but only one time have I seen something that shouldn't/couldn't happen....only one time have I seen something like that and there was simply no questioning what I saw. there was no doubt.

I'd went to a friends house to spend the night. I was in the 4th grade. we were in his bedroom and he brought out a ouija board. I'd never seen one nor did I even know what it was or how it is "supposed" to work. he explained that you touch the planchette and ask questions and it will move and answer. bullshit. we touched it...asked a question and it moved. bullshit. you are moving it I told him. after a few attempts I was firmly convinced my friend was ****ing with me. he swore he wasn't so I asked that we put our fingers very very close but do NOT touch the planchette. I don't remember what question we asked....but we were sitting on the top bunk and I was watching his fingers like a hawk....and that sumbitch moved. not a lot...and not far...maybe less than half and inch....but he wasn't touching it and I wasn't touching it and I saw it move. 100% certain...it moved and we weren't touching it. in a split second I went from feeling confident and brave to immediately being filled with fear. I was off the top bunk and into the living room with his parents in seconds. as silly and uneventful as that sounds.....there is no natural explanation for it.

I wouldn't mess around with the damn things. just don't do it.

I never dismissed the possibility.

Stating what my personal beliefs are about anything should never be construed as either an argument for or against what anyone else believes, it's simply a statement about what I at the time (and those beliefs can and do change over time). I'm not trying to convince or convert or dismiss or really to do anything but attempt to understand and verbalize the things that I myself believe.

As far as the afterlife goes, I actually do think it's possible that there is one. I just don't happen to believe in the concept of God as Santa Claus, keeping track of how naughty and nice you are moment-by-moment and sending you to paradise or brimstone based on your marks in the eternal notebook. I don't know if we have a 'soul' in the christian sense. Maybe yes maybe no. I do think it's possible that there's more to human consciousness than what happens between birth and death. Now, whether that can be proven one way or another is another question. Maybe when we die it all fades to black and we're done. Maybe when we die we wake up somewhere else. I have no way of knowing...

Basically just take anything in terms of belief as coming with a caveat that I openly acknowledge that what I believe could be wrong...

And keep in mind that when we're talking about things like religion and what happens after we die we're talking about belief structures that can't really be logical.

I should also clarify that I wasn't as much saying I don't believe non-human spirits or entities can exist. I'm saying I don't believe the Bible is anything more than a collection of stories written by people, I don't think it's representative of any kind of esoteric reality about the universe and I don't believe that the Judeo-Christian interpretation of the paranormal carries any more weight than any other mythology.

In any case, this kind of stuff is hard to express, and people tend to get very defensive about it whichever side of the religious spectrum they land on, which is the main reason I tend to try to keep religion out of the discussion.

well said my good sir.
religion aside...I've viewed shows and read some very intriguing near death experiences.
I've read many suggestions that aliens/ghosts/heaven/hell could simply be glimpses of another dimension.

one of your posts got me thinking about this. what if....when we die and our sight is taken from us....our "eyeball" sight....we are still there in a different form and we see with new eyes in a different way. we see....across dimensions.... we see MORE.

DUN DUN DUN!

So frankotank, you got the info and I assume you've watched that show on Bentwaters by now... what are your thoughts?

For me, everyone involved is incredibly credible, but its the man that was in charge of the airstrip control tower -not just some private- but the guy in charge of it coming right out and saying... "yes, this huge craft came and hovered right in front of the windows of the control tower", that really gets me.

I dont know how anyone could laugh that off, thats a guy used to seeing all manner of flying objects in his work area... he didnt mistake a damn thing, IMO.

Just curious what you thought about it.

I haven't ever seen anyone laugh rendlesham off, at least not aside from debunkers who won't take any case seriously.

However... I don't think Jim Penniston did either himself or the case any favors coming out with that binary code 30 years after the fact. I question anything that comes from regression hypnosis and I question any witness whose story changes over time (Penniston's has changed several times - as I recall his original report does not even include a physical encounter with a craft). That's part of the reason I'm a fan of Travis Walton's encounter: none of their testimony has changed over time. Although with Penniston, I'm not sure that his change in testimony is even his own fault. There's some suspicion that both he and John Burroughs had their minds/memory tampered with during debriefing.

But while I have questions about Penniston, I think the rest of the case is extremely intriguing. In fact I heard the entire Halt recording a week or two ago and it's really interesting. I think Larry Warren, the original whistleblower on the case, is intriguing as well.

It's one of my favorite cases (obviously)...

Rendledsham is 1a for me right before Roswell as far as alien/UFO stories go...incredible story.

I think I heard Nick Redfern tell a wacky story in an old interview when his deadly ufo encounter book came out about how the rendlesham craft was recovered, brought back via navy ship to somewhere on the Texas gulf coast, and while it was being unloaded something happened and it ended up crushing a little old lady.

I'd say I'd look it up but I don't own the book and he's done approximately 8 billion radio appearances.

I've heard Pennistons name and know it well, yet it would seem that most of what I've read about him was long ago when I was just getting serious about researching this subject.

What is his connection to Bentwaters?

And yes, the Walton situation is just another ironclad brick in the wall... all those guys, all those chances to **** up in their testimony over all these years, all of the polygraphs passed etc etc etc.

This is one of those, just like the Bigelow Ranch, situations where I can only say... read the book, Waltons book is a mindblowing piece of truth. For those unwilling or unable to find and read the book, just google it and if that episode of Paranormal Witness doesnt come up, then watch whats available.

Although I did post that entire episode in another thread here a year or two ago... good luck finding it without the search function, though (man, how can we fix that search function problem mods, what do you need?).

The FBI, among many many others, tried to poke holes in their story and FAILED miserably.

John Burroughs and Jim Penniston were the first two sent into the forest to investigate the sighting on the first night. They're the initial two direct witnesses for the entire incident.

The guys were crying in that episode...grown, old men crying about how it affected them. Yeah there was no bullshit there...