Some people around here don’t do context.

Some people around here made a case for Alex Smith and his "hidden touchdowns" too.

Never go full Clay

wallcrawler is giving chris jones the alex smith treatment

Lol, that definitely wasn't me.:)

10 playoff games.

His numbers are what they are.

Where I see a huge regular season player for our team disappear in the post season, others see highest paid defender in the league.

Would the opinion be the same if at 10 games in this year he had his playoff numbers? 0 sacks?

Lmao. Maybe. He's got a couple TEX level groupies so nothings impossible.

What happened to Chris Jones in 2016 and 2017? Was he injured in the playoffs? My brain no longer chooses to remember certain events prior to Mahomes, and this may have gotten erased by mistake.

Alex Smith never came close to taking over a playoff game like my man STONE COLD did in the SUPER BOWL like Jones did in literally the most clutch moments in the 4th quarter of 54.

Some Chiefs fans are addicted to suffering. You hate to see it.

Yeah, but Gunther was the DC for the second best defense (maybe the best defense) this franchise has ever had. Losing because a kicker couldn't make a kick wasn't his fault. If that kicker performed, he would probably be a Super Bowl winning DC too.

I can't stand Spags and his defense. I feel like in SB54 it was individual players that made plays at the end, and it had nothing to do with Spags.

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since spags has chris jones actual endorsement as chiefs DC, sit this one out

:facepalm:

Gunther rode the coattails of a dominant defensive mind and was EXPOSED when he tried to build from the Greg Robinson defense in 2004.

Spags put together a defense from the scraps of sleepy Bob Sutton and delivered with obscure formations and blitz that knocked Jimmy G. ON HIS ASS and shutout the Niners in the 4th quarter when the stakes were highest.

Gunther Cunningham held a 17-0 lead, at home, to a division rival. All they had to do was cruise to the division title. And the home playoff game.

He personally hired Jon Baker because "he ripped his sleeves of in cold weather" during the tryout and Gunther thought that made the difference in hiring Baker over anybody else. He kicked the ****ing ball OOB 3 times in that game including the dagger in OT and cost the Chiefs the division and the playoffs.

I'll never forget shitbag Jon Gruden sprinting onto the field like he'd won the ****ing superbowl.

It was the Gannon-Grbac referendum for me and at Age 7 I couldn't take it and I cried the entire night at my grandparents house.

Looking back it was my blackpill, as it was confirmation that the Chiefs picked wrong and all of the other kids in my class thought I was weird for not liking Grbac.

I am pretty sure Gannon was 13-13 as the Chiefs starter.

Its a myth that he played at or near an MVP level while he was here. He won MVP by dinking and dunking ala Alex Smith.

Should he have started the Denver playoff game? Yes. Was he some great QB while he was here? No.

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He was better than Grbac, which is what killed me to accept at that time.

Still angry about that game. Wasn't Baker the kick-off specialist (not even the regular place-kicker)? I could be mis-remembering that part.

He's up there with Lin...never mind; not going to even type it.

That season, you could get a Big Mac for 11 cents because of Grbac. I actually ate several Grbac Mac's that season, many from a location inside of a Walmart in Overland Park. True Story.

Sutton defenses gave up less than 20 points a game in 4 or his 6 years. He had the:

5th - 19.1 points/gm (tied,)
2nd - 17.6 points/gm
3rd - 17.9 points/gm
7th - 19.4 points/gm
15th - 21.2 points/gm
24th - 26.3 points/gm
ranked scoring defenses.

His last two years were atrocious.

So far, Spags had one season giving up less than 20 points per game.

2019 - 7th - 19.2 points/gm
2020 - 11th - 22.6 points/gm
2021 - 8th - 21.4 points/gm
2022 - 20th - 23.3 points/gm

And in that one season Mahomes led us to the win in SB LIV.

Other than our hate we have for Sutton wasting Patrick's MVP season, there really is no statistical evidence that Spags (with the Chiefs) is better than Sutton.

If Mahomes was our QB in any of Sutton's first 4 years, we would definitely have more Super Bowl rings.

Other than being the DC when Mahomes led the team to a SB, Spags is just as bad as Sutton.

Edit: And if not for a bogus roughing penalty, and dumbass Ford, Sutton would also have a SB ring.





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Oh my god… forgot all about that. Hahahah

So you think offenses played as aggressively when we had Alex Smith as QB as they do when we have Mahomes?

Isn’t it kinda obvious that defensive stats would look worse with a better QB/offensive system?

Teams try to score regardless of who the opposing QB is.

If anything, the fact that Mahomes is our QB helps Spags and his stats, because when teams press they make mistakes, players try to do too much, etc.

I hate Bob Sutton, and I think he should have retired after the loss to Tennessee in the playoffs. But, if Jones doesn't get called for roughing the passer for hitting Brady's shoulder pads, or Ford doesn't line up offsides, Sutton probably has a SB ring as a DC.

If we win SB 53, Sutton returns, and we could have still won SB 54.

My main point though, is that I don't understand the love that Spags gets, because he has not been any better than Sutton. The only difference is he played the Titans in the AFC Championship game instead of Brady.

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Houston, Berry, and Johnson had a lot to with that. To this day those three haven't come close to being replaced. I'd say Nick Bolton is getting there, still growing.

He's a fine DC. Wouldn't say he's top 10, and he does have some frustrating traits (he can be loyal to some reeeeeally shitty players, man) but the guy coaches the shit out of any and all defensive backs, and he's one of the more unpredictable DCs out in the league. He's pretty creative.

I'll say this... be careful for what you wish for. If you want Spags gone, we could do worse. A looooot worse.

Greg Robinsons are way more common than the good ones, and sometimes the coaches we think brilliant are just mediocre guys who need brilliant talent in order to not shit the bed. Put them even on last year's Chiefs defense with douches like Hitchens, business decision Badger, and Niemann, and you'd be begging for a coach like Spags.

Context matters though. Sutton hit his ceiling in '16 he needed to go. Same thing happened to Spags before and will probably happen again. Sometimes coaches just flame out after awhile schemes get figured out, the message no longer resonates, etc.

Hard to argue with a championship, another super bowl, and 4 AFC title games since he was hired. It was the right call

I can't remember the other candidates available at the time, but there wasn't really a consensus "That's the guy!" among the fans. Some fans wanted Rex, and other fans were pretty adamant about staying the hell away from him.

Considering how quickly we wanted to rebuild the defense, a first time DC just wasn't in the cards, either. It would have been a big roll of the dice, and more than likely the guy we brought in wouldn't have the connections to the quality position coaches we brought in.

Plus, at some point... I mean, the coach isn't the one strapping on the goddamn helmet. At some point as long as he's not a bumbling reerun, it's up to the players to just ****ing play.

ChiefFanatic is kind of having his period over nothing.

It's a weird argument for sure. I forget if it was him or someone else I had a debate with about a month ago. They didn't like Spags style because it gives up a bunch of yards. Yards. Who gives a **** about yards? Yards don't beat Mahomes only 7s can. Spags defense does enough to limit those. That's all we need.

Even more importantly, Reid trusts him as the CEO of that side of the ball. We know where Reid spends his time/focus and it's not defense (nor should it be).

When Sutton had that defense, how many of those guys were rookies/FNGs, came from different systems, etc. How many times did Sutton have to rebuild/partially the defense? how did Sutton's D perform when his key players were hurt (Dee Ford/justin Houston/Eric Berry as examples)?

And besides generating sacks, what else did that defense excel at? In the playoffs? Situationally, ever?

Suck off stats if you want. The rest of us know what Sutton's defense was good for.

Look if you're not even gonna respond to the points in the video it's clear you're the one ignoring facts here.

He was also infinitely better than Bono, and had Marty gone to him sooner, we probably win the Indy game.

He was an inch off of Lake Dawson's fingertips from saving the game.

As for Grbac, coaches did things different back then. Starters didn't lose their jobs to injury if they were cleared to play.

I think Belicheat was the first time I saw a starter flat out lose his job to injury, when he kept Brady as the starter and Drew Bledsoe was healthy.

Gannon was on a pretty hot streak while Grbac was out with the collarbone. Should've stuck with Gannon, and then if he faltered, you could put Grbac in there at that point.

I think if Gannon retained that starting job over Grbac, the Chiefs win the Denver game.

LMAO

YES they certainly did!

The fact people still argue for Grbac when we had to burn two of our precious 2nd half timeouts in the 3rd quarter because Grbac was "out of breath" is wild. Grbac wasn't even trusted to throw the ball deep in the first half like it was a preseason game and didn't even have the conditioning to play. That makes his argument dead to rights from the beginning.

What I tell myself is that even a Super Bowl loss to the Packers with Gannon could have created a butterfly effect that kept us from getting Patrick... and given us even more sorrow in our franchise to boot.

I really hope folks weren't bitching about Spags today, given that we gave up 10 points.

Lol, what do you think the odds of that are?

You know 100% people were bitching. We also had 2 turnovers including the muffed punt.

I think they had less than 200 yards net offense.

198 yds.

We were pretty damn dominant on that side of the ball. I guess I'm not sure what there is to bitch about.

that's some shit I remember vividly, when Gannon came in during that game he almost hit Lake Dawson for the winner and it was cold as hell that day. The offense was kinda rolling with Gannon, not putting up anything amazing stat wise but I remember thinking this had to be the year and then marty ****ed it up.

It felt like that game was over when the Chiefs scored their first TD. Turns out it basically was.

I hate Spags, and I really have no complaints today. The only thing that even annoyed me was two plays where Chris Jones, and then Frank Clark, were in coverage on wide receivers 10-15 yards down field.

Normally, this would piss me off, because there is no possible way that either of them can succeed in pass coverage, and Spags always puts players in position to fail. But, I knew that the Rams couldn't score enough to win

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like carl never gets fired in 2008? LMAO

Spags always put players in position to fail?!?!?

unbelievable.

I don't know, man, if an AFC Title inspires Marty to weather the storm in 1998 everything is different if Marty coaches through 2006 (or later, since he was forced out by the Chargers at that time).

Yeah, like putting a 4th round rookie in single coverage on a superstar receiver.

Or putting a 300 pound defensive lineman in pass coverage on a wide receiver that runs a 4.5.

Etc. Etc.

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How can Chris Jones succeed in pass coverage?

Spags knows that Jones cannot cover a wide receiver, so why make Jones cover a wide receiver?

Tonight, we played a QB in his first start, so it didn't matter.

I just cannot understand why people feel like Spags is this great defensive coordinator. I posted the comparison, and Sutton was better overall for the Chiefs.

The difference between Spags and Sutton is Spags has had Mahomes as his QB his entire Chiefs career.

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Pray tell, what was Sutton's record in the playoffs? How well did his defenses play situationally in the biggest moments? How many Sutton-led KC defenses beat Tom Brady?

How to tell us you have no idea what a zone blitz is without saying you don't know what a zone blitz is.

We're not saying he's great. We're saying he's good enough.

Good enough when you have Patrick Mahomes wins you Super Bowls.

Understandez vous, cordon bleu?

Spags is a subpar DC.

Never been a fan. He's rather predictable tbh...at least too much for my liking.

Just my personal opinion...This doesn't mean he's worse/better than Sutton.

IMO you're comparing 2 bowls of shit.

Team needs more (good) pass rush and CB depth.

Jesus, some of you guys are miserable, runny shits.

Yep.

a harsh reality for spags haters this morning

#14 defense
#13 yards per play
#16 scoring

#11 net yards per pass attempt
#5 sacks
#3 pressures

#5 rushing
#14 rushing yards per attempt

Give Mahomes a middle of the pack defense and he will win you a Super Bowl.

I still believe that.

Yup. He’s not Buddy Ryan or Belechick. But he’s also not Sutton or Greg Robinson either. This is a young defense that’s getting better every game. Pretty sure Clark is the “elder statesman” of the defense. They don’t have to be the 2000 Ravens. We have Mahomes. They just can’t be the 2018 Chiefs defense.

I hate Grbac with the searing intensity of a million white-hot suns. It was the Grbitch/Gannon debate that initially sucked me into the old KC Star BB.

To this day, anyone who wanted Grbroad to start over Gannon can go **** themselves.

I'll eat crow as our D has REALLY improved.

Even Clark was getting pressures yesterday, Frank ****ing Clark! That's special.

still have 3 games against the broncos and texans

we gonna be top 10!!!!

I'm wanting to say the big hotness of the time was Kris Richard from Dallas?

His star fell pretty damn fast, though.

Comes into thread

Reads that Spagnuolo is no better than Bob Sutton

Chuckles on his way out

How about those that knew Grbac was going to get his starting job back, knowing there wasn't a damn bit of difference between the results, regardless who was playing QB?

He's recognized by his peers as one of the most unpredictable defensive playcallers in the league.

Again, the man does have faults. He's not an elite DC. But being predictable is not one of them.

spags fault is trusting his dbs too much, and sometimes it burns him

Communication is so key on the back end. I suspect it's universal, but if not, it's definitely the case for Spags scheme.

Because man, when those guys aren't on the same page, the blown coverages are pretty catastrophic. They don't run a system where a miscommunication gives a guy another step or two - they just run uncovered.

It's nice to see him trusting the rookies this year and letting them learn.

i actually love his scheme as a complement to having patrick mahomes

if your corners get toasted bad on a play, patrick is still here to get that back for you

i think it is nigh perfect, he just needs to be slightly less aggressive a few times a game

we have to remember spags is doing wonders with chris jones and not much else on the defensive line, too

What Spags has done starting two rookie corners, a rookie defensive end, a rookie linebacker, with S3, CB3 also being rookies is a ****ing miracle.

Bolton is a second year player, too. Sneed third year.

It's ridiculous, and they're playing well and getting better every week.

You guys have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Our defense has done more than enough to win us the games we ultimately lost in the playoffs. Crazy as it is, it’s really been the offense that has “let us down” under spags’ watch in playoff losses.

Right now we have very well coached players. Spags is an absurdly good DBs coach. Cullen is outstanding with DL. And Daly is better than he gets credit for.

We give up points on defense but it’s the kind of attacking style we want to support a defense that isn’t afraid of our defense giving up big plays.

Do we still like spags? The D was a no-show today. The Cinci offensive line completely dominated us up front.

spags was fine...27 points against that team in their house is acceptable

kelce lost the game

The D was dogshit. They easily could have scored more if not for a dropped TD and passing up a field goal. They also would have scored on their last drive if they needed the points.

Infuriating to allow that 3rd and 11

Sorry, but that's an elite offense, and we have three rookies, sometimes four, in the secondary, and next to nothing at DE.

Spags makes chicken salad most weeks.

Spags wins the game if Kelce doesn't fumble.

The DB had excellent coverage. The call was good. Sometimes, you just get ****ing beat by elite talent.

It's going to be like this with rookies. Accept it and get perspective.

I was really optimistic about our D after the Bills game. That's gone now.

Spagnuolo is a ****ing joke.

**** the 3rd and 11 call.

How about the lack of any pressure all night long on one of the most sacked QBs in the league.

What a fraud this pussy is.

He hasn’t been the reason we’ve lost in the playoffs. This is really our first loss this year where it feels like spags wears it. I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Yep. That was an elite throw. We had pressure coming to Burrow and he was limited to a tight window.

Giving the ball back to him with a tie or a lead was the problem here.