ChiefsPlanet - Chiefs *****The Josh Simmons Thread*****

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*****The Josh Simmons Thread***** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=357948)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 18043229)

I don't disagree, but maybe when you have to pick 30 plus every year, this is the dice roll you have to take.

Do ya?

I mean, I used this analogy in the other thread, but do you need to take a HR swing when you're down by 1 with 2 runners in scoring position?

We signed Moore. We just went to the Super Bowl.

This isn't a '2 out, nobody on, down 1 with the bottom of the order due up' situation here.

I just don't think there's a good argument to make that we NEED to be swinging for the downs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 18043248)

From what I was told by the PhD PT who is married to my old roommate/
colleague, and some of what I've read (think DJ dug up something in the draft forum that spoke to this), the biggest issues with the patellar tendon repair is getting the tendon to be "just right" when it comes to tightness. Make it too loose and the tendon doesn't function properly and transfer power. Make it too tight and the tendon doesn't function properly, limiting mobility, range of motion, flexibility, etc.

I was already out when old roomie and I had our usual pre-draft call. What her husband told me shifted me even more firmly that way.

Maybe in their evaluation they were able to see that they got it "just right". Yes, I'm going to choose to believe that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 18043246)

I asked Grok on NBA recoveries.

NBA Players with Patella-Related Surgery

Ya done ****ed up. I did that with El Travador and got pounded for years for it. I know, it's there but it's different shock to different joints.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 18043247)

I think a sizeable number of us are looking at Taylor going as a good thing.

Agreed, which is all the more reason to take this chance and add tackle depth.

Does anyone really think the Chiefs didn't do their due diligence regarding the injury?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 18043246)

I asked Grok on NBA recoveries.

NBA Players with Patella-Related Surgery
Kyrie Irving
Injury: Patellar fracture

Details: Suffered a left patellar fracture during the 2015 NBA Finals. Underwent surgery to implant screws. In 2018, he required additional surgery to remove the screws due to an infection at the site. Missed the end of the 2017-18 season.

Recovery: Returned to play, appearing in 50 games in the 2024-25 season before a torn ACL in 2025 ended his season.

Blake Griffin
Injury: Broken kneecap (patellar stress fracture)

Details: Suffered a broken kneecap during the preseason of his rookie year (2009) with the Los Angeles Clippers after coming down from a dunk. Required surgery, causing him to miss his entire rookie season. Later had arthroscopic surgery to address swelling in the same knee.

Recovery: Returned for the 2010-11 season, became a perennial All-Star, and powered the Clippers to playoff contention.

Andre Roberson
Injury: Ruptured left patellar tendon

Details: Suffered a ruptured left patellar tendon on January 27, 2018, with the Oklahoma City Thunder. Underwent surgery, followed by two additional procedures (one to clean out scar tissue and another to remove an irritating suture).

Recovery: Missed significant time, with a recovery timeline of at least six months for sports resumption. His return was uncertain, and he did not regain his prior level of play.

Jeremy Lin
Injury: Ruptured right patellar tendon

Details: Suffered a ruptured right patellar tendon in the 2017-18 season opener with the Brooklyn Nets. Underwent surgery the day after the injury. Expected to miss the entire season.

Recovery: Was traded to the Atlanta Hawks in 2018 and reported being ready for training camp, with videos showing him back on the court shooting and running.

Dino Radja
Injury: Left patella fracture

Details: Required surgery on a left patella fracture in January 1997 while with the Boston Celtics. Missed the remainder of the season.

Recovery: Did not return to the NBA the following season (1997-98), marking the end of his NBA career, though he continued playing internationally.

Antonio McDyess
Injury: Ruptured patellar tendon

Details: Suffered a ruptured patellar tendon 10 games into the 2001-02 season with the Denver Nuggets. Underwent surgery, missing nearly two seasons.

Recovery: Returned but never regained his pre-injury form, averaging 7.8 points per game post-injury compared to 17.6 pre-injury.

Randy Foye
Injury: Stress reaction/fracture in left patella

Details: Diagnosed with a stress reaction in the left patella in November 2007 while with the Minnesota Timberwolves. Did not explicitly require surgery, but the injury is noted as a stress fracture, which may have involved surgical intervention in some cases.

Recovery: Returned to play, remaining active as a rotation player, though his statistics never fully recovered to pre-injury levels.

Unnamed Player (2005-06 Season)
Injury: Torn right patellar tendon

Details: Underwent surgery in January 2006 after injuring the right patellar tendon just before the end of 2005. Had prior left knee tendinitis a decade earlier (1995-96 season with the Raptors).

Recovery: Missed the remainder of the season. No further details on identity or return-to-play status.

Unnamed Player (2006-07 Season)
Injury: Right patella fracture

Details: Suffered a right patella fracture in November after 20 games. Attempted to heal without surgery but required surgery in February 2006 to insert screws, missing the rest of the season.

Recovery: Returned for the 2006-07 season, playing all but one regular-season game, and played all 82 games in 2007-08, though with slightly reduced stats due to fewer minutes.

Unnamed Player (Chondromalacia Patella)
Injury: Chondromalacia patella (roughening under kneecap)

Details: Underwent surgery on the left knee at the end of October to repair chondromalacia patella, described as similar to a bone chip. Missed four months.

Recovery: Did not play in the 1996-97 season but appeared in 45 games for the Lakers in 1997-98, the most in his short NBA career.

Notes
Patellar Tendon Tears vs. Patella Fractures: The list includes both patellar tendon ruptures (e.g., Lin, Roberson, McDyess) and patella fractures (e.g., Irving, Griffin, Radja). Tendon tears often have poorer return-to-play outcomes, with studies showing only 75% of NBA players returning to play after patellar tendon surgery, often at reduced performance levels.

Recovery Variability: Recovery times vary significantly. For example, Blake Griffin missed a full season but returned as an All-Star, while Antonio McDyess never regained his prior form. Patellar tendon repairs typically require 6-12 months of recovery, with risks of long-term weakness or re-tear.

Data Limitations: The sources do not always specify the exact nature of the surgery or the player’s identity, especially for older injuries. Some players (e.g., Randy Foye) are listed with stress reactions/fractures that may not have required surgery, but they are included due to their relevance to patella injuries. Additionally, microfracture surgeries (e.g., Greg Oden) or other knee procedures are not included unless explicitly tied to the patella.

That's a pretty rough list.

Roberson, Lin and Victor Oladipo are tear guys whose NBA careers ended after it. Lin is kicking around a southeast asian league now, I think.

I didn't realize that was the knee injury that hit McDyss, but that is more evidence of how serious and difficult it is to return from this injury with the same level of leg power and explosiveness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 18043247)

I think a sizeable number of us are looking at Taylor going as a good thing.

And the sooner the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 18043255)

Maybe in their evaluation they were able to see that they got it "just right". Yes, I'm going to choose to believe that.

That's the hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 18043248)

I was reading about it a few weeks back on webMD or something and they mentioned a condition where it just flares up with swelling and pain periodically which happens to "almost everyone." I don't remember the name of it but basically it was a given - this injury gives you this condition and you just have to go easy on it. Perhaps it's like gout or something, I don't know, but it was basically a given.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrobProng (Post 18043259)

Does anyone really think the Chiefs didn't do their due diligence regarding the injury?

Predicting the future is difficult whether or not you did your due diligence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 18043254)

It doesn't feel like the Chiefs are basing their draft on best player available. Hell in Veach's press conference he has already said he plans to draft multiple d-linemen on Day 2. They are targeting positions and specific players and locking on.

Now the one place I'm somewhat okay doing that is left tackle. But how about we let the second round play out before we declare we're taking multiple d-line Friday night?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrobProng (Post 18043259)

Does anyone really think the Chiefs didn't do their due diligence regarding the injury?

I believe they did all the diligence that is possible at this point.

Like I said earlier, if all he has been cleared to do, really, is squat up to 225 pounds, you're not measuring yet if the leg has returned to the full strength and form that it had before the injury. You can't be.

Maybe they did some additional tests beyond that leaked thing about his squats from Wednesday. I'd feel a lot better if we start hearing some of that now that the pick is locked in. I don't think we have yet, but hey, it's only been like 14 hours since the pick was made.

Maybe Matt Derrick will be courageous enough to dig into that as much as the Chiefs will let him. He's probably the best guy for the job, considering he has torn both patellar tendons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 18043264)

Yeah. Any time you mess with a knee capsule, chronic flare-ups and pain become problems. Mrs. Idaho had a meniscus repair earlier this year and had some arthritis in the kneecap part of the capsule. Doc said that chronic flare-ups/aches were going to just be a part of her life (until it gets to a point she needs a replacement).

You could tell at this point if any arthritis has already developed from the surgery to fix it, so the fact they cleared him makes me believe that is NOT the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 18043262)

That's the hope.

And the basis for our 1st round pick.

The good news is this pick could be a disaster but he's so good in the later rounds it may not matter. Our scouting dept is big dick Inc. and it seems like every late gamble we take pays off.

We've already won two SB's with shit tackles so there's at least a sample size for that argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu (Post 18043255)

Maybe in their evaluation they were able to see that they got it "just right". Yes, I'm going to choose to believe that.

I think that's the issue.

I won't speak for Duncan here, but he said that riiiiiiight around the time the "He's squatting 225 lbs" thing came out.

Which, for me, says they CAN'T know that. They can't see that. Because you can't until that ligament really gets taxed and really starts to carry a legitimate load. When it's starting to really have to drive. Or cut WHILE under load.

I - not Duncan or Crow or Burkholder or anyone else - cannot see how that question can POSSIBLY be answered when he's squatting about half what you'd expect from a high level college offensive lineman. That means it just way too early.

And Duncan can actually attest to this -- I disagreed with HIM in PMs about exactly how much risk Simmons carries. I'm absolutely willing to listen to someone explain how they can possibly have this level of insight when it comes to a dexterity and blood flow issue in a replaced ligament. When, by his own admission, Simmons isn't able to actually tax that ligament.

Can he do it under lighter load by higher reps? Shit, can he get on a recumbent bike, turn the tension up and put in 5 miles to provide some rough rough approximation of what load would be and then examine it?

Find me THAT. But I think a prima facia case here has absolutely been made to put the ball back in the other court. There's a LOT of evidence out there that this isn't a surgery that guys come back from with any regularity at all. So please, do explain to me why Simmons will be the exception to that.