So let's say he was carried by his defense this playoff run?

Mahomes stats from his 'carried by defense' year is better than Joe Burrow's best post-season run ending in a Super Bowl loss. :shrug:

I’m glad to see it! Patrick did not get this type of help in earlier seasons.

That said, Mahomes this year had a very strong 87/100 Playoff QBR grade. The MVP Lamar Jackson had a regular season 65/100 QBR. Last year Mahomes won MVP with a 79/100 QBR and followed it up with 84/100 QBR in the Playoffs.

Joe Burrow’s QBR was graded 51/100 and 54/100 for Cincy’s playoff runs following the 2021 and 2022 seasons.

Arguable. Mahomes had less yards, less ypa, 1% better on comp% and 1 more td pass on 7 more attempts. He was also sacked 5 times to Burrow's 19. And all that was with 1 more quarter of play for Mahomes.

WHY WON'T YOU GO AWAY?

How about rushing plays? Mahomes has done some pretty critical stuff with his legs on 3rd and 4th down in the Playoffs this season.

Lahmurrr is Most Valuable Poseur. Burrow's tQBR is lower because he takes more sacks. More sacks = less opportunity to make plays outside the pocket or run for + yards. He's also willing to take more sacks on 3rd down which is a big hit to tQBR.

Since no one else seems to notice this, or realize this is part of the issue, Mahomes takes a predominantly 5 step (sometimes even 7 or 9) drop out of the shotgun. Burrow takes a 3 step drop, with very few (mostly go routes down the sideline) 5 step drops from the shotgun and he's mostly static there, while Mahomes also drifts on his drops from time to time. A 3 step drop keeps Burrow closer to the line, making it harder to escape pressure (obviously) and his line has been average at best on a good day. That's just the design of each offense and it's why i don't bother with tQBR with Burrow.

Pay me. Gimme that bag like Sneed wants and i'm out!

Ahhhh. The ole Lamar argument...


Kidding. Mahomes is clearly better than Burrow at that and does it a lot more.

It’s not just sacks. It’s also rushing plays that factor into QBR. That’s why Lamar had a 83/100 QBR in 2019 regular season. Lamar’s rushing in that 2019 season was incredible.

Mahomes is sneaky good as a runner. It seems like when he takes off, it’s almost always a first down conversion and usually in a big moment on 3rd or 4th down. He had two big time runs on 3rd and 4th down in the Miami playoff game. Two big time runs on 3rd and 4th down in Overtime of the Super Bowl against the Niners. In the 2023 regular season, they graded Mahomes ahead of Lamar & Justin Fields in the rushing portion of the QBR metric.

That's what i was saying earlier. He'll sit in the pocket longer, looking for a play down field and end up getting sacked rather than taking off like Lamar and Mahomes do. The sacks end up taking running out of the equation, hurting his overall QBR.

At that? He's better than Glass Joe at everything. 3 rings to zero. 2 League MVPs to zero. 3 SB MVP's to zero. Less talent and wins more.

I get why Bengals fans want to try propping up Burrow. After all they are stuck with their own version of playoffs Alex Smith. But they might have better luck arguing with Bills or Ravens fans about things he does better if they actually want any chance of being right.

In his 2 full seasons healthy, Burrow has beaten Mahomes in Arrowhead in one AFCCG and went to the wire in the other, with a lesser organization across the board. He's widely regarded as the 2nd best QB in the league and the only guy that doesn't get the yips when he's staring the Chiefs in the face. You don't want to see Burrow healthy in the playoffs and you know it because he's coming to your gun fight with a knife and he doesn't give a shit.

Wait...too soon?

Mahomes -2023 (4 games)- 104/149 69.8% 1,051 yards 7.1 ypa 6 TD's 1 INT QB Rating 100.3 23 runs 141 yards 9 1st downs.

Burrow - 2021 (4 games)- 97/142 68.3% 1,105 yards 7.8 ypa 5 TD's 2 INT's QB Rating 97.3 15 runs 70 yards 6 1st downs.

Look pretty similar overall, except Pat's legs were a bit more valuable to his team. And he ended his season with a Super Bowl win directing a GWD in OT to win it, while Joe came up short on his GWD attempt. So . . . . . . .

And this was the year Pat was 'carried by his defense'. :shrug:

Burrow is no slouch running the ball. Sneaky good, kind of similar to Mahomes in that regard. Both of them are way better at it than people realize. I personally consider Mahomes the best scrambling QB ever because of the critical moments in the Playoffs where his legs have directly helped his team win 15 Playoff games the last 6 years. Can't really say that for Lamar, Michael Vick, and a million other very talented rushing QB's who simply did not have the Playoff stage as often as Patrick.

I don't know what the numbers mean in the rushing portion of QBR metric, but clearly anyone above 10 points in this rushing metric seems to be a pretty good running QB. Anyone who is close to 0 points or even negative points (Jimmy G, Jared Goff, Tom Brady) is a statue in the pocket.

2022 QBR rushing metric:

1. Justin Fields 46.5
2. Josh Allen 43.9
3. Jalen Hurts 38.7
4. Daniel Jones 26.8
5. Patrick Mahomes 24.9
6. Lamar Jackson 22.2
7. Kyler Murray 19.2
8. Joe Burrow 13.3
29. Jimmy G -2.0
30. Tom Brady -3.4
31. Jared Goff -3.9


Your boy Joe looks pretty damn good in this 2022 list. He looked pretty good in the 2021 list as well at 8th in rushing efficiency. So he's #8 in both years, despite people not thinking of him as a runner. Pretty damn good!

Now in 2023 it looks like the defenses clamped down on rushing QB's to an extent. Mahomes was pretty similar in both years above 20 points, but the guys at the top end dropped off a lot from 2022. Last year we had 3 guys above 38 points in this metric, whereas in 2023 only one guy was even above 25 points.

2023 QBR rushing metric:

1. Josh Allen 31.2
2. Josh Dobbs 22.0
3. Patrick Mahomes 21.6
4. Lamar Jackson 19.8
5. Justin Fields 19.6
6. Bryce Young 18.3
7. Jalen Hurts 16.4
8. Sam Howell 14.6
28. Jared Goff -2.0
29. Derek Carr -5.1
30. Tua Tago -7.0

Jalen Hurts dropped from 38.7 to 16.4. That's something to watch moving forward with him and the Philly offense. Tua is dead last with a -7.0 grade as a runner. Kind of shocking, lol

Only a dumbass would argue with this post.




https://media.tenor.com/C_8AqQx3QlcA...david-rose.gif

Josh Allen has done a pretty dang good job against the Chiefs in Playoff games. I think a key difference is that Lou Anarumo is a much better DC than Sean McDermott & Leslie Frazier. Buffalo cannot seem to figure out a way to slow down Mahomes in the Playoffs, whereas Cincy's defense has done a very good job of it. So we end up with high scoring shootout games between KC & Buffalo, compared to very close lower scoring games with KC & Cincy. Either way it's a pretty good battle between the Chiefs and these other 2 teams every year.

Now I'm curious to see what happens with some of the other AFC teams. CJ Stroud is only 22 years old and has shown big time potential. Houston will load that roster around him as much as possible while he's still on the cheap rookie contract for at least the next 4 years. Jim Harbaugh is bound to make the Chargers a better team than they were with Brandon Staley. Steelers & Browns are dangerous if they can figure out the QB position. Obviously the Ravens have a good coach, very good QB, and very good roster in general. I'm not sure if Miami can ever do anything in the Playoffs unless they have the #1 seed to guarantee warm weather games.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2f0b4d3157.jpg


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A lot of smack talk for a team that was last place in their division with Burrow. They won’t be winning their division next year, and will ultimately fail like every team in the shit sucking state of ohio always does.

That gals fan would never eat that. That dog doesn't have diarrhea cinnamon alpo chili on it.

You do know what the expression bringing a knife to a gunfight means right?! I mean, the analogy is very appropriate, but I’m just curious if you actually realize why that is.

Mahomes avoids sacks. You should have learned that from obj. Especially during 19 to 22.

How is having 3 number 1 wrs a good te and rb a knife to a gun fight?

Mahomes on your team wins a championship. Does burrow make the playoffs leading our squad?

Reid got Alex Smith and way worst to the playoffs consistently so he could drag Burrow. But once Burrow shrinks into Alex Smith playoff mode in the playoffs like he enjoys doing then our season ends in the divisional round at best this year.

Burrow wasn’t healthy in last year’s AFC Championship Game… that the Chiefs won?

Mahomes beat the Bungholes on one leg that game with Practice Squad WR’s.

Yes. What i was saying was, Burrow is coming in with less, but he doesn't give a shit because he believes he's enough to overcome it all.

Healthy and the playoffs wasn't meant to imply that he wasn't in '21 or '22.

Gotta get through you own division first and Joe needs to stop being in the injury report. Mahomes 6 champ games in a row is historic. His playoff records is historic. His percentage of winning down by 10 or more is historic. His MVP this soon is historic. His rings this soon is historic. Joe has done nothing historic.

Burrow doesn’t even have a historic run differential to point to!

If Glass Joe is so great then trade Chase for a haul of picks like we did Hill and draft defense. They won't because they know Joe isn't a difference maker. They will spend way too much on offense and the defense will be shit.

I'll send you $20 to **** off.

He should focus on catching Boomer or Ken Anderson's accomplishments first. :LOL:

It's a good analogy. Supremely confident knife wielders have as much success in gun fights as Burrow has in important games.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Patrick Mahomes plays better than anyone<br><br>✅ in the playoffs<br>✅ playing from behind <br>✅ in the clutch<br>✅ on 3rd or 4th down<br><br>Flat out, he delivers when you need him to, better than anyone in the history of the game. <a href="https://t.co/FqcTZcmeSV">pic.twitter.com/FqcTZcmeSV</a></p>&mdash; coop (@LocalLegendCoop) <a href="https://twitter.com/LocalLegendCoop/status/1758601747436589174?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The highest-graded QB throughout the 2023 playoffs 💥 <a href="https://t.co/oXcsnCeYXB">pic.twitter.com/oXcsnCeYXB</a></p>&mdash; PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Chiefs/status/1757862809352724490?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most playoff games with a 90+ QBR since 2006 (how many came in a title game)<br><br>1. Patrick Mahomes - 7 (3)<br>2. Josh Allen - 3 (0)<br>2. Peyton Manning - 3 (1)<br>2. Tom Brady - 3 (0)<br>5. Colin Kaepernick - 2 (1)<br>5. Kurt Warner - 2 (1)<br>5. Russell Wilson - 2 (1)<br>5. Drew Brees - 2 (0)</p>&mdash; Scott Kacsmar (@ScottKacsmar) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScottKacsmar/status/1759291206398304306?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 18, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

According to next gen stats, last year’s Chiefs team was the 19th best KC team of all time. Yet we won SB. This year’s team was the 28th best team. So there have been 27 KC Chiefs team since 1960 that were statistically better overall. Yet we won the SB. Why? We have the best QB in the NFL and it isn’t close.

You can say you’d rather have Burrow. Hell, you might even convince yourself that you believe it. But 31 GMs and 31 coaches in the NFL would take Patrick Mahomes over what they have now. It’s not even close.

Another interesting statistic: in the last 50 years, 26 QBs have lost their first trip to the SB, including Burrow. Guess how many went on to ever win the SB? 1. John Elway. No other QB has gone on to win the SB after losing their first time.

You also have only 2 more years under the 5 year rule. Josh Allen is already outside the 5 year rule window. Be interesting to see whether Burrow can validate that rule or prove the exception. He first has to stay healthy enough though. And so far he has not done a great job of staying healthy.

Great players aren’t great all the time, they’re great just when they have to be.

Change the hypothetical to either Patrick Mahomes or the best QB your franchise ever had. How many would take Mahomes? The number that do not choose Mahomes has to be extremely small.

By what metrics? Cmon there weren't 18 ****ing Chiefs teams better than last year's squad. People need to stop with the useless stats.

Mahomes' teams expect to win, Burrow's breed arrogance

Top right Mahomes.

There's a FYP in there but i'm gonna refrain this time.

Well, i've never said that. He's who we have. Anyone that would say that isn't being honest. Or, in their mind they're honest when actually they're kinda dumb.

Also, this is the last year under the 5 year rule.

"Useless stats". I know how you're never wrong and all that... :)

but

It's possible to have previous teams be better by combined offense and defensive rankings, or maybe even by metrics like efficiency and epa, without having the best QB and still be considered a "better team".

Inquiring minds want to know.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2r3Xs9sBEVg?si=HmfxJVUoGod_ZL4T" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Zip it spanky. My metrics also say Burrow never wins a title ROFL

They have the Twenty Ten Cassel Chiefs over this years team for ****s sake ROFL

The Chiefs have seventeen 11+ win seasons ever and 30 winning seasons.... so a 14-win SB team being rated two spots lower than all 11+ win teams, and this year's team being 28th of 30 winning seasons as an 11 win team is pretty unbelievable. And not "omg, that's unbelievable!" ...but literally not believable.

I think a big part of it is how they treat the regular season these days.... they were obviously a far better team this season once they stopped rotating 8 receivers and CEH started getting fewer touches (among other things), and even after that they rarely blow out teams and routinely shut it down.

Similar to all the chest thumping that rival fans do around here every postseason for being point differential champs and so forth... so many of those stats don't mean shit. And many of those Chiefs teams of the past were in the same shoes, wanting to prove themselves, fighting for their playoff lives, etc... which is apples and oranges compared to these Andy Reid and Mahomes teams.

I'm hip. A lot of this kind of stuff has to do with someone being bored and crunching numbers to make a "new" point. I didn't look at this particular set at all so i have no idea, other than what you told me, how valid it is.

A lot of it comes down to the analytics generation. Take a previous team, compute their epa, compare them to today's team. If the raw numbers are better, the team was "better". Ultimate results don't really factor in a lot of the time.

I got those stats from one of The Athletic's football shows. I think it was last Friday's show with Mike Sando and Randy Mueller, two guys who generally know what they're talking about. Both of them were marvelling at how KC could still win the SB when historically speaking, the last two years have not been close to their "best" teams. But then, KC's "best" teams didn't have Patrick Mahomes. I don't know how they were calculated.

Even if this year's team was better than the 28th spot, the point still stands that KC has had much better teams than this year's team, QB position aside.

The Athletic is pure ****ing garbage and these metrics are proof those guys are half wits.

In ZERO world are these the 19th and 28th best teams in team history. This roster is ****ing loaded and last year we had the number 1 offense...this year the best defense

I remember seeing it elsewhere and it mentioned based on SoS and a couple other things.

I googled for it and found this gem from 2012 though... man, some people were delusional back then.
https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=259079

28th matches pro football reference's Simple Rating System which is just point differential and strengths of schedule.

Yep, that was it... so, basically a team is amazing if they run up the score on shit teams. See: Bills, Dolphins, Cowboys.

rfaulk, did you make this?

https://scontent.fmkc1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...7w&oe=65DE7102

No but i want to shake the hand of the person that did.

LMAO

Picture is a big fat fail. Those two are not the ones on the filed.

Oh yeah? What's all that grass and white line stuff behind them?

Bungholes fans…

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Say hello to the new punter of the Cincinnati Bengals😌 <a href="https://t.co/MKEQPjD5E9">pic.twitter.com/MKEQPjD5E9</a></p>&mdash; Sammy (@sammy______G) <a href="https://twitter.com/sammy______G/status/1760785077628293310?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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With that limp dick they have playing QB, they’re gonna need a good punter.

Tee Higgins franchise tagged

Grasping….gasping…

That's fine. Break the bank signing a punter represented by Rosenhaus.

https://hypotheticalsyllogisms.files...02/winning.jpg

can you tell me why the players talk trash on the Chiefs? Trying a psych job or something? Since it didn’t work last time, why do they continue to do it?

Is it like the San Fran defenders on the sideline of the SN trying to convince themselves that Mahomes is just a regular QB? Trying to psych up the team?

Hope they keep him and therefore get nothing for him

BURROWHEAD: Bengals talking a lot of sh1ttttt
 

Have to prop up Jump Ball Joe for one more season. Though he still seems like a likely tag and trade candidate.

Mike Hilton is just a jokester guy. I can't imagine he meant it as anything more than good fun. Eli Apple is just an angry man and Ja'Marr dgaf. He just says whatever is on his mind.

I haven't looked and i could be missing something but i don't know of anyone but Ja'marr saying anything since the last AFCCG.

Brought knife to gunfight. Lost. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e388769b9d.jpg

I suppose that Marvel took a lot of creative license in their films because I don’t recall Thanos being made of glass. I guess that would have made him much less of a threat. This image conveys that message perfectly.

The refections off Mahomes' Super Bowl rings in February. Will be warmer than Cancun in February

When they give Chase the moon I a few months Higgins is gonna be a salty bitch in the locker room.

They know they have only 1 more chsnce to beat KC

They are terrified he could go to Chiefs or another rival

Franchise Higgins got Teebagged!

So he is Tee Baggins

He's Tee Baggins Chiefs defenders all the time.