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mnchiefsguy 10-21-2011 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033545)
OK, first of all, I never argued this "KU town" thing, so don't place that in my mouth. Second of all, it isn't about whether or not there are enough KU fans to make the tournament successful (they're absolutely are). The matter is putting conference dollars in a non conference state. That's just bad business, no other conference does that. KC would have to make some enticing offer above the ability to sell the tournament out and its just sad Mizzou has put their own city in that position.
They are costing Kansas money too. Lots of people stay and do things on the Kansas side of the line while the Big XII tourney is in town.

The BIG XII contract with Sprint runs through 2014. If the tourney continues to outperform OKC and Dallas without Mizzou when that contract expires...I can see the Big XII keeping KC in its tournament rotation. If the tourney crashes and burns without Mizzou in it, then it should leave town anyway.

The ACC holds its basketball tourney in Atlanta sometimes. Georgia Tech is an ACC member, but they are far and away the red headed stepchild in that state. Georgia and the SEC dominate that landscape, but Atlanta does the basketball tourney well and stays in their rotation.

At the end of the day it is about buts in the seats. If KC continues to put more buts in the seats than OKC or Dallas, which it consistently has, then I think KC will be able to keep its place in the tourney rotation. Will KC have to work harder than those cities? Yes, because they will have to keep their attendance up and ahead of those cities to keep their spot, but it is doable.

Pitt Gorilla 10-21-2011 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033479)
How can you say that? For the greatest majority of its existence, it has been a conference game. Most of the truly outstanding rivalries are conference games. Even the OU-Texas rivalry skyrocketed in animosity once it became a conference game.

Like I said, the game, if at Arrowhead, would always be in Missouri. That means the monetary benefits derivative thereof, would also largely go to Missouri. So, if KC really wants to see that game continue even as a non conference affair, it should pay KU more to even out the revenue streams. I mean, if MU is that clear about it, they shouldn't care KU gets paid more for it if that's what it tales to continue it.
Yeah, Nebraska/OU really sucked prior to them joining the same conference. Florida/FSU, Iowa/ISU, Notre Dame/Michigan, Clemson/South Carolina, Army/Navy, etc. all stink as rivalries as well.

mnchiefsguy 10-21-2011 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033607)
Of course, the whole argument is why would KU continuously put money into a non Big XII state? Its Missouri's market. We're not talking about having this game on each other's campus, right? We're talking about KC, MO and Arrowhead. Mizzou is the STATE school of Missouri.
Because KU does not want to cede the KC market to Mizzou. Because if KU can show demographically that it is at least an equal to Mizzou in the metro area, the Big XII can claim some of the TV sets in the KC market when it negotiates TV deals. Georgia Tech trails Georgia in the whole state of Georgia, but I guarantee the ACC claims the Atlanta market when they present their demographics to the networks.

You are the only one who claims KC is an exclusive MU market. Even the MU fans on here acknowledge that KU is strong in the metro area. Folks are letting a line on a map color their logic when viewing this.

HolyHandgernade 10-21-2011 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 8033554)
The bolded part is not true if you are referring to Mizzou. You could argue that it would be true to the state of Missouri itself, but Mizzou would see no more benefit than KU money wise in terms of payout. KU would actual benefit more, since more Mizzou fans buy tickets to Arrowhead anyway...so a 50-50 split of revenue would favor KU since they are filling less than 40% of the seats.
According to the KC pleading, the Border War generates 14 million dollars for the KC area. Taxes from those revenues are collected by the state of Missouri which in turn, helps fund the University of Missouri. Guess where those revenue don't partially return? That's right, to KU. So, like I said, if KC wants to pony up to keep that 14 million revenue stream going, it needs to pay the Jayhawks more to do so.

Al Bundy 10-21-2011 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033751)
According to the KC pleading, the Border War generates 14 million dollars for the KC area. Taxes from those revenues are collected by the state of Missouri which in turn, helps fund the University of Missouri. Guess where those revenue don't partially return? That's right, to KU. So, like I said, if KC wants to pony up to keep that 14 million revenue stream going, it needs to pay the Jayhawks more to do so.
That will hurt the Overland Park side of the State line as well. But I do hope that Jayhawk fans enjoy giving all of their money to the states of Texas and Oklahoma. That is where everything is headed.

HolyHandgernade 10-21-2011 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 8033733)
Because KU does not want to cede the KC market to Mizzou. Because if KU can show demographically that it is at least an equal to Mizzou in the metro area, the Big XII can claim some of the TV sets in the KC market when it negotiates TV deals. Georgia Tech trails Georgia in the whole state of Georgia, but I guarantee the ACC claims the Atlanta market when they present their demographics to the networks.

You are the only one who claims KC is an exclusive MU market. Even the MU fans on here acknowledge that KU is strong in the metro area. Folks are letting a line on a map color their logic when viewing this.
Are you kidding? Look, KU generates most of its revenue and fame from basketball. KU fans are going to watch KU basketball whether its played in KC or not. We don't have to prove that, we already know it. Tech is an Atlanta based school within the larger state of GA. That's not the dynamic at play here.

And quit twisting my words around, I never said "KC is an exclusive MU market". I said KC, MO is threatening to become a non Big XII state. It doesn't mean they're aren't KU fans on the Missouri side or MU fans on the Kansas side. It simply means revenues generated in the state of Missouri don't flow back into Kansas. If the Sprint Center was in Johnson County, I would be all for the Tournament continuing there. I think you are intentionally making things up at this point.

HolyHandgernade 10-21-2011 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCF Knight (Post 8033799)
That will hurt the Overland Park side of the State line as well. But I do hope that Jayhawk fans enjoy giving all of their money to the states of Texas and Oklahoma. That is where everything is headed.
It will have a minimal impact, mostly not being able to attend the game in person. Are you trying to tell me that people in Overland Park who went to establishments in Overland Park to watch the tournament will no longer do so if it is broadcast from OKC? Come on.

track 10-21-2011 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KcMizzou (Post 8031633)
That's fine.

You'd go too though, if you had the chance.
I love the Big 12.... There is no other conference I would rather be in...NONE.

mnchiefsguy 10-21-2011 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033854)
It will have a minimal impact, mostly not being able to attend the game in person. Are you trying to tell me that people in Overland Park who went to establishments in Overland Park to watch the tournament will no longer do so if it is broadcast from OKC? Come on.
So if the impact is so minimal, why should it matter where the tourney is held?

Most of the revenues you are siting are local KC revenues...generated by sales tax. That money is not going anywhere towards Mizzou and you know that. Is there a state sales tax for Mizzou that no one knows about?

dirk digler 10-21-2011 09:55 PM
Interesting story about the contract that KU-MU signed to extend the border showdown at Arrowhead.
Quote:
The four-year extension that was signed in 2008 included a reworked contract. Missouri and Kansas no longer receive a guaranteed payout to protect the schools if the game bombs at the box office. The two sides now split all revenue after the Chiefs and Arrowhead take about $350,000 for expenses.

HolyHandgernade 10-21-2011 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 8033888)
So if the impact is so minimal, why should it matter where the tourney is held?

Most of the revenues you are siting are local KC revenues...generated by sales tax. That money is not going anywhere towards Mizzou and you know that. Is there a state sales tax for Mizzou that no one knows about?
Don't be so intentionally dense. Missouri funds the state sponsored schools. They get those funds from generated revenues. Those revenues are from collected taxes. The more they have, the more discretionary they can be with what improvements they want to make within the state of Missouri. Missouri's desire is to USE the rivalry with Kansas to increase their intake. I don't care if MU and Missouri wants to do that, I'm just stating what I believe KU would concede to to continue the yearly game in the state of Missouri.

As for the tournament, that's a conference decision and the conference will want the tournament held in and to the benefit of a state within the conference. If you really can't understand that then this discussion is at an impasse.

Frazod 10-21-2011 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033751)
According to the KC pleading, the Border War generates 14 million dollars for the KC area. Taxes from those revenues are collected by the state of Missouri which in turn, helps fund the University of Missouri. Guess where those revenue don't partially return? That's right, to KU. So, like I said, if KC wants to pony up to keep that 14 million revenue stream going, it needs to pay the Jayhawks more to do so.
Almost makes up for all the professional sports benefits Kansans enjoy that are paid for by the residents of Jackson County, doesn't it?

Al Bundy 10-21-2011 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 8033854)
It will have a minimal impact, mostly not being able to attend the game in person. Are you trying to tell me that people in Overland Park who went to establishments in Overland Park to watch the tournament will no longer do so if it is broadcast from OKC? Come on.
No, more along the lines of people who came into the city to watch the tournament in person and stayed on the Kansas side. Now that money will all be in the south. By the way.... the KU AD needs to understand the Big 12 is not a midwest conference, it is a southwest conference.

HolyHandgernade 10-21-2011 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazod (Post 8033989)
Almost makes up for all the professional sports benefits Kansans enjoy that are paid for by the residents of Jackson County, doesn't it?
I think its dangerous to cross collegiate loyalties with professional geographic ones. KC set itself up to be a regional attraction. I know KU fans that can't stand the Chiefs and Kansas based Chiefs fans that can't stand the Jayhawks or Wildcats.

kcfan82 10-21-2011 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 8033664)
They are costing Kansas money too. Lots of people stay and do things on the Kansas side of the line while the Big XII tourney is in town.

The BIG XII contract with Sprint runs through 2014. If the tourney continues to outperform OKC and Dallas without Mizzou when that contract expires...I can see the Big XII keeping KC in its tournament rotation. If the tourney crashes and burns without Mizzou in it, then it should leave town anyway.

The ACC holds its basketball tourney in Atlanta sometimes. Georgia Tech is an ACC member, but they are far and away the red headed stepchild in that state. Georgia and the SEC dominate that landscape, but Atlanta does the basketball tourney well and stays in their rotation.

At the end of the day it is about buts in the seats. If KC continues to put more buts in the seats than OKC or Dallas, which it consistently has, then I think KC will be able to keep its place in the tourney rotation. Will KC have to work harder than those cities? Yes, because they will have to keep their attendance up and ahead of those cities to keep their spot, but it is doable.
Surprising considering Georgia Tech has twice as many NC's and has the most recent one by 10 years.


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