Yes, Toney was routinely speeding/slowing into zones.

He does the 'receiver shit' that separates the wheat from the chaff. He knows what he's doing out there and he's obviously incredibly athletic.

He just has to catch the damn ball.

when I watched the A-22 the other night, most (possibly all) of the instances when we had guys running open deep (15+ yards) down the field were in the 2nd half.

I would give that a +/- 1 fudge factor, as it was Saturday night, and I'd had a couple Scotches by then.

One of them I felt was iffy, because it wasn't an easy throw and Pat would've had to throw a nearly perfect pass, both in terms of ball placement but also arc over a defender. Anyway, I counted 5, maybe 6 times.

I think your argument is "if you see the DBs nameplate and your target is in man coverage with his head turned, he's open.."

I just don't buy it here and you have to freeze frame to see why - the DB is looking at Moore and seems to have him clearly picked up when Mahomes comes off him.

Now as Mahomes is coming off, the DB weirdly turns the wrong way to create a little space that wasn't there as Mahomes goes onto his next read.

But I don't blame Mahomes at all for coming off that read when he did. It LOOKS from a read standpoint like the DBs correctly switched off and the boundary should be fairly well closed off. You don't have time to stand and watch to see if it plays out that way.

The DB defended it as a vert rather than a fade and created some space, but that wasn't want Mahomes saw. He saw the switch executed, the DB pick up Moore and a boundary that was going to close off quickly.

Hell, a worse QB maybe tries that throw because he locks onto the read and hopes it opens up for him. But Mahomes doesn't do that. He's going to process and move on. And the decision he made, when he made it, makes perfect sense.

Did you watch JT's QB School tape on the game? Good stuff. And it's just the passing reps, so you don't have to skip through all the rushing/ST plays.


Anyway, JT shows that Toney actually takes his eyes off Pat for a second to check on the DB directly across from him about 10 yards away, and Pat throws the ball before Toney gets his eyes back to Pat.

I think that's why he drops that ball.

He turns his head back to Pat, who no longer has the ball, and he has to find it; in that short bit of time it takes to locate the ball in flight, it's already on him, and slightly behind him (which I think is Toney drifting too far because he hasn't found the ball yet), and he gets his hands up a fraction of a second late, and he has to twist around to boot.

I mean, you want to check on the DB, but I think Toney could've checked on him out of the corner of his eye, keeping his eyes on Pat when he threw it, and he would've caught that one easily.

Nah i'll have to check it out.

FINALLY showed another flash today. An early TD and arguably the game sealing play.

made the big play in the clutch, gotta like it. Keep improving

Didn't give up on the play and Pat found him. That's gotta be a good sign.

Nice to see him catch the ball this week.

Gotta be a coincidence booster. Good effort today.

If you don't like Skyy Moore? You're and unknowing fan, of one of the other 31 teams

Can Skyy have a catch without a flag. TD...flag for DPI. Fifty four yard catch...flag, Kelce fight. Son of a ****ing bitch he must feel cursed

Nice bounce back game.

First touchdown not in a Super Bowl.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Skyy Moore Touchdown <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/tix7XDlDjl">pic.twitter.com/tix7XDlDjl</a></p>&mdash; Starcade Media (@StarcadeMediaKC) <a href="https://twitter.com/StarcadeMediaKC/status/1703484119307485647?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 17, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's a great throw as well.

Ball was 3/4 of the way there by the time Moore turned - it was just perfect timing on both sides.

Not a hard throw; not a hard route - just a basic stop route. But when you have it timed that precisely and a QB that is as good with pre-snap reads as Mahomes is (i.e. someone that will know if a DB is going to undercut and house that), it's easy money.

Lets be real, Moore was covered as **** on that play and got pushed around in the press.

The window Mahomes had to throw that in was small but we have a God tier QB.

But he caught the ball and made the play. He did good to get his head around and stayed in bounds. Confidence booster, good to see him make a play and all that.

Just keep catching when it's thrown his way and he'll be fine.

As it stands, we need a guy to step up and create on his own. KT, Kelce a and Pacheco can but KT may just be a career part timer.

I’m not sucking his dick just yet.

He had one catch on an indefensible pass and another in which his defender just fell down and left him wide open.

Props for at least catching the ball this time around, though!

Green Bay has had some really good drafts over the last few years. They're good now, and they're just going to get better over the next few seasons if Love stays healthy.

As long as they don't run into powerhouses like the Falcons, they'll be fine.

It's not like JJSS did all this and that to get open. Just catch the ball when it's thrown your way, the fans will love you for it and maybe you'll get paid.

Why the **** do you have my avy weirdo?

Whoa WTF

LMAO

I totally thought i was responding to you. Didnt even realize it.

A few times already this year, there's been a throw in the middle of the field to Moore as pressure is coming and Mahomes is on the move, Moore has to leap for it, and it goes off his hands.

These are catches that a guy who isn't so undersized probably makes, that a JJSS makes. That turn punts into first downs.

A game of inches, and all.

I'm ****ing high as shit and when I saw it I was like "WTF? I didn't post that?"

I wonder what people think when they see my avatar. I’m imagining it’s nothing good.

Seeing George Pickens shine tonight was kind of tough. I like Skyy but he still looks like he's figuring it out. Hope he goes off this Sunday and his chemistry with Patrick continues to grow. Still a very young season.

Yeah. Pickens has been kind of up and down, but those games he takes over are...not fun to watch.

Lol you ****ing people and your T Boone Pickens obsession.

The Chiefs can't draft EVERY good player you want. Quit being crybabies.

Christ this shit is Tyler Lockett all over again.

I mean I maintain there's a good chance he becomes a complete pain in the a$$ crybaby and distraction for the Steelers. So there's that.

You mean D.K. Metcalf

You mean Higgins

You mean whatever that Dallas DE that tribal liked better than Karlafits?

Well gee why don't they just draft good players with every single pick. Someone let Tart Cheech know that tip.

Yeah my thoughts as well. I still didn't see much separation, but I only watched the live TV broadcast.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Through two weeks, I&#39;ve seen TONS of hitches from Mahomes in his pass attempts; I&#39;m assuming Mahomes is looking for Skyy to take this deep after setting up the corner. He curls it instead, which causes the hitch from Mahomes, and then he has no choice but to re-locate this. <a href="https://t.co/tCcpBGRifZ">pic.twitter.com/tCcpBGRifZ</a></p>&mdash; Daniel Harms�� (@InHarmsWay19) <a href="https://twitter.com/InHarmsWay19/status/1705292099770270135?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 22, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This route looks like shit. I can't imagine they drew it up like that: make a lumbering shoulder fake, then when the DB flips and you can get separation, just kinda sit there.

I love assumptions.

If Mahomes was looking for Moore to take that deep then he would have thrown the ball deep. His "hitch" comes when Moore turns the DB around and there's literally nothing but green grass in front of Moore deep. No reason to not throw that ball deep if that was indeed where the route was intended to go. However, there is a reason to not throw that ball where the route ended up because the underneath defender is reading Mahomes like a book.

seems like he's coming along. Good to see.

Yes. Still not quite where we'd all like him to be but definite progress the past two weeks.

4/42 was the kind of game I was expecting from him early in his rookie season. I had him going for 600ish yards as a rookie.

So he's a year behind where I hoped he'd be. That's not the end of the world.

If he manages 650-700 yards this season he's...fine. He's on course to be a solid possession option for a few years before he likely gets layered and we move on.

That's not a bad pick at that point.

This kid is going to be just fine. I like what he brings in terms of attitude on the field. He's never going to be a #1, that's Rice IMO, but he can be a great #2 type WR.

Great #2 receivers go for 1,000 yards and 8 scores. He ain't gonna be that either.

But he can be a very good 3rd option, IMO.

800ish seems like a viable long-term target mark for him.

Again, it's a tools thing. They're just not standout. He's going to do as much as the system allows him to do and once he leaves KC, he's going to fade away in a couple years.

But if he can become a solid 3rd receving option here for 3-4 years before that happens, you just shrug, forget about the opportunity cost and move along. At that point it's just a pretty average 2nd round pick rather than any sort of bust.

So...fine. That works.

nice route but what throw by Gabbert

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Skyy Moore out here breaking ankles. <a href="https://t.co/SXck5XElpV">pic.twitter.com/SXck5XElpV</a></p>&mdash; Adam Best (@Arrowhead_Adam) <a href="https://twitter.com/Arrowhead_Adam/status/1706081592509120750?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 24, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Damn, tell me that guy can't run a killer route

A lot of what he does is unnecessary white noise against a quality CB, though. It's needless window dressing that throws the timing off.

But that said, the issue isn't 'can' he run a good route - it's how often he does so. He has to be more consistent and THAT'S what will get him more targets. Especially on timing routes.

That will be such a massive deal for this offense that's so dependent on precise timing. It isn't about him making 6 dekes and finding space on a scramble drill. He needs to do that on time in the offense so we can start looking at him early in the progression and fire it knowing that he's going to be where he needs to be.

That's the development we need to see. A route like that one doesn't really move the needle for me a ton.

big picture though - there's a hell of a lot more to WR success than just raw talent (athleticism,) I'd argue instincts as well as free lancing are equally as important, and the last two are where I am finally seeing some growth from week-to-week.

That route is what I mean when I say he can be our slot guy.

Also still laughing at that rando that said Skyy can't run routes

Paging Skyy Moore. Where are you Skyy Moore

Skyy can't run routes.

Not with the necessary timing and consistency.

Being on the same page as the QB and being able to run routes aren't the same thing.

You know what would've moved the needle for me?

Being able to run a simple !@#$ing quick out on 3rd down inside the 10 to pick up a 1st down.

Y'all have got to stop falling in love with this foot-fire bullshit. That's NOT how he is going to be successful in this league. It works in the MAC but it won't work in the NFL.

Guy needs to hit his mark, make his cut and get separation. THAT'S an NFL caliber route. Throwing in 6 dekes to finally get free doesn't do us much good at all.

Rounding off a simple quick out and not having the proper depth is absolutely the same thing as not being able to run a route.

He's not on the same page with his QB because he runs sloppy routes. Routinely.

You're falling for flash over substance because the substance isn't there. Devante Adams runs routes - Skyy Moore just moves his feet a lot and rounds his shit off.

Route running is about timing and location. Moore is awful at both of those things. You keep wanting to give him credit for stuff that works in 1v1 drills and that's just not how an NFL offense operates. If you can't get where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there, you're not running quality routes.

Moore doesn't.

Bro, he ****ed up a simple out route. On a play where I'm presuming he was the priority first read on a third down. That's just bad.

At this point I'd bite another team's hand off for a trade with us getting a 5th round pick for him. His ceiling is being a JAG.

I like Skyy. I think he's probably a good kid, and he has a lot of heart.

But he's just not 'developing' fast enough.

Currently he's on pace to catch 30 balls in 2023. That's an improvement of 8 catches over last season. And even at his current inflated yds/cth average, that's less than 500 yds receiving. If we use his average from last season, he'll end up with 350 yards or so. Just as a refresher, Skyy finished last season with 22 catches and 250 yards. He's now projected to improve to 30 catches and just under 400 yds.

Now, none of that would matter if he was a rookie. But he's in his second year, and we were sold this idea that Skyy would be a legit WR2 this season, or at least would fill that role on this team in 2023. That he would effectively shoulder a lot more responsibility for the WR room production.


So, where 's the beef?

yeah my patience is wearing thin with this dude. he looks like the definition of a JAG

Nailed it.

They've moved Rice along quickly.

Kinda puts to bed the whole "rookies don't play etc" stuff, no?

He's a bust and right now looks like a slower Mecole Hardman. All of his success is on designed plays.

He's on the field just 36% of the time. So what is your definition of playing? Moore was on the field 27% of the time last year so he's just barely on the field more.

This year Moore is out there 62% of the time.

In week 4.

I'd imagine Skyy wasn't exactly moving along at that pace last year, no?

So in limited opportunities a rookie who knows his ass from a hole in the ground can actually get targets, eh?

Weird.

Almost like we've been saying that all along...

Here's to hoping he turns more of those targets into receptions vs interceptions.

Meanwhile I'm just sitting here asking why the **** Rice/Ross are not starting at this point

In the spirit of saying something nice, he threw a real nice and active block on mahomes game sealing run.

Skyy was ranked the best run-blocking WR on the team last season. Kid throws a good block.

Ah crap. Isn't meh known as a good pass blocker? Sigh at least skyy hits the corner, turns up field, and makes some yards when he takes handoffs.

Rice needs to have a game where he doesn't drop at least one pass.

He's dropped a ball in EVERY single game since the preseason.

C'mon boy, get it together.

Wanna know why PFF is just silly?

Moore's RBLK Grade on the season: 63.8 -- when broken down by gap/zone? 60.9 in Zone, 56.6 in Gap.

MVS RBLK grade last season: 42.1 -- When broken down gap/zone? 73.0 in Zone, 62.4 in Gap.

PFF gives him better grades for both types of runs - by a LOT. And gives him a worse overall RBLK score - again by a lot.

That makes precisely zero sense whatsoever.

PFF makes these grades up as they go. They're complete bullshit. Guy averages 12 points 'higher' per category and 20 points LOWER on aggregate. I'm not a mathematician but I know that ain't how maths work.

He had several good ones in the running game last night.

I'd rather have a WR who can get open but can't block for shit.

So put Prince Wituango, our swing tackle out there then

Lol, not arguing with you guys. I’d rather Skyy be an above average pass catcher as well. And fwiw, it wasnt just PFF that rated him as the teams best run-blocker. At the end of the day, he is good at it.

He's starting to head down the slower Mecole route. Still hoping the kid improves, but so far his ROI is not very good.

LMAO We've found the Frank Clark is good in coverage equivalent for Moore, eh?

FYP

I'd say it's more 'sets the edge'.

It's really just something he does at a passable level that we're now elevating to something he does extremely well (and putting it on equal footing to the thing we actually acquired him to do...). Like Clark setting the edge, Moore does that job adequately. And like Clark rushing the passer, Moore can't do his primary purpose for shit.

If this were Frank Clark is Good in Coverage it would essentially be like "Well Moore is amazing on jet sweeps..." or something. Some ancillary gimmick that we built up to great importance.

I hope he does too, but at this point I'd trade straight up for Byron Pringle.

I don’t get why KC coaches like him so much. They keep referring to these great practices but it doesn’t translate to actual games.

More like skyy Less, am i right?

Yeah, I was hopeful we'd see him take a step this year, but it doesn't look to be happening.

He's much more of a bust than Mecole Hardman at this point in his career.

He's on pace for 30 catches and 476 yds. I'd say he's the equal bust to Hardman. Now if continues to go half of the games with goose eggs that will be a different conversation.