Yeah.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-1715911...2261_180131126

When you hit the ball, where on the face are you making contact? Toe or heel?

Also, what directions do your divots point? To the left or right of the target, or straight on?

Sweet!

They're actually an awful idea because the plastic of the tee acts as a buffer between the club and the ball.

I'm feeling decent about my game now. Still haven't broke 90, or even had a real good 9 hole stretch. But when I hit my driver well, its going at least 250 and straight. Keeping my left wrist flat and getting consistency in my approach and set up to the ball have been an amazing confidence boost. I'm not hitting everything off the tee like that, but probably over 50% of my drives are hit like that. The rest of my game needs work, but off the tee box has always been my biggest flaw.

I upgraded my clubs too.

Mizuno JPX 825 5- pw
Cobra AMP hybrid 3 & 4
50 deg Adams wedge
58 deg Cleveland CG16
Still looking for a 54 deg wedge, haven't decided whether I like the Adams or the Cleveland
Cleveland Classic #7 putter
Still hitting my old Taylor Made 360 driver

I fear I don't like that putter. its a lot lighter than my old one, doesn't seem to make solid contact with the ball. not going to give up on it yet though.
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upper portion of the middle of the club face
I'm only talking about the driver, everything else is going pretty darn good right now (knock on wood) so there's no divot.

I changed my stance with the irons and couldn't be happier with the way they're working. I would like a little more distance (my 6 iron is the bat for 155 yards), but I'm not going to try and fix them they aren't broke.

Without seeing your swing it's hard to tell exactly, but when you line up square with your driver you might consider pulling your right foot back a few inches. It will encourage a path more from the inside, which will help eliminate the cut.

A few things of note:

If the ball starts right of the target it means that you are hitting the ball from the inside. If it starts left of the target it means that you are hitting from the outside. How the ball curves after starting is determined by your grip and release.

Pull hook--outside path, strong release.
Pull slice (most common swing for amateurs)--outside path, weak release
Push hook inside path, strong release
Push slice--inside path, weak release.

It can't be any worse than my slice with driver or 3 wood. It's actually getting really embarrassing for my son.

Thank you, I'll try that this evening.

I'm not what one would call a decent golfer. I only break 90 occasionally....normally 91-95 is where I'm at with a handicap right now at 17.1. I've never broke 85, but one of these days I will (maybe). I could be a lot lower with the guys I play with (their favorite club is the foot wedge) but I refuse to do it.....it just takes the fun out of it for me. Hell, it's supposed to be a challenge.
I enjoy the game and have been getting to play more often this year finally. I bought a cart (I just realized I haven't posted any pics of it...will have to remedy that soon) from a course that was going out of business and re-did it in Chiefs colors.
Last Friday I did par 8 of 18, but blew the round all to crap with back to back 8s on par 4s and a 9 on a par 5 when I dunked not one, but two balls in the drink and finished with a 90.

If you have time you can try this drill:

Assuming you are right-handed:


| o |

The big mark is you. The circle is the ball. The small line is an object placed outside of the ball. Practice hitting short irons. If you swing from the outside you'll hit the object. If you swing from the inside, you'll cure the swing patch that causes a slice.

Some people use 2x4s. Others use pool noodles. Almost anything will work.

Jack Nicklaus once relayed a story about a guy playing in a pro-am. The amateur hit a shot really close on a tough hole, then missed the putt badly. He told the amateur that he missed the putt because he didn't think he deserved to make it.

I believe there is a lot of merit to that in golf. We set up barriers for ourselves and make the entire round about the achievement of a score rather than the best execution of each stroke. Then, when we start out well we end up playing prevent defense instead of just dropping the hammer. I used to have a lot of issues with this. If I'd hit it to 15 feet I'd think "Just don't make bogey" instead of trying to make birdie.

If you can par 8/18, you're good enough to shoot 82-85 right now, even with a blow-up hole. You just have to be willing to believe that you are good enough to do it.

Cool, thanks.

I don't know about all this. :D

Most shots are missed or results determined before a golfer ever starts his downswing. Most slices are caused when the player takes the club away inside the target line causing him to have to re-route the club over the top in order to hit the ball at the target. The over the top move of course creates a pull or a shot that starts left. That being the case your average player will hold the club open through impact turning the pull into a slice. If he doesn't he'll smother it or top it. If that's the case then moving ones right foot back a couple of inches might exacerbate the problem.

And the direction the ball moves or curves after it starts in a given direction is determined by the direction the clubface is pointing at impact. I guess ones release could play a factor in that but that's not a good way to look at that in my humble opinion. I think focusing on ones release can be a mistake. It's not baseball. In golf the release is a natural result that occurs when one properly swings the golf club. I never think about my release unless I was going to keep the clubface from closing on a knockdown or punch type of shot. Even then I think of it as just holding the face open or even keeping the toe from passing the heel of the club. I'd never think of releasing or holding my release.

Some guy took pity on me and said that I needed to "turn my hands over" to correct my slice, as well as not trying to squeeze the grips so hard. I worked pretty well with my irons, but not with driver or three wood.

Stronger grip might help and gripping the club to tightly is a terrible thing.

So, which is it?

Causing your slice? LOL I wouldn't want to give online lessons/instruction/tips to a person I've never seen swing a club or hit a ball.

People who have seen me swing (neighbor's a pro) say that:

I grip WAY too hard.

I swing inside the ball, whatever that means.

That my back swing isn't far enough (bad back). And that when I begin my forward swing, it's REALLY violent.

That the club face is WAY too open at the top of my backswing. Said that one should look like a waiter holding a tray at the top...

Then listen to him. Sounds like he said Loosen up your grip, take the club away a little outside the target line and then try and transition slowly and gently from your backswing to you through swing. Then keep your grip relaxed and let the club swing naturally through the ball.

Have the waiter bring you a Grey Goose extra dry with a lemon twist.

Little of both.

First time I saw myself on video I about shit myself. My front shoulder was turning damn near to my BACK foot. And my hands were breaking down at the top. There are vids of me with a driver where the head is below my ass. Unreal.

Now my swing key is to stop my backswing when my front shoulder gets to the ball - and I've lowered my scores significantly over the last month or so.

I was going to go the course but it looks like it'll be raining by 6:00. It might give me an hour of play time but I'd feel rushed at this point. Can't be rushed and accomplish anything on the golf course.

Moving your foot back won't make your backswing more inside, it will make your downswing more inside.

You are confused by my verbiage.

When I say "weak release" I'm talking about the release that 90% of amateurs have, which is an improper release. A lot of people call it a chicken wing. They come in too steep and hold on for dear life. A strong release is a correct one, similar to a properly hit tennis forehand, wherein the right arm overtakes the left and it feels like you are shaking hands with the target.

FWIW, Donger's neighbor's analysis actually points to him hitting a push slice, which will go the farthest right of all ball flights. It's rarer than a classic over the top move, but the best solution a feel based one: feel like you are finishing the shot on your front foot. It's what happened to Tiger Woods when he went bad with the Haney swing. Too much of his weight stayed back and w/ a weak grip he couldn't save the shot with his hands.

Ball started right (face angle, due to grip) and went right (weak release).

I ****ing knew it. BRB.

I'm a 10 handicap, played Saturday. For some odd reason, almost every long iron I hit was fat. It was infuriating. I.e. a 4iron off the tee would go about 150 yards straight, but fat. 3 iron would go 170 yards, fat. I would rather scorch the ball on a line and pull it 50 yards into the woods OB left of the green, pin high, rather than being fat and straight and short. It was awful. Worse than taking penalties.

Many times you can self-diagnose with the swing. If you want to know where your path is, just look at the divots you make. If they point to the right of the target line, then your path is too far inside; left and they are too far outside.

Thin wins.

They are all left, when I actually leave a divot.

I'm also one of those people who is "afraid" of hitting off the fairway. I'm much more comfortable hitting out of the rough. I think my flaw is that I try to scoop up the ball up, instead of "hitting down on the ball." When I hit off the fairway (and the ****ing ball actually leaves the ground), I barely leave any divot.

Make sense?

What was I doing wrong then? My buddies said they coudln't find anything different at all. One said i was talking the club too far back and thudding it on impact. It was infuriating whatever it was.

I actually use an app on my phone to record my swing and then diagnose what I'm doing wrong when I go through a hitting slump. The app is called coacheseye if anyone is interested. Pretty helpful tool.

That's a classic over-the-top swing.

I understand your frustration. Golf is psychologically counter-intuitive. You hit a thin shot, so you want to help the ball in the air, which only causes you to hit it thinner.


This is an excellent description of OTT. FWIW, this guy really knows his stuff and explains things in a very understandable manner.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oxUctb36j04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There is no way to know w/o seeing it.

Things it could be caused by:

1) Too steep of a downswing
2) Loss of your spine angle, which throws off your swing plane
3) Casting the club
4) Ball position

If it was just your long irons, it might be more of a mental block. They're hard clubs to hit and a lot of times I rush when swinging them, which leads to fat or thin contact. When I incorporate more patience and better rhythm in my transition I hit them far better.

Thanks. I haven't recorded my swing in several years. So much easier now.

Yeah, it's a lot easier. That app actually lets you slow it down and play it frame by frame. It's helped me a few times.

I would kill for the PING putting app on Android.

I started the year focusing on an attempt to keep my right shoulder back on the downswing, then slowly went away from it. Hit the ball like refried ass yesterday, then went back to it on the range and was flushing everything again.

I have three main focus points right now.

Shortening the backswing.

Stop "rolling" my back foot. The inside of my back foot is coming way up off the ground, to where the outside of the foot is on the ground. Again, never even noticed it until video. Now hyper-sensitive to bracing the back leg and keeping weight on inside of back foot.

And because of those issues, I'm really working on making sure I get my weight to my front foot in transition. Still catch myself laying back a bit at times, and I'll block one right or scoop the shit out of it. My instructor wants my knees to damn near touch to exaggerate it.

I used to roll onto my back foot really bad. Putting a few balls on the outside of the right foot is an interesting fix.

I tend to roll onto my left foot on the downswing to where my ankle joint is at a 90* angle to the rest of my leg when I finish the swing. Good place to have lax ligaments, I guess.

Pretty cool tool.

I always thought I was a SBST putter, and my friends gave me shit for using a Cameron California Series Monterrey - which is meant more for folks with an arc.

Turns out, I'm on the borderline between slight arc and strong arc. What putter does it recommend?

An Anser-style head. Exactly what I'm using.

When I get lazy with it, I actually put golf balls under the outside of that back foot (stepping on them) to force me to keep that back leg braced and weight distributed properly.

Holy shit. That chopping down on it thing is EXACTLY what I do. Thanks very much for the video.

Just out of curiosity...

Anyone playing anywhere "special" this summer?

Thinking about doing a two-day quickie trip somewhere within a 6 hour drive of STL.

Possible courses include:

TPC Deere Run (already played it once, what a great track)
Mirimichi (Timberlake-owned course outside Memphis)
Harvester (North of Des Moines)
Brickyard Crossing and Purgatory (Indianapolis)

I still want to hit up STL and play Missouri Bluffs and Tapawingo. My buddy and I haven't been able to work up a couple days that work yet. Hopefully it happens though.

I haven't heard of Harvester, that would be a day trip from KC. Will look into that.

I read through here and see some what I consider to be complicated swing thoughts. Complicated for me anyway.

Here's what I'm trying to do. Set up with good posture, square to the target. Stay loose and turn my shoulders away from the ball. Return my left leg to where it was at address and let my swing unfold.

The one thing I want is to stay loose and be able to turn my shoulders. Do not want to be mechanical at all. I want to be able to swing the club unencumbered by a bunch of mechanical thoughts so I can play the game with my eyes and my heart. And little feel too.

Set up, stay loose and knock hell out of it.

A few good drills you guys might want to try to help compress the golf ball by keeping the angle.....


If you have access to a pool, get a club in there and swing. It forces you to keep a flat left wrist bent right wrist.

Or fill a gym bag up with towels, hit it about half speed holding the club to the bag at impact.


Otwp, te RTJ trail is pretty awesome but it would be a trip for you probably from stl. A good drill I do when I have problems with my right foot weight distribution is keep some flex in your left knee on the way back

Great advice. Your right about the mental part, it just snowballs. And by te way "refried ass" made me laugh. Are you a writer by trade cause you're a wordsmith.

NE Birmingham is a semi-regular stop for us. Silver Lakes on the RTJ Trail as well as Limestone Springs in Oneonta.

Next time down there, I really want to play Farmlinks.

Taking the club back inside the target line can causes just that.

Sorry, but I have NO idea what that means.

Two years ago today I was in the middle of my Scotland excursion. That's the best I got. This year the best course I'll play is likely Eagle Knoll in Mid-Mo.

That's actually what I meant.

My son wants to play Pebble Beach with me. Hence, the impetus to get my act together.

Yeah, you're the reason I brought it up.

Did you ever post pics of that trip?

I've never really taken a golf vacation. I've played golf since I was 10 years old and did play some with my did when we were out of town or visiting relatives but as an adult I've never taken a golf vacation. My wife doesn't play so our vacations are to the beach. I go play sometimes but I'm a onesome and it's just not a conducive situation to good golf. The Ombre at Panama City Beach is a course I played. Or Bay Point there as well. But it's just show up and play with no motivation and a vacation buzz. I never was a social golfer though. Hell that's why I took up golf, so I could get away from all the idiots.

While that would be cool, spending $2k for essentially one day (1 night at lodge, 2 rounds of golf) is insane.

I think I'd take that two grand and spread it out over several courses, or several days at one resort. Maybe Whistling Straights, Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst, The Ocean Course, etc.

Some in this post.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=2466

I'm lucky, my wife plays, and plays pretty well.

For our honeymoon, we spent 9-10 days at the Fairmont Chateau Whistler and played 36 for like 5 straight days.

Scenic, fun course - until you get the airhorn blown for a bear sighting in the middle of your backswing.

Wife and I played Deere Run together 2 weeks after the Classic a few years back. That fairway bunker shot Zach Johnson made on 18 last year in the playoff? I was there first, and it's a bitch.

The target line is an imaginary line between your ball and the hole/target. You want to swing the club on this line. Swinging it outside or inside of the line on your backswing has varying effects on the rest of your swing and what happens when you hit the ball. You take the club inside that line on your backswing and the correction is the come over the top chop like in the video.

Does that make sense to you?

My schedule has always been such that it's easier for me to have two hour breaks than four hour breaks. As a result, I've hit thousands and thousands of golf balls, but have played relatively few rounds in comparison to the amount of range time I've spent. I've generally come to the belief that you can really only improve on the course. You can work on specific flaws on the range, but you only learn to play and score on the course itself.

I've always heard that Pebble's 19th hole in unsurpassed.

That sounds pretty awesome. Heck at this point I just like to find a good weekly group to play with. I need a game so I can stay on top of things because in a few years I'm going to start teaching my grandson to play. He needs to get off to the right start if he's going to be the greatest player of his era.:D

It absolutely was. I consider myself pretty lucky.

Then again, spend enough time on a forum like Golfwrx and hear guys tell stories about playing Pebble, Spyglass, Pinehurst, Whistling Straights, Erin Hills, Bethpage - like it's just a run-of-the-mill round - and it can bum you out.

I think my wife and I do really well for ourselves - but it makes me wonder what people do for a living to be able to afford spending a week at places like those.

We wanted to go to Pebble for our Honeymoon until I did the research and figured it would set us back nearly $10k for 5 nights and 4 rounds of golf each.

Then thought about Whistling Straights, and found we could do a week there for the bargain price of $8k.

That's what I love about a place like Deere Run - it's a tour track, and the most you'll pay is $95.

The wife and I flew out to Arizona to catch some spring training games. We played The Trilogy at Velincia and Cayote Lake . Trilogy was pretty nice.

I've always wanted to play Grayhawk. And TPC Stadium, of course.

http://grayhawkgolf.com/

The prices are crazy. The closet thing I've done is go to Phoenix to visit my dad and play golf. Thing is he's cheap when it comes to greens fees. He has his house and his cart in the garage and he plays his neighborhood course. There's so many courses I'd love to play out there but he don't want to pay that much. Ocotillo is the best course he'll go play and it's decent but I want to play the TPC and stuff like that. He won't do it. :shake:

Apparently Sergio went Full reerun:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/05/tige...hicken-remark/

LMAO...

At least he didn't say, "Or whatever the hell they eat."

I met The Fuzz back when he had an afro. He played our Pro Am. 1979 maybe. I thought he was jerk but I kind of like the older Fuzzy.

Thought I'd share for the stat guys out there. Found this spreadsheet for tracking last week, just in time to go out and throw up a 95 for the initial round.

http://www.zagerdesign.com/golf_stats/index.htm

Dude has one of the most unique swings. He lines up every shot on the hosel. Gives me the heebies just thinking about it.

I need a regular game. I could join the league at Deer Lake here in Spfd but they play the white tees. I like to play the blues. When I played Hickory Hills the other day since my dad plays the yellows I played the blues instead of the whites. I'm proud to say that at 51 working on 52 years old it didn't even seem long.

Seriously if any of the Spfdians read this and need or have a game I'm up for it. I'm a member at Deer Lake but I'd love to have a game at River Cutt or where ever. Hidden Valley. Honey Creek? I'd drive to Branson Creek......I'd be your guest at your C.C. and we'd win your member guest. Hell yeah we would!

Yeah he does line it up on the hosel. Start there and then try and hit it on the toe. A cure for the ..........I won't say it.

I'm a member at The Cassville Golf Club. If your ever down this way let me know.

The Cassville Open! I've played that in years gone by. Do they still have that?

No, I don't believe so. We do have a Member Guest. Cool thing they are doing now, is if you play with a member it's only $30 for 18.

Sergio shows yet again he's mentally weak.

Sergio just doesn't know when to shut up. What a clown.

Short version....I am in very much in debt to Hamas Jenkins. Much reps shall be his, unless he prefers a bottle of some spirits which I would gladly send, or numerous beers should we meet in person one fine day.

Apologies in advance...longish version

Hadn't been able to get out and try this until last night for men's league...(3-man 9 hole scramble), but there is no way in the world it seems like it should have had that much of a difference. We had one in fair shape off of 1, so I thought, try it and just whack the hell out of it and see where it ends up.....BAM.....LONG and straight down the middle....tried it again on #2, again, LONG and in the middle, #3 par 3, #4 SWEET, #5 right side of the fairway, but I lined up that way just to see, #6 CRUSHED, #7 par 3, #s 8 and 9 my playing partners literally said, there's no reason for us to hit.

I don't know, this could possibly be a one-day fix but I'm super excited to get back out and try it again this afternoon.

My son and I just joined our 1st country club eva! We're really enjoying it. I've never been better than a 14 handicap and right now I'm about a 20. We joined for him (10 handicap) but I'm having fun too. They have multiple weekly games going on. I just won the Tuesday night skins game - even though I was about the worst golfer there. ha! I told my son that this was real golf - match play. That and getting hot at the right time.

No problem. It's not a long-term solution. Hopefully, it just helps you feel what an inside path on the downswing feels like.

Golf is a series of adjustments and adjustments to the adjustments. Trying to find the center, never really getting there completely.

Glad to help a little.

OK, I'll have to ask another stupid question....Why do you say it's not a long term solution?

Finally think I'm going to get back into golf this year after two years of very little play. Picking up the sticks this afternoon for the first time in nearly a year.

Golfing Gods, please be kind to me.