Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 17816007)

Mahomes went 12-4 with one of the worst defenses of all-time. It was far worse than Burrow’s current defense.

Enough with the excuses for him. Fuhgettaboutit

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17816021)

You hate to see it, but mostly, you love to see it.

And yes, Mahomes had a worse defense in 2018 and was (1) a coin toss and (2) Dee Ford being an absolute moron away from playing in the Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 17816143)

For the most part, Burrow is having an MVP type of year. He's top-3 in most every QB metric. And he doesn't have a great OL or running game. He does have a pair of really good WRs, though Higgins hasn't been available the entire year. Says something about the value of quality WRs.

HE hasn't been clutch in several games, that's true, the LAC game we all just watched being the most recent example, but his defense and STs definitely haven't been helping him much at all either.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17816169)

I haven’t looked into any advanced metrics, but I don’t think the 2018 Chiefs had one of the worst defenses of all time. IIRC, they were like top 3 in getting to the passer. At least they could do something well (until it really mattered in the AFCCG).

Looks like 2018 Chiefs D allowed 26.2 PPG on average to 26.9 for the 2024 Bengals.

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17816076)

The difference is clear.

Burrow:
1. Had the ball in his hands against NE in game #1 down 6. Failed to get even a first down.

2. Had the ball in his hands against KC in game #2 with a lead and failed to extend it, where a FG doesn't beat you. (same scenario that Josh Allen was in this past Sunday against you).

3. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #5 with a lead and not only failed to extend it, threw an INT that lead to a tie, before losing in OT.

4. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #10 and failed to convert a 2pt conversion.

5. Had the ball in his hands against LAC in game #11, in a tie game and missed a blown coverage that left Chase wide open, then missed Chase on a deep pass when he was wide open on the next drive.

He's put up MVP numbers this year, by and large through 3 1/2 quarters of each game, yet when the ball is in his hands to win it, 5 times this year, he's failed every time.

You can call out the defense and kicker and coach and whatever you want but the ball was in your franchise QBs hands on 5 occasions this year with a chance for him to make plays to win games and he hasn't come through even once.

Zero for 5. If he converts even 2 of those, the team is 6-5 and right in the thick of things.

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17816076)

The difference is clear.

Burrow:
1. Had the ball in his hands against NE in game #1 down 6. Failed to get even a first down.

2. Had the ball in his hands against KC in game #2 with a lead and failed to extend it, where a FG doesn't beat you. (same scenario that Josh Allen was in this past Sunday against you).

3. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #5 with a lead and not only failed to extend it, threw an INT that lead to a tie, before losing in OT.

4. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #10 and failed to convert a 2pt conversion.

5. Had the ball in his hands against LAC in game #11, in a tie game and missed a blown coverage that left Chase wide open, then missed Chase on a deep pass when he was wide open on the next drive.

He's put up MVP numbers this year, by and large through 3 1/2 quarters of each game, yet when the ball is in his hands to win it, 5 times this year, he's failed every time.

You can call out the defense and kicker and coach and whatever you want but the ball was in your franchise QBs hands on 5 occasions this year with a chance for him to make plays to win games and he hasn't come through even once.

Zero for 5. If he converts even 2 of those, the team is 6-5 and right in the thick of things.

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17816076)

The difference is clear.

Burrow:
1. Had the ball in his hands against NE in game #1 down 6. Failed to get even a first down.

2. Had the ball in his hands against KC in game #2 with a lead and failed to extend it, where a FG doesn't beat you. (same scenario that Josh Allen was in this past Sunday against you).

3. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #5 with a lead and not only failed to extend it, threw an INT that lead to a tie, before losing in OT.

4. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #10 and failed to convert a 2pt conversion.

5. Had the ball in his hands against LAC in game #11, in a tie game and missed a blown coverage that left Chase wide open, then missed Chase on a deep pass when he was wide open on the next drive.

He's put up MVP numbers this year, by and large through 3 1/2 quarters of each game, yet when the ball is in his hands to win it, 5 times this year, he's failed every time.

You can call out the defense and kicker and coach and whatever you want but the ball was in your franchise QBs hands on 5 occasions this year with a chance for him to make plays to win games and he hasn't come through even once.

Zero for 5. If he converts even 2 of those, the team is 6-5 and right in the thick of things.

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17816169)

I haven’t looked into any advanced metrics, but I don’t think the 2018 Chiefs had one of the worst defenses of all time. IIRC, they were like top 3 in getting to the passer. At least they could do something well (until it really mattered in the AFCCG).

Looks like 2018 Chiefs D allowed 26.2 PPG on average to 26.9 for the 2024 Bengals.

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17816199)

This is the big knock on him even before this season started. His lack of fourth quarter TDs in the playoffs was just brushed aside. Problem is that you can’t do that as it’s telling that when he needs to make a play in the biggest moments he fails to produce.

This is the time when he had the best opportunity to carry this team on his back and he can’t do it. What’s sad is that he is actually putting up MVP numbers but has zero chance of winning it. Like it or not, the MVP is essentially a QB award and regardless of how great a QBs numbers are, they will always be judged on W/L record more than anything else.

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17816076)

The difference is clear.

Burrow:
1. Had the ball in his hands against NE in game #1 down 6. Failed to get even a first down.

2. Had the ball in his hands against KC in game #2 with a lead and failed to extend it, where a FG doesn't beat you. (same scenario that Josh Allen was in this past Sunday against you).

3. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #5 with a lead and not only failed to extend it, threw an INT that lead to a tie, before losing in OT.

4. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #10 and failed to convert a 2pt conversion.

5. Had the ball in his hands against LAC in game #11, in a tie game and missed a blown coverage that left Chase wide open, then missed Chase on a deep pass when he was wide open on the next drive.

He's put up MVP numbers this year, by and large through 3 1/2 quarters of each game, yet when the ball is in his hands to win it, 5 times this year, he's failed every time.

You can call out the defense and kicker and coach and whatever you want but the ball was in your franchise QBs hands on 5 occasions this year with a chance for him to make plays to win games and he hasn't come through even once.

Zero for 5. If he converts even 2 of those, the team is 6-5 and right in the thick of things.

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17816076)

The difference is clear.

Burrow:
1. Had the ball in his hands against NE in game #1 down 6. Failed to get even a first down.

2. Had the ball in his hands against KC in game #2 with a lead and failed to extend it, where a FG doesn't beat you. (same scenario that Josh Allen was in this past Sunday against you).

3. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #5 with a lead and not only failed to extend it, threw an INT that lead to a tie, before losing in OT.

4. Had the ball in his hands against Balt in game #10 and failed to convert a 2pt conversion.

5. Had the ball in his hands against LAC in game #11, in a tie game and missed a blown coverage that left Chase wide open, then missed Chase on a deep pass when he was wide open on the next drive.

He's put up MVP numbers this year, by and large through 3 1/2 quarters of each game, yet when the ball is in his hands to win it, 5 times this year, he's failed every time.

You can call out the defense and kicker and coach and whatever you want but the ball was in your franchise QBs hands on 5 occasions this year with a chance for him to make plays to win games and he hasn't come through even once.

Zero for 5. If he converts even 2 of those, the team is 6-5 and right in the thick of things.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17816219)

Oh wow.

I mean...that's pretty damning. I didn't realize it was that pervasive, especially when viewed on concert with some of his post-season numbers.

It's awfully strange to me that the first thing people say about the guy is that he's clutch (again, presumptively based on a single win against a team that collapsed offensively in the 2nd half). Literally every other bit of evidence suggests the opposite.

Say he's an incredible pure passer or brilliant processor if you want. I have a harder time coming up with an obvious rebuttal to that.

But the clutch thing? That one's just strange. There's seemingly little basis for it.

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17816175)

TBF, i'm not putting it all on him. He's doing more than enough throughout the the game where he shouldn't have to be a hero at the end of most of their games. There's a lot of blame to spread around.

I'm simply pointing out that all those numbers are great...but if you don't make the 1, 2 or 3 plays needed at the end...so what?