He's drafted 2 receivers with valuable assets and one of them scored while showing potential.

Relax

I’m including taking CEH over Higgins.

1) Hardman over Metcalf/McLaurin
2) CEH over Higgins/Pittman (or Taylor if you stick with a RB)
3) Moore over Pickens (and Pierce)

Rice has clearly shown early promise, so we’ll see.

Veach has been very good at evaluating cornerbacks, perhaps better than anyone. It’s okay to admit he’s been equally as bad at evaluating WRs.

Are we sure Veach is the one making the decisions about WRs? Have to think Andy is just as responsible for whatever good or poor wrs are selected.

Why? Andy has input, but he doesn’t do any of the scouting, and he makes none of the draft picks

For a great as Veach has been on the CB position; I believe he has been the exact opposite at WR. I have never seen anything out of Skyy. Never popped once.

Andy Reid absolutely dictates the type of player they are drafting. Maybe not the player but he defines the type. They’ve been trying to replace that Tyreek-type since Hardman.

A lot of the judgements being made here are typical hindsight bullshit.

Before I’d write him off I’d actually throw him the ball some

I think the worry is he’s been absolutely horrible at drafting offensive skill positions.

Rice does look like he could be good tho

CP loves this dude!

Our WRs need 5 years in the league to learn the offense before we get them on the field catching passes.

Dictates? No.

He has input. He has the same information gathered by scouts that Veach does. He even gets involved with player interviews pre-draft. But Veach is the one who dictates. Veach makes the actual pick and the decision. Ideally there is plenty of communication with Andy on that front, and that's something that Dorsey couldn't do very well. But it's Veach who makes those choices.

Looked like he got open plenty to me from section 211 last week

Pat shoild throw him the ball more

I would trade Skyy Moore for Gehrig Deiter and a 7th rounder from 2033.

Yeah I can agree with that. Perhaps dictates was the wrong word. But in my mind I always figured that Andy had a strong influence on the ranking of the position. I think he is involved enough that he is impacting the decision more so than some other positions.

It's also possible Veach might have gone in different directions a few times if we ran a different scheme. Perhaps the scheme and Reid have no influence but I feel like both probably do.

When has Andy ever drafted a guy like Skyy Moore before the 3rd round?

Todd Pinkston? Who ironically is on the coaching staff

I remember one route that stood out to me, some kind of pick play or defender just got lost, as sky was heading down the right sideline with a trailing defender, and Pat passed to the other side short. Don’t think he ever looked Skys way, could be a trust issue, but on that play he was wide open.

Kick the tires on Freddie Mitchell?

The scheme dictates player types. It’s Andy’s scheme. When Veach talks about being in lockstep with the coaching staff, it means he’s picking players that fit scheme. I guess you can twist that and say Reid isn’t dictating players but whatever.

Tyreek almost had the same number of yards today that Skyy has in his whole career LMAO

We've had guys from 5-9" to 6-5".

From 4.28 to 4.68.

Its not the scheme dictating player type, its player type dictating usage.

Andy always makes the final pick whether draft or FA. Veach scouts the present candidates whether college or FA players according to the needs seen in Andy's eyes and Veach presents them and Andy makes the picks PERIOD.

Haven't been able to break down all of the All-22, but I've seen at least a halves worth of plays and Skyy Moore was beating coverage on several plays and Patrick looked at him, but never threw it his way. People talking shit on him clearly haven't seen his routes, because he looked really good.

Some people watching the all 22 say he never got separation, some people say he was open but never got the ball.

WHICH IS IT, PEOPLE???

I’m willing to bet it will figure itself over time. And if Moore is getting separation and running the right routes, Mahomes will find him and he’ll be successful.

I wouldn’t use any single game as a full report card. But the guy ran about 3x as many routes as someone like Toney and got a comparable amount of targets. It’s a bit of a colored flag.

Unless he just literally can't catch, Reid and Mahomes will put him in a can't fail position. Hopefully sooner than later but at some point they will figure out how to adjust the offense to all these WRs regardless of how talented they actually are.

The advanced stats tried to tell us Skyy Moore got separation, alot last year but Mahomes didn't throw to him. Why would Mahomes do that? I don't know the answer, but I'd like to. Surely there is a reason and Mahomes does not trust him. Seems like everytime Mahomes does try to throw to him bad things happen more than not.

It's 1 game guys

From JT’s QB school it looks like he got open about 8 times.

The one that is egregiously so far is the one on 3rd down that he throws it to him but it sails and Skyy barely gets his hands on it. Moore was wide open with no one in his vicinity for 5 seconds at least.

One the pass that Toney and some other receiver are crossing on 3rd down before we get a FG if Mahomes waits just a hair longer, then Moore is wide open for a 1st down.

There are a couple like that, where Mahomes just gets it out too quick. Also when Mahomes takes off and slides just short of the 1st he has Moore wide open 15 yds down the field.

I've been noticing that too. It's like Patrick saw Skyy wink at Brittney or something. I don't get it. If Skyy is one on one and cuts he's most likely open. Mecole 2.0? IDK.

That 4th down heave to Skyy is infuriating to watch. Mahomes makes a hell of a play and gets it to him, but he just drops it. I can't believe how many drops there were.

Skyy worked his ass off this off-season with Mahomes. It doesn't make sense.

You are correct. Now I'm more confused.

I have a new one...

Patrick very much looked out of sync without Kelce. That's his security blanket, his brother, his #1 with no close #2. It's as if he was grasping for straws and not finding concrete answers. The chemistry with the other WR's was definately thrown off with the absence of Kelce. It DID happen right before the game. Dang...

I think it's gotta be a trust thing. We've seen it before. Mahomes seems to have more confidence in Rice on a scramble drill right out the gates. Mahomes was throwing to Toney several times his first week on the field.

Something has never seemed right with Moore. We all thought it might've corrected itself after the offseason, but we thought the same with Hardman and that only made limited progress (and of course Hardman was a lot more dynamic than Moore).

It's hardly settled, so let's hope when Kelce is back that'll open up some things for Moore that allow him to get into the flow of the offense.

Blasphemy alert: Simms on his podcast just said he thought Pickens was great winning contested catch balls but felt like he was having some trouble getting real separation.

How dare he besmirch the name of a future HOFer like that!

Pickens seems like a real asshole but at least he’s good at something lol he had another crazy acrobatic catch yesterday. He wasn’t able to get his feet down but even getting as far as he did while twisting his body in that way was crazy.

He prob would have made that 4th and 25 grab that Skyy dropped.

Lulz the CP excuse for "guys we like" strikes again. omg HE ALMOST MADE A TOUGH CATCH!!

I actually don’t like Pickens. As I said, he comes off as a major douche.

But I can’t deny that he does seem very talented at making contested, acrobatic catches. He’s shown potential, unlike Moore who has shown nothing.

It’s evident that you didn’t see that grab yesterday. If you did you’d just be agreeing that it was nasty.

Just looked it up and Pickens is 6’3”. He definitely would have made that 4th and 25 catch as well as the 3rd down ball that hit Skyy on the finger tips. He wouldn’t even have needed to leave his feet.

I prefer results. A Patriot clown made a nice sideline grab, didn't get the 2nd foot down on 4th down, and the team lost....

LMAO Yeah, Pickens is already proving himself a major headache. Don't know if he would've worked out here now either, TBH. From what I'm reading from Steelers fans this morning he gives noticably less effort when he's not the primary read on the play. That just won't work when Kelce is going to be the main guy. He's already showing the horrible attitude during adversity as well. Maybe Reid and Mahomes could've eventually worked that out of him, maybe not.

I am beginning to think a key criteria moving forward is that WRs have high football IQ. It’s early but skyy just hasn’t demonstrated that feel for the game… yet. Even makes you nervous when guys like James are crossing up routes. That’s what I find intriguing about rashee and Ross. I was most impressed with the way rashee moved off script.

Because you’re right that mahomes seems to show the worst habits like bailing on the pocket or his biggest frustration when he doesn’t trust his WRs to hit their spots. Even an average WR like Watson can get targets simply by doing his job.

Then you also agree that Skyy Moore’s production to this point has been unacceptable?

As a side note, that Pats receiver should have made that catch. That would have been a pretty routine toe tap sideline catch.

I'm not saying that there weren't a lot of drops, but that would have been a hell of a catch. He elevated and it was off his fingers. Not impossible, but difficult.

I realize it's sacrilegious around here but....that's on Pat.

Skyy was open alot last week. Stand in the pocket and throw the football.

Pat played a shit game last week I though from where I was sitting. It looked alot like that 2021 season where he had no confidence and was unsure what he was seeing.

Yeah - but it looks like I might finally get to start singing the praises of my boy Calvin Austin III! Welcome back, waterbug...

Y'know, a better, faster, more athletic version of the undersized guy we took in the 2nd who went 85 picks later...

que's up gif where sky drops pass on 4th and 25....

Yeah, he scrambled around and heaved it right on the money. I know he can do that better than anyone, I'm not disputing that.

Stand in the pocket and throw the football though and we dont' have to rely on that. You can't rely on it and be consistent.

McKinnon was wide open on that play. For some reason they were targeting Moore and toney too much.

They had WR's running open all over the place.

He was 8 yards short of the sticks with two DBs below him.

The throw was fine. Moore didn't track the ball as well as he could've then he gacked the catch.

Mahomes made the right play, executed it incredibly well and his teammates let him down. On THAT play I don't see much room for argument.

For the first 3 quarters? Well...that's a different animal entirely.

Felt the same. He scrambled a lot in those 2021 games I guess because he didn't trust what he was seeing.

Whatever the issue is, Kelce isn't gonna be around forever. He's gotta have someone in the WR group he can rely on. That's why I'm okay with these warts showing up now instead of later.

Meanwhile, Zay Flowers looking like an absolute dawg for BAL already.

If there's a WR we missed out on it was Romeo Doubs. He's been a really nice WR for GB. Even had 2 tuddies yesterday.

That was the smaller school WR we needed

I Did notice him bailing on a few good pockets the other night but you can't say it's on Pat when Sky is droppy mcdrop boy in key moments. I don't think that pat standing in the pocket there would have mattered either way? no?

Pat is a man he can improve just like anyone else, but imo sky has shown nothing special and he is showing he can't do his literal job wich is catch the football. Open or not he isn't helping Pat trust him.

This is like the 3rd young WR we keep telling ourselves Pat doesn't "trust".

I dunno. Seems like there may be more of an issue there.

The scrambling run around stuff is awesome and great. He's unreal at it.

But it tends to become a crutch IMO. When the offense is absolutely rolling, he's standing in the pocket throwing the football around everywhere.

Moore was in for more snaps than any other WR yet was only thrown to 3 times.

Yeah, I think they should have thrown it to Moore more often, not less.

I am not disuputing Pat can't improve. I just think Sky ain't got it.

Let's see if he settles in some when he gets kelce back and he gets used to his new tackles. I'd like to see him turn on the pocket passer when needed and not bail too early. I will say i also don't care if he is making plays though and it is working.

Why? With Skyy, less is more. IMO, the guy should not be getting the most snaps of any WR on the team. He also should not be starting.

and he dropped it 3 times...yea that makes sense

Because.....why exactly?

He dropped a couple tough catches? Shit happens.

He was open alot Thursday. Throw him the football when he's open.

If we're gonna credit Moore with 3 drops on those 3 balls, we're grading Mahomes on a curve.

I'll eat crow if Sky takes off but he had a prime time opportuity there to do so and he didn't. It's just a continuation of the same from him. Until we see otherwise he is a bust.

Because he blows and #15 does not trust him. He's also taking snaps away from others. Thats why.

Dont worry. You wont have to eat anything. Skyy is nowhere near as good as Hardman.Think about that.

Good rebuttal.

I don't think it's Pat though. He made DeMarcus Robinson of all people work. We need to draft/develop better or these players just need to get in the film room or something and figure out where Pat needs them to be.

Which current WR does Mahomes trust?

All of them. I was told we have at least 7 good WRs and such a surplus of them we had to cut other good receivers just to make room!

MVS and Watson. He did trust Toney but not sure last week helped.

I also think Rice is building good trust with Patrick

So he only trusts the two guys that ideally should be off the roster a year from now for cap savings? That doesn’t sound ideal.

We've said this for a couple years now, but Pat at a point needs to understand that he plays the game and the coaches coach it.

He doesn't decide who's running the routes and he doesn't need to worry about if they're gonna actually catch the ball.

Now IF Moore is out there ****ing routes up in practice and Mahomes has taken him out of the progression because short routes that get messed up turn into pick 6s very quickly - okay, I can handle that.

But the 'well he's worried the guy's gonna drop it' stuff - man, he's gotta let that go. Over a large enough sample size these guys will fix the glitch or hit the bench. In the interim, if they're where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be there - throw 'em the ball. If they drop it, that's on them.

Now I'm not 100% convinced Moore is where he's supposed to be. In fact I think there's a real chance he isn't. But that's a story for another day I guess. But I think that HAS to be the crux of the issue. Because Mahomes doesn't even look at him. Open or not, it doesn't matter because Mahomes just doesn't really care.

Something is there. Cause the guy is open. They had guys open everywhere.

Pat looked off to me, but apparently I'm holding him to a higher standard than I should.

Hutchinson deserves credit... he applied a lot of pressure. Mahomes did Mahomes things and avoided sacks, but he was affected.

Can you blame him? The WR's were all disasters outside of MVS and Watson.

Toney dropped the ball on 1/4 of his targets, Skyy dropped passes and Richie James wasn't running routes correctly.

If MVS and Watson are the only two he trusts, they might want to target them more than 6 times combined in a game. What did MVS have, 2 targets all game?