Didn't they tag Sneed last year? I was hoping he would rework that deal and stay with the team. He didn't. Maybe this is a means of holding on to him in an effort to get something back? I don't think tagging him means he will be on the team.

Oh. Yeah my point was that we can afford to pay Smith because we won't be paying Kelce, Thuney, and Taylor very soon.

So, I was being positive.

Man we missed Snead this year, especially in the playoffs. Snead was a true alpha shutdown corner w/ the Chiefs, McDuffie got picked on quite a bit in the playoffs.

you know who else really missed SneEd this season?

the team that traded for him and paid him big money, since he was on IR.

John Dorsey is so great that as soon as we let him go he immediately revamped the roster and created a perennial contender out of ....****checks notes****... absolutely nobody.

My view was absolutely under no circumstances pay both Creed AND Smith. I realize you aren't responding to me but from my view obviously I am going to be disappointed. No goal posts being moved for me.

I said what I wanted them to do and they didn't do it. Me then chanting kumbaya would not be genuine.

"You are being unreasonable and a bad fan because you have an opinion different than mine. This makes you stupid." - Twisted Chief

I really don't think they will do anything with Thuney. I mean, he's turning 33 this season. They have the youth to move on from him. I don't think it makes sense from a cap perspective. I also really don't think he's going to play much longer. Hell, he might hang them up after this one.

If they do anything with his contract, I'd expect them to add a void year and push some money off to a bonus that can spread out his hit to create cap space more so than I expect them to add more playing years.

GIVE TREY SMITH THE FARM. EVEN IF IT MEANS WE LOSE MAHOMES.

WE MUST KEEO TREY SMJTH

Tag and trade would be good even if it’s a 5th or something.

It's an Orlando Brown Jr. situation except at OG. PFF had them rated very similar except Orlando was a smidge better in the passing game and Trey is the opposite. On the same note that's how we got Jawan Taylor and he's pretty terrible, worse than Orlando.

We're going to get Mahomes killed any way you slice it and pay a mint for average at best pass protection in the meantime. Brutal.

5 years, 90 million, 36 million guaranteed

Yes, that is probably the most realistic answer at LT… to sign Robinson or Jackson.

The Chiefs are probably going to have to overpay either player, relative to their talent… but both would provide something the Chiefs lacked last year… an actual left tackle playing the left tackle position.

Well, that's what free agency IS.

You absolutely overpay, especially at premium positions, for NFL proven experience.

It's the cost of winning. We haven't been anywhere within striking distance of a true top tier LT to draft in almost a decade. When we WERE, we had a #1 overall manning the position.

You and the weak chinned guy make solid points.

Always mortgage the future for a guard, or both. Its the most impactful position in sports

i dont see an issue as long as we don't **** with thuney's contract and add playing years to it. we are just replacing thuney's money with trey's, assuming a deal gets done.

no deal? a tag/trade is a great outcome. only possible bad scenario here is him somehow playing on the tag which would be no bueno. but i do not believe for a second veach plays this game unless he's certain the dice won't be rolling that way.

What about non-premium positions? Asking for a friend.

Might be a non-premium position, but he was the best player in the entire group of free agents. So there's that.

What would YOU do with that money King?

Let's hear it. What would be your approach to the offseason?

So rule of thumb: premium or non premium position, just over pay them. Got it.

This is basically where I’m at.

I assume we’re moving on from one expensive contract to another so that we aren’t replacing even more OL starters over this year and next.

Have to assume either a deal gets done with Smith or a trade. Can’t see them taking this step if there’s any risk of him playing on the tag.

What made him someone we have to retain NOW?

If he wasn't someone we had to retain last off-season?

Let's set aside for the moment the conversation regarding plowing this much capital into the least important positions on the entire offense. If he's now someone you re-set the market to retain, coming off a season where he looked, at best, the same as he's looked essentially his entire career (I think he regressed in some ways), why did you not get this deal done last season?

Am I supposed to believe that a guy sitting on a 5th rounders weekly game check isn't going to see a chance to get a $25 million check the moment he puts pen to paper and say "nah". Because if he was this important to us NOW, he should've been a guy we were willing to give that Robert Hunt contract to last offseason with a $25 million signing bonus and $60+ million guaranteed.

And it would've been a hell of a lot cheaper than it's going to be now.

This is a panic, emotion driven decision. Coming off a Super Bowl win last season and riding that high, the organization could be strictly rational and say "Creed is our guy on the IOL long-term".

But the calculus changed when they lost the SB. And their response is to keep a guy who got his ass kicked in said SB and who's retention doesn't do anything to address the primary problem on the unit that was roundly criticized all season.

Again, setting aside the 'in a vacuum' argument and speaking specifically to this organization -- they're acting irrationally in relation to their own behavior over the last 12 months.

They’ll have to overpay in fa because they couldn’t draft and or develop a LT

Yup, that's my point! You're such a disingenuous bundle of sticks it's impossible to have a discussion with you.

He might not play a premium position, but he was THE premium player of this free agency class. You can not like it while at least acknowledging that. But when you want to make it sound like the dumbest move evarrr there's no room for nuance.

I'll wait and see how it plays out, but Smith was not great this year. Perhaps the front office is privy to information that makes them believe that this subpar season won't be repeated.

However, the strength of the franchise is #15. Keeping him upright, healthy, and giving him time to work has to be the priority. We had our fun making him throw to gas station attendants and lean on the defense to win a Superbowl, and we just got him again with the joke that SOMEONE obviously thinks is hilarious, sending him against a vicious d line with no protection in the Superbowl and getting blown out again. That joke has run its course.

So, I don't really care how much is spent, as long as a competent offensive line is put out there to protect our half billion dollar quarterback that has proven to be an explosive play factory if he's given actual starting talent to work with.

Maybe we give up more points defensively, but this offense needs to get back to terrifying people.

Remember when RB’s didn’t have much value anymore and weren’t looked at as guys you want pay?

How’d that work with Josh Jacobs, Derrick Henry or…Saquon Barkley? Did Saquon matter?

There are people who think Nick Bolton has immense value despite not being a premium position. Same with Justin Reid.

Landon Dickerson was also very important and essentially shut down Chris Jones. You think that’s not valuable because he’s a G?

Just stack as many good players as you can and keep going after positional value.

Position value relative to other positions.

And I supported Veach when he went after Josh Jacobs. Would have went after Henry too. I value RB higher than guard. Compare the contracts to what Trey is getting on the franchise tag and it's not even close. 2 years 16 mil vs 1 year 23 mil. So yeah I don't really see the point of bringing up those RBs when I think most people value an elite RB higher than an elite guard.

And if the roster was elite at damn near every position like the eagles, no one would care about this franchise tag. It's only an issue because there are other holes on the roster including a canyon at LT, and giving a guard 23mil guaranteed for this one year may impact how aggressive you can be filling those holes.

I think the Chiefs are factoring a couple other bits of information.

1) They had a lot of young lineman drafted or on the team last year. Some of who were talked about stepping in for Trey. Obvious after the year working with them they are probably not comfortable with that idea. Maybe they do not want to move Kingsley off of the tackle position.
2) The cap went up.
3) The FA class

307 million in 2026 says, meh

If you want top tier FA, you will be overpaying.

It's that simple.

You're focused on the wrong things.

You're trying to play checkers. This is chess.

We didn't mortgage the future.

Good gods some of you guys are stupid.

We don’t know the full plan yet.

I can’t see overreacting to this positively or negatively.

The goal is always to put the best team on the field possible. So if you have a few premium positions on cheap deals, you can pay some nonpremium positions. You just need to make sure you have the money to pay Rice ,Worthy, Karloftus, and/or McDuffie when due. It is not like they have a FA this year to get in a bidding war over. Nor do they want to give a FA a massive long term deal and cut into the cap room to pay one of a young stars. At present they have not given Trey a long term deal.

It’s tongue in cheek friend. I know we didn’t “mortgage the future”. Calma

I think Veach knows he's going to deal him.

I think team constructions is very important to Veach, and while you could justify keeping him and square with the realities of the draft and free agency THIS YEAR, long term, the team is better off getting a some draft capital (I assume people will be pissed that its not enough) and then extend Thuney for a few years to free up cap space. I don't think you can keep Thuney without extending him, pay Creed, Smith, and Taylor what they demand, and really feel like you did enough to have a different outcome.

For example, I think Veach would feel better with a line that had Jackson (FA), Thuney, Creed, Kingsley/Morris, and Taylor doing into next season, than Ginat ? at LT. They have to address the LT situation, there is no way around it.

Elite healthy RBs have always mattered.

Most intelligent fans know that.

Most elite RBs have short careers and guaranteeing them big contracts is risky even by NFL standards and JAG RBs can usually be had cheap.

Saquon was a huge payoff but he's had a huge injury history as any fantasy football fan knows. Henry is a freak of nature even by NFL standards.

You listed a few RB's that bucked the trend.

So the Chiefs tied up 23 million dollars of cap space to try to get a 3rd round pick and probably lose the rest of their FA's?

Yea don't buy that.

Loading up the right side for when Mahomes starts throwing left handed.

Huh?

They'd make the same moves required to fit him in that they could make to still have cap space even with him.

In the rollover era, it really doesn't matter. Free up as much as you can possibly free up every time. If you don't spend it, it rolls over to the following season and pays for the money you moved into that year.

If the Chiefs can move $50 million in cap space, they should. Regardless of what happens with Smith. And that would still leave plenty of space to work the market both with your own FAs and outside FAs.

Thats more of an excuse than a real reason. They can make it work.

And I think he could net a 2nd. Maybe not - they may have to settle for a 3rd. But a second would be plenty possible.

I thought I read somewhere that even if we trade Smith, the cap hit will still sting. Does anyone know what that looks like? The Patriots and Bears would love to have Smith - would be nice to get a mid-round pick for him.

They tagged him. Any team signing him will have to give him a new deal. The cap hit for the Chiefs would be negligible, I believe.

Exactly.

And they could trade him before the start of free agency.

Look, if Chicago really wants him, they have picks 39 and 41. Getting one of those would be huge in how this draft board is going to set up.

Which might cost us our 4th or maybe a 3rd or 4th next season.

We may not be able to get 41 straight across for Smith -- but it gets us in the door. We could easily get something figured out there prior to FA.

Again -- I've never said Smith isn't a very good player. I only think we're overcommitting resources to the IOL and I think he's the wrong TYPE of really very good player.

He has value in the league. A pretty fair amount of it, IMO.

I still hope we can get a trade worked out though I do think I'm using some galaxy brain, 5d chess shit to get there. It seems really likely that this is just a prelude to a LTC.

I mean lets presume for the sake of argument that we can make it work for Smith and some change for 41. And then to address the 'some change' side of it, we'll even presume that Alaric Jackson gets the same kind of contract that Smith gets. I don't know what the 'change' is but I don't think Jackson will make the same as Smith so we'll try to use those to wash each other out.

I mean isn't Trey Smith for Alaric Jackson and Donovan Jackson a REALLY good trade return for us? Or Wyatt Millum? Those are both guys who could maybe play OT but could almost certainly slide inside and be REALLY good OGs, and guys who should excel in pass pro to a greater degree than Smith.
And I think that's a fairly conservative approach to calculating the return.

I just think we're blowing past the opportunity cost really quickly because he's already a Chief. And if he weren't, this wouldn't even be a close question for us.

Alaric Jackson just signed. That possibility is gone.

The Rams just signed Alaric Jackson

But yeah, Smith and a 3rd/4th for 41 I'd be on like flies on shit.

Well poop.

Cam Robinson then.

**** you, Rams.

Never wanted Jackson.

Take my word for it. No need to check my posting history.

He's terrible. Rams overpaid.

I just read that Jackson auditioned for the role of Tattoo on the new Fantasy Island mini-series for Amazon. He was turned down because his arms are too short to point at “the plane”. We dodged a bullet, fellas.

so it's logical to secure a really good guard when there's no guarantee that we will be able to get a LT.

This is not a great year to try and get one from what it sounds like.

So who's up, Ronnie Stanley?

The top 2 free agent LT's are going to cost a lot

HE ****ING SUCKS BECAUSE HE'S NOT GOING TO BE A CHIEF!

Yeah, I mean I was definitely not saying I would gladly pay $20 million a year for him, and since he stayed with the Rams for $19 million I actually realized he is the worse human being who ever lived.

We really lucked out on that one.

This is the kind of info I come to CP for.

Thank you, sir!

Arms that short you know there is masseuse drama

Jackson’s arms are shorter than Chris Jones’s dick

I'd rather have Tyson Jackson as LT.

Non-Exclusive tag for Smith

As are most things on God’s green earth

I’d rather have Jackson Mahomes at LT!

I wonder how badly the Bears want Smith?

Would they send us #10 for Smith and #31?

In this class, #10 would be even more valuable than normal I’d think. Can’t imagine that would be on the table.

According to the draft value chart, that would mean Smith is worth approximately pick 26.

Cant see any team having that type of value on him.

I've used the Rich Hill chart almost exclusively for years; it seems to fit more accurately. That one puts it at #36.

A bottom of 1/high 2 value doesn't seem that far off if they see him as elite, though not many guards traded in the annals. Something to think about.

The Bears did trade a 2nd for Chase Claypool. Many teams have thrown 2nds away on trades.

I remember the Bills trading Cordy Glenn's broken ass in a 1st round pick swap plus to Cincinnati.

So maybe it's not impossible but you might be right that it's not rich enough to get us up there.

I’d rather have Michael Jackson at LT

Just get pick 41 and call it a day

No one is trading a first rounder or a high second rounder for Smith. I think a best case, maybe close to a minor miracle, would be a mid-2nd rounder. I think the more likely scenario with the Bears or Patriots is swapping pick positioning so that we move up in some of the rounds that we are in (but not the first) without netting any new picks or a late round one.

he had an amazing kick step

I wouldn't be so sure.

The FA market isn't just bad for us. The Bears need OLine help badly. They have 78M in cap space and picks. 10, 39, 41, 72, 149, 197, 235, and 242. They can trade for Smith and still have a full compliment of draft picks. They have absolutling nothing going on at guard.

Pick 41 and a day 3 swap or two would make Veach look like a genius. Like the Sneed trade last year the tag doesn't guarantee Trey Smith will be playing in a Chiefs uniform next year. I do recall they tried to work out a deal with Sneed as well before giving him permission to talk to other teams.

New idea... Send Smith to Chicago for Braxton Jones and a swap of 63 for 41. Basically equivalent to getting their 3rd but nobody loses a draft pick.

Poles wants competition at LT at minimum and they are in a prime spot to take Simmons at #10. Jones is far better than anyone on the market, he's just been knicked up a bit the last couple of seasons.

Gotta take a shot somehow. **** it.

Surely unlikely they'd move off a very solid and young LT for the draft gamble of another one? Even if they get Smith. But man, I'd take it!

The backup LT for the Bears played really well the last five games of the season and Jones is in his contract year. Their RG is a FA and was garbage last year. It's a perfect scenario for a trade.

In.

I'm not sure we could get that swap made as well. If anything I wonder if we wouldn't have to sweeten the pot a bit given that Jones has a cheap year of control in 2025.

But yeah, I'm doing that in a heartbeat and giving him a 5 year extension without blinking.

**** yeah. In a heartbeat.

And it's plausible.

See, Balto, this is how you do it.

That would be a pretty Veachy move no doubt. I don’t think they actually plan to move on from Trey, but if they did, I love getting a proven commodity.

What if we had to give our 4th rather than get a pick swap?

Our 3rd?

I think I'm probably still in either way. But at a point you do need to take some of the injury issues into account.

That's one thing we really haven't dealt with much in the Mahomes era -- expensive guys being injured.