Maybe things didn't turn out the way that Reid expected with Dorsey. Plenty of buffer between Dorsey and Reid in Green Bay. Reid got Dorsey the job so maybe he expected Dorsey to do what he wanted when it came to the important stuff. Dorsey expected to have the power of a GM since he had the title of GM. Power clashes change things in a hurry even if people are friends. I can't believe people can look at the weird way this all shook out and claim there was nothing to it. It was all just one big coincidence and Reid was simply a bystander. It doesn't matter than Reid could have saved Dorsey's job by refusing to sign his new contract. Super friend Reid just kept his eyes down and fingers in his ears while his friend lost his job.

At the very least, Andy Reid was ok with the firing of his friend. Why did Reid suddenly not care that Dorsey was being fired? Reid had to be pissed at Dorsey for something or he would have saved Dorsey's job.

More speculation that has been refuted time and time again by national and local writers.

Stop it.

a) Did NOT see that coming.

b) So exciting!zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Then renounce your fandom, AGAIN, and go the **** away.

No one would miss your stupid ass.

You bring absolutely nothing to this forum.

Aw honey, is your tampon giving you the toxic shock again? You should probably change that thing.

Give me Carl Peterson negotiating skills and the last few years of eye for talent, we could go some where. Remains to be seen on both accounts.

It's all bullshit from the King Factory of Bullshit.

You'll get a nice little yes man MORE than willing to sign off on every dumbass move Reid can dream up, while Clark gets a genteel little feller who won't dare address him with such brash language as his replacement!

This team is owned and run by pussies so ****ing pathetic, even a two foot wop bitch like McCloud could kick their asses, and that's REALLY saying something.

JFC you are making no sense.

Clark walked in and ****ing fired the guy and he supposedly had no idea it was coming and he's a pussy?

Agreed, I was being facetious as the very first suggestion I saw in the big Dorsey thread suggested Veach.

I am all for continuity, it is how things work out long term from my experience.

He's a genteel little shitheel at best. I hate that entire ****ing family, and wouldn't shed one ****ing tear if they all fell over dead tomorrow.

All BS aside, I think it's very concerning that we fired one of the league's better executives without any warning and after letting the best replacement candidate go just months earlier, with the owner claiming it was about money/contract extension.

That would make anyone concerned about the direction of the team. What teams let quality executives go over money? What teams fire GMs in the middle of the summer? This is Bills/Browns type of stuff, not what we aspire to.

We can all hope that Veach doesn't turn out to be a Reid stooge, and turns out to be a great executive but this situation played out pretty similarly in Philadelphia after Reid's team fell off a cliff following the Super Bowl and it didn't end well. In Reid usual fashion he was not good enough to get over the hump, but not bad enough to get fired and it took 5 or 6 more years to play out.

Hopefully that scenario isn't going to play out here.

playing devil's advocate: if you care more about dress code or communication than results, that could make you a pussy in some people's eyes

At least this new guy will keep his office clean and pick up a discarded candy wrapper. Standards must be kept!

I'm not sure a renegotiation was even doable...if Maclin takes say $8 mil...and wipes the $2.6 in dead money, it's still $5.4 more against the cap THIS year. They didn't have it...they were at $3.5

I seriously doubt Maclin would have accepted $6 million from KC. His salary was $12.4 million this year..so they DID save almost $10 million.


Not sure how his deal will be structured but Forbes had the #10 pick slated at $4+ million for 2017.

Well..Reid has a lot of power. He always said Dorsey handles the business side...unless it hangs him out to dry. He's a player's coach and to have his hand-picked WR dumped a week after his wedding kind of clowns him.

I would understand Reid being pissed if he was out of the loop on that particular situation...and wasn't at least consulted on it.

All BS aside...

YA' THINK?!? LMAO

The move is just about as Amateur Hour as anything I've ever seen the Chiefs do, and I believe we ALL have seen the Chiefs perform THAT trick with regularity over the course of DECADES.

It's in the blood of that family, and its absolutely one( if not the only reason needed )more prime example of why absentee ownership is a horrible practice.

If things were iffy between them then Clark should have done this analysis before Ballard left. I can't believe it was all roses before he left and then over a few months it went from loving the guy to firing him. So if Clark had issues, this epic audit of the team should have happened before your #2 got job offers.

This is not about putting down Veach or predicting doom. But to me if the sequence of events is true, then Clark did this wrong. I don't know what happens with Ballard, but the timing by Clark is a mistake on his part. Doesn't even matter who turns out best, the fact that he didn't give himself a choice is poor management.

I don't think that's what it was.

I think Clark realizes what was going on with pioli and how much a control freak the guy was and how it negatively effected the organization. maybe even after the fact.

Then he sees Dorsey drafting guys early just to cut them, cutting vets a coupe yards after paying them big, drafting guys no one knew about, firing front office guys, cutting a player by voice mail, etc... And decides he's not going to let out get to that point again. Good or bad? We will see.

But he obviously had the best in mind when he did it.

I agree with this, although I have had to fire people and even for a lesser job its not easy...but I mean like RIGHT before trainign camp?

come on man!

Once again, I think it was a difficult reconciliation. As someone that as been put in that type of situation, I can sympathize.

Once again, Dorsey did a great job with talent but not so great with communication and management. That became ever more apparent after Ballard left and even more so after the botched releases of Howard and Maclin.

It is what it is. Now, it's time to move on.

I'll have you know I worked quite diligently to get my Education degree at KU.

On a related note, you're absolutely correct.

this

and your point?

You're hilarious man. Clark Hunt fired Carl Peterson, then went out and got Pioli, who was thought to be the best GM candidate out there. Then he fired Pioli and went out and got the perceived best coach and GM available. Now, because he fired Dorsey he is a horrible, absentee owner?? Please. Hunt has been doing whatever he could do bring a championship to KC. If you can't see that, then you are just letting your frustrations blind you from the truth.

I think people are latching on to dress code but what Clark didn't like was Dorsey's style. I've been in a similar situation before. I was part of a leadership team of a political organization and our style was so different than what they were used to it created massive problems despite everything we accomplished was overly sucessful.

When I read about Dorsey's behavior, it takes me back to those days. Some people just can't handle it. They want process and predictability. Frankly Clark likely often was caught of gurard by a Dorsey decesion. But in Dorsey's mind if Clark wanted to know everything he needs to be their on a daily basis. If he's around nothing would suprise him.

There are some people in this world that fu@king hate process and meeting about future meetings. I think that was Dorsey. He was the GM, and when he made a decision he acted. It's not a corporate style that would work with Clark. I think it's unfortunate more than anything.

So is Dorsey free to take other job or does he just sit and get paid to do nothing the rest of his contract?


Does Clark owe him money if he takes another job?


Teams have got to think he is prime candidate if they aren't all ready happy with their own GM so I'd think he is on the for front and a team may want snag him up sooner than later.


Or does he just vy his time to go to Green Bay?

Not questioning the validity but how do you know stuff like this?

I think Andy's problem in Philly was that he had dual roles as coach and GM. That's not the case here. Nor will it be with Veach.

Some people are going to bitch no matter what. Especially when they take every move and put it in a silo. If Clark were hands off in any way Carl would still be the GM here.

This all day long. People can bitch about Clark Hunt all they want and say that he doesn't care, but the evidence says that all he cares about is winning.

After each draft selection on draft day, the Chiefs scouts each have a press conference in which they discuss the player that was just drafted.

Videos are posted on Chiefs.com.

Based on the reports we've seen and the otherwise ill-advised timing of the move (with respect to Ballard's departure), I think this is the most plausible summary of what happened. We can only hope that Clark is willing to set a limit on his urge to control the team, though - I'd hate for him to become one of those owners that makes a habit of driving away talented front office people.

I don't think he made a power play to be rid of Dorsey
It was a power play to give Veach the job after Hunt canned Dorsey.

That's what they keep telling us, but the same thing happened in Philly. They elevated one of Reid's people to GM, but Reid was still holding all the power, and the team never really contended again.

They brought in Jeff Garcia, AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb, Michael Vick, Vince Young, Nick Foles, etc., trying to find someone to lead the offense, never developing a QB again.

They hit on Jackson and McCoy, but drafted few other players of any consequence. Maclin was the only first rounder that worked out for the rest of Reid's tenure.

I just think the alarm bells should be ringing when someone with a pretty good record in the draft is pushed out, leaving us with someone who has a mostly negative one in Reid, and someone in Veach who we are hoping may one day develop into what Dorsey already was.

Why did ownership feel this would strengthen the franchise and bring us closer to a Super Bowl? Anybody's guess.

What moves were made between Ballard leaving and Dorsey being fired that were disastrous?

More horsehit.

Reid took over the personnel reigns in 2001. The list of players that were drafted is long and impressive, from Brian Westbrook to LeSean McCoy, Fletcher Cox, DeSean Jackson and on and on and on.

Stop trying to rewrite the past.

You really need to use Google to read every article regarding this situation instead of constantly asking questions.

It's not that hard.

The decision is too important for the stuff after Ballard to be last straw. If you are even close to last straw you make the audit before Ballard leaves.

Like you said though, it is what it is. At least Veach seems to have real potential.

I may be wrong but I think 4 Klosterman, Steadman, Schaaf and Peterson. Klosterman was hired away from LA Chargers of old AFL to run Hunts Dallas Texans' He along with Loyd Wells are the Architects of the SB winning Chiefs. They alone lured the likes of Taylor, Buchanan, Bell and Garrett away from the NFL. He left after our Super Bowl win to go back west. His parting shot when asked by the news media how he liked his stay in KC, I felt like I was in Purgatory it sure wasn't heaven nor was it hell. I remember my Dad hated trhe prick after that.

Too bad you lost Chris Ballard to the Colts. He seemed top notch.

Willingness to act should not be mistaken for wisdom.

The Chiefs are now on their 4th GM in 10 years since Lamar Hunt passed. This is not one of the hallmarks of a well-run franchise.

Of the teams that have won the Super Bowl in seasons following Lamar Hunt's passing, here's how many GMs each team has hired in the last 10 years:

New England - 0
Denver - 2
Seattle - 1
Baltimore - 0
New York Giants - 1
Green Bay - 0
New Orleans - 0
Pittsburgh - 0

The Chiefs have had more GMs in the last 10 years than all the Super Bowl winners over that time have hired, combined.

Frequently changing executives is a mark of instability, not of prescient leadership.

Prescient means the ability to know what might or will happen in the future, is how you meant to use it?

To lead with foresight, to lead with a plan that anticipates the future, rather than being reactionary. In this case, an ability to see who's going to perform well as a GM. The best run teams have this sort of leadership, which is why they do not change GMs very often.

Denver is the only team that's won the super bowl in the last 10 years that's had more than 2 GMs over that time. Clark has now had 4 GMs serve him in that span. (Not to mention 4 head coaches)

Hopefully he's got this one right, because churn at the top is not the sign of a successful organization.

Who?

Except for the fact that the organization HAS seen more success with each successive regime change.

Clark Hunt didn't make a mistake in firing Peterson and Edwards. He didn't make a mistake in firing Haley, Pioli and Crennel.

It's yet to be seen if he made a mistake firing Dorsey but based on precedence, it's unlikely to be a mistake, either.

I agree completely. I was about to respond. But your response said just what I would have said. Now if Veach drafts like ElFraud and takes the Chiefs back to the gutter while Dorsey goes to another team and build a dynasty, then this was a horrible move. But we just have to let it play out. Hopefully, Veach will pick up where Dorsey left off and will continue to build a deep and dangerous team that will contend for the Superbowl year in and year out.

Cochise is a butt****ing moron.

Ka'do's.

Boy, that Clark sure is aces at firing. Perhaps one day, his hiring talent will catch up!

Idiots.

He was the only person in the Hunt family, and probably the entire world, that wanted Scott Pioli to stay. That should tell us something.

Qft

It should tell you that Clark knows his shit.

Pioli went to 3 Super Bowls in New England and was the Executive of the Year several times, hired and fired by the Chiefs, only to go to the Super Bowl with the Falcons after running their draft for two seasons.

Pioli may have been a disaster in terms of hiring a coaching staff and running a front office but he definitely knows player personnel.

One has to wonder at this point how much Hunt wanted Ballard. I keep reading that Ballard was the glue and once he left the Dorsey situation fell apart, but if that's the case why wouldn't Clark have just gotten rid of Dorsey and given the job to Ballard in the first place?

No idea how Veach will do. One thing Clark has been consistent on is hiring a strong evaluator to run a managerial job. Neither Pioli or Dorsey were exceptional communicators. Anecdotally, it sounds like Veach at least has that going for him. Whether that leads to a better management style for such a young guy remains to be seen. He learned under Reid so I would expect a very organized and detailed style...

Peeholi doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. John Baldwin? Tyson ****ing Jackson?

Oh yeah, he was a ****ing genius!

Anyone not completely incompetent could make the Berry and Houston picks. There is NO special skill or talent on his part with those picks.

None.

At.

All.

That his buddy Dimitrioff in Atalanta gave him a glorified pencil-pushing gig after being such a COLOSSAL **** up in KC means absolutely nothing.
And that you would revise history and use this absolute ****ing clown to prop up Clark Hunt, just goes to show how mind-bendingly far you've fallen down the rabbit hole to complete ****ing insanity.

:facepalm:


Hey Dumb****, Pioli has run the drafts the past two seasons in Atlanta. He's drafted some damn good players, all of whom helped them reach the Super Bowl after the 2016 season.

He knows personnel.

And you're nothing than a moronic blowhard that knows absolutely nothing about the NFL.

Sure............

Uh huh.

It's a combination of things with some guys. I believe Pioli is one of those Peter Principle guys who does OK if he stays in his lane, but was given way too much power here. Letting him hire the coaches and have final say on the roster and coaching staff were not wise. Sticking him in a room and telling him to watch film on guys that the coaches actually want and will fit their scheme would have been wiser. He should never be the face of a franchise. That's why I think Hunt made sure the second time around to make sure the football coach reported directly to him and had had final say on his staff. The whole Pioli hiring coordinators for Haley thing was a joke.

But Pioli is likely only good at evaluating certain positions as well. You listed some of his failures, but his biggest one no doubt was having no clue what to do at the QB position. I think he saw Tom Brady and felt that if you take any hard working QB, he could turn him into an all pro. Instead we got the Cassel's and Stanzi's of the world. Certainly having Matty Ice being coached by Shanarat Jr makes the Falcons a much better situation to be in, and that kudos goes to Dimitrioff. But Pioli is probably in his lane over there helping to fill out the roster as a subordinate...

I agree with every word of this.

This is really not true. Nearly every GM, unless they're picking in the Top 5 (and even then, it's often screwed up), has difficulty identifying college kids that can become Franchise QB's.

Furthermore, just take a look at the Falcons past two drafts under Pioli. There's a lot of Super Bowl contributors.

2015:
#8: Vic Beasley, DE, Clemson
#42: Jalen Collins, CB, LSU
#73: Tevin Coleman, RB, Indiana
#107: Justin Hardy, WR, ECU
#137: Grady Jarrett, DT, Clemson
#225: Jake Rodgers, OL, Eastern Washington

2016:
SS Keanu Neal, Florida
OLB Deion Jones, LSU
TE Austin Hooper, Stanford
OLB De'Vondre Campbell, Minnesota
OL Wes Schweitzer, San Jose St.
WR/KR Devin Fuller, UCLA


While I agree that he wasn't a "Good GM", he's a damn fine personnel man.

In the video that we drafted Mahomes, they cut to the war room and the first guy John Dorsey shakes hands with is Brett Veach. Then the awkward Clark Hunt hand shake to fist bump.

Isn't that some shit? Talk about foreshadowing.

That's prescience.

Wanted Pioli to stay? What the hell are you talking about?

He wanted to make a Reid/Pioli relationship work. I think he got to be pretty good friends with Fat Scott.

Lucky for us Reid just said, "No, Clark. Do it the right way."

It was widely reported at the time that everyone in the ownership group wanted to fire Pioli except Clark.

Clark wanted to keep Scott Pioli, but for some reason put Dorsey out on his ear in the middle of the summer, when he'd let Dorsey run the team's draft - including selecting a QBOTF and trading next year's first round pick away - just 2 months earlier.

He wanted that moron to stay? Clark went on TV and apologized that fans and swore he would right the ship with a new coach and GM but he really wanted Pioli to stay?

Clark was giving Pioli a pass on his total failure? With what happend recently I doubt that's true.

By whom?

This has about as much credibility as Marty Schottenheimer's waitress girlfriend.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/20480591/...-power-from-gm

Many fans want Pioli gone. Hunt said he won't decide on Pioli's future until he selects the new Kansas City Chiefs head coach, which he hopes will be in a matter of days. But Hunt made clear Monday that it was he, not Pioli, who decided to fire head coach Romeo Crennel after the team ended 2-14 and clinched the first pick in the NFL draft.

"It was my decision, although it was one that Scott agreed with as well," Hunt said. He also made clear that he, not Pioli, would select Crennel's replacement.

"We are going to have a search committee. I am not going into the dynamics of the search committee," Hunt said, adding it would have "internal and external" members. "We are very well organized". He said it would be "a very efficient and thorough search," that he hopes to complete in a matter of days, and certainly within two weeks.

But two decisions by Hunt could perhaps reveal more about Pioli's future in Kansas City than anything else. For the first time in franchise history, Hunt said the coach will report to the owner rather than the general manager. Hunt did not reveal how he would referee disagreements between his general manager and coach.

And when it came time to tell the players about Crennel's firing, Hunt let Crennel first break the news, and then he spoke. Pioli wasn't in the room and has made no public comments this week. Hunt said he has much love, admiration and affection for Crennel. He said firing Crennel was a touch decision, but the NFL is a performance-based business. And his next comments were perhaps ominous for Pioli's future in Kansas City.

"Nobody gets a passing grade on the way the team performed this year," Hunt said. "And that includes Scott, and he knows that. And he takes responsibility for it."

Some believe Hunt hasn't dismissed Pioli yet because they are working out a severance deal, but Pioli's departure will come by Feb. 1.

You really think Pioli has called the personnel shots over Dimitroff these last 2 drafts ? :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's right you ****ing quack.

Here's a link, you butt****ing moron. Arthur Blank removed Dimitroff from the draft and personnel decisions after the 2014 season.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/a...tant-gm-010715

The changes appear to weaken the authority of Dimitroff, whose future was left in doubt by owner Arthur Blank at the news conference to announce Smith’s firing. Blank said Wednesday the new coach and Dimitroff "will report separately to me."

"After reviewing all of our options — internally and externally — I have no reservations that this is the best approach to setting up our player personnel groups for future success," Blank said in a statement released by the team.

"It maximizes the talents of Scott, allows for more time and focus on all areas of our football operations groups managed by Thomas, and is in line with other player personnel groups in the league."

http://icons.iconarchive.com/icons/f.../duck-icon.png

Good Luck, according to all here, You'll need it. Tear it up, man.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/...-to-believe-me

I know most on here hate AP, but this is a story that a guy wrote up that is actually quite believable.. I won't try to explain it all here, but if you believe this, then it has the answer to what happened with Dorsey. Straight from Dorsey's mouth.

According to this, Dorsey asked Hunt for an out to go to GB in his next contract. Apparently, Clark wasn't having it, and basically just made the choice to go in a different direction right then and there.

This makes a great deal of sense. Hunt had previously publically said he wanted to extend Dorsey's contract. Dorsey has made some great draft choices and some money management mis-steps but nothing had really changed between Hunt's statements and the firing. Maclin's release may not have been handled the best but it really didn't rank as a firing offense. And money made no sense for a contract sticking point. Hunt really wouldn't renew Dorsey's contract over a few hundred thousand dollars?

I can absolutely see Hunt refusing to grant an out to another team and that being a deal breaker. Of all of the rumors, suggestions and theories, this makes the most sense. Admittedly, this could be a load of crap. Maybe Hunt didn't want to pay the extra money or he didn't like Dorsey's style. I wasn't there and I don't know. But Occam's Razor suggests this is the most likely reason.

And hunt had said he wants continuity, chiefs people, family .

No reason to prolong it if there is a chance of him leaving.

Yeah...that didnt happen.

You really think a plumber is going to be rummaging through Dorsey's desk/personal files and sharing the photos...let alone have access to it? One of which has part of the photo blurred out? That a writer for AP would just stumble on the rare chance of his boss's friend having insider info?

What are the odds?

Even it it were true...that plumber is now fired...but he isn't because he never existed.

Hard to say. I just look at it like, why would the guy take the time to write such a thorough story if it were not true? Depends on the type of guy that you are, I suppose.

Considering the timing of the firing, this reason does make quite a bit of sense. If Hunt thought he was only extending Dorsey just so he can leave next January, I would want to fire him now too. Get the ball rolling early and hire a GM who is totally loyal to your franchise.

He went out of his was to preface the article with "you can believe it or not"...sounded like clickbait to me. Dorsey airing his dirty laundry to a plumber doesnt sound realistic.

Dorsey airing his dirty laundry to a plumber may not be realistic but Dorsey wanting an out to go to Green Bay is. Not to say that Dorsey would exercise the option but I could see Dorsey wanting the option and Hunt not wanting to extend the option.

I won't plant my flag and die on this story being absolutely true but I do believe this is the most likely reason for the extension talks breaking down irrespective of the veracity of this plumber's story.

Yes, I agree.

Now, when the news that Dorsey was fired hit, I immediately said that an Escape Clause was a factor, if not the determining factor. Lots of people argued against it but I still think that it played into the overall decision.

As far this "plumber", what the hell is he doing rummaging around in Dorsey's files? Even more to the point, why in the world would Dorsey have actual hard copy files in a desk drawer at home?

This is 2017, people. Everything is electronic.

That alone negates this story.

I wouldn't assume that. There was actually a picture that I saw earlier this offseason of Dorsey in his office where you could see binders in the background that were labeled.

Here it is:
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wE6h...13/dorsey1.jpg

The audacity... to wear a sweatshirt and a baseball cap in the office. Jackets and ties are where championships lie.

A binder? Sure, okay. Those aren't "files in a drawer".

Further, why would he have files for 2018 at home and at One Arrowhead Drive?

Does he waste time having someone copy that every single day?

Again, it doesn't make any sense.

Dear Mr. Veach,

Please emphasize these guidelines for the 2018 offseason:

1. Don't draft players in the first 3 rounds that are projects. If you want a safety, draft a safety, not a corner to convert to safety. If you want a 3-4 OLB, don't draft a 4-3 DE and try to convert him to a 3-4 OLB. Don't try to put square pegs in round holes.

2. If a player has major red character flags, I.e quits on a team, the coaching staff hates him, domestic violence, don't draft the sonofabitch until the late rounds.

3. If a guy is a broke sick in college, or several teams have them off their draft board because of serious health concerns (like Dee Ford'a back problems as a prospect), don't draft them in the first 3 rounds.

And finally...get Demetrius Harris off this goddamn team.

Kindest regards,

Chiefs fans

Priority #1: Finding a trade partner for Alex Smith.