Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16233417)

Putting this in here instead of in the first round mock thread...



This was literally the worst game of his career because they wanted him to keep using a speed rush to the outside, which isn't the way he should be used, and you picked it as your end-all-be-all example of him being a terrible player? Don't cherry-pick a bad game. I can cherry-pick a shit show from every favorite on the list sans maybe Hutchinson's 2021 tape. I'm fine with you using it as an example of his weakness, but you should also be talking about his strengths and presenting that tape if you're going here.

Players that can power rush are absolutely the top rushers year-over-year in the NFL, not speed rushers. There are a few speedy standouts, but they are rare commodities. Ideally, you have a guy with power that can bend a bit better but it's hard to get it all in one package.

Do I wish Karlaftis could bend better? Yes. I think he can be taught a few things to help him out. The guys behind him though have much more significant overall issues in their games.

My next guy would be Sam Williams from a talent perspective but he has some power issues at this stage. I love his potential, but he has to get stronger and develop much more of a power rush for the NFL and he has to set the edge against the run much better (like most coming from college).

Cam Thomas is virtually the same guy as Karlaftis. I like him a lot but very much the same issues and less developed hand play.

Ebiketie doesn't really fit a 4-3 very well. I see him as a 3-4 OLB. He's a guy I like a ton but I do worry about his ability to set the edge in the NFL in an even front.

Mafe is kind of in that group of guys without a lot of bend but I think he has more than Karlaftis and Thomas. That said I don't think he comes with the same power. He's a nice player but very, very inconsistent. I don't like his production overall. If you can get him to be consistent he could turn out to be a better pro. I don't like his age but its' not a complete deal-breaker. I'd be fine with him as the pick, but he comes with some significant bust potential in my eyes.

After this group, I think there's a very big drop-off again either in athleticism or development and I'm really not about to talk about them this early.

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16234464)

A long excuse, for a big worry trade up

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16234469)

Aren’t you the guy that shit on the Nick Bolton pick?

Feels like you just can’t see a good football player when they’re right in front of you.

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16234487)

Yep, I missed on Bolton and I admitted it. .

I don't hide on bad takes


I bet we could find a ****ton of bad takes you had too


Thus, my point still stands until proven otherwise

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16234520)

That’s not the point.

You clearly get so caught up in upside and athleticism that you can’t see a guy that’s clearly jsut a good football player for what they are.

Karlaftis, like Bolton at the end of the 2nd, would be an excellent value at the end of the 1st.

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16234523)

Yes, it is don't cast stones in glass houses especially with personal attacks.


He can be good, but won't be a gamewrecker all.-pro

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16234526)

Who the **** said he would be? Is that seriously your expectation picking at the end of the 1st?

This is exactly the kind of shit you said about Bolton, hence me bringing it up. You’re proving my point.

Again, this isn’t about having a bad take. It’s not a personal attack either. It’s an observation.

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16234530)

Trading up in the 1st round is what your projecting

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16234532)

I never projected anything.

Pretty sure kccrow is the one projecting a trade up, and even then, it’s less than 10 spots.

Again, if your expectations are All-Pro outside of the top 20, then you’re being unrealistic.

If Karlaftis can be a Justin Smith or Ryan Kerrigan type of player, that’s a damn good pick outside of the top 20.

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 16234868)

If Karlaftis has a chance at becoming Justin Smith, you won’t have anybody complaining if you moved up a few spots to get him. Nothing crazy and hopefully using a third next year to do so.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16235046)

Nate Taylor has us using a 3rd to move up from 29 to 21 w/ the Patriots pick.

I can get behind that. For Karlaftis or Williams or whoever. If the guy they want is sitting there at 21 and all it costs them is a 3rd to get there, I'm game.

That's the first suggested trade-up that I can stomach.

(Then he goes and blows the rest of the mock by taking Boye Mafe at 30, which is just a bad pick, IMO. Still don't know how you take a 24 yr old rookie w/ productivity and polish issues that high)