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-   -   Chiefs Phillip Gaines (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=286134)

KCChiefsfan1234 09-01-2014 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 10871036)
I really think people are going to be eating crow on Gaines. He was my #4 CB and I loved the pick, but it was apparent he would need at least a year of NFL coaching and an offseason to get bigger/stronger to be ready to start. I tried to tell one of you about Kelce, but I was laughed at then too.
I agree with you. He needs a year to develop. Mark my words, he will be a good corner in the future. Many of the first and second rounders have looked bad as well. This is new not only for the speed of the game but with the changes in the rules. Gaines played very well in the first game. Go watch the film. Yes he had a rough game against the Packers but you all really need to go look at the fact that he played more than anyone else that night and he played 2 special teams as well as both outside CBs and inside. Two of the penalties were total bull s### Give the kid a break.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Laz (Post 10871062)
I think it's safe to say that winning this year is not the priority.


we can agree on that.


You're just ok with that ... i'm not
I am okay with the approach. The execution... We will see, but for a solution reliant on drafting and value pickups, Dorseys pickups better start shaping the **** up.

We devalued the oline. Focused on high positional value guys in the draft this year. Shredded old veteran contracts. Cleaned up the cap. In theory this is a good way to do it. But so far his picks have been shit. But there's still time for the picks to shape up so we will see.

Sandy Vagina 09-01-2014 05:47 PM
Yeah, he really is like a Marcus Cooper.. just a year behind in development. Neither are remarkable yet, but both have the skills to develop into quality starters.

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10870981)
When did the third round become a lower round?
ok, a middle round then. Go look at how many 3rd rounder become stars. Id guess not many.


Point is, Chiefs fans expectations are set way too high. A team is lucky to hit on 2 or 3 guys each draft. Thats a good draft. 4 guys is exceptional. Not every player is going to be good,. and it expecting that is unrealistic.

milkman 09-01-2014 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 10871421)
ok, a middle round then. Go look at how many 3rd rounder become stars. Id guess not many.
Jamal Charles.

Will Shields.

That San Diego WR last year whose name escapes at the moment.

But we aren't talking about stars.

3rd round picks should be guys that can contribute now.

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 10871433)
3rd round picks should be guys that can contribute now.
Should be? Who wrote this rule? It doesnt have to be that way.

Deberg_1990 09-01-2014 06:14 PM
even the most successful teams in the league have numerous failed draft picks.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 10871133)
Zilla, you're committing the same error here as you were with Eric Fisher.

I can speak for most fans when I say that we expect Phillip Gaines and Eric Fisher to take some time.
At least on CP, you're wrong. There are people who have been calling these guys busts as soon as they took preseason snaps.

I hate the Fisher pick. Despised it from day 1. But I know he's limited right now by lack of experience and a hurt shoulder. Those aren't excuses. Those are legit reasons. But CP is so black and white sometimes, anything positive about a polarizing player is criticized as being an apologist. I don't think Fisher will be a great player but I know he needs time, bulk, and two shoulders. I don't know what we have in Gaines, but I sure as shit didn't expect him to be ready by game 1. Even with Sorensen... I don't think highly of him at all, but we have people calling him a disaster when he hasn't even breathed a single regular season second in the NFL. I've been really consistent about giving guys 1-2 years to really show what they have. And I refuse to dismiss someone as completely terrible if there are situational factors affecting their performance.

Quote:
What's troubling is that they aren't looking like talented, raw athletes needing development (I.e. Dee Ford), they look like complete catastrophes (I.e. Turk McBride). There is a difference.
In fairness, Poe, Cooper, Dorsey, and Knile Davis looked like complete disasters early on. Even Tyson Jackson... turned into an adequate DE but he was a shit show his first season. It's even harder in the modern NFL where we have shortened offseasons for rookies. I'm really concerned about Ford. I worry about Fisher even being a starter 2 years from now. So yeah, I'm concerned about these guys, but I'm also going to give them time to work some stuff out. Now Ford? That feels a lot different. Guy came from a competitive college program -- I don't bring him up because as a first round pick who was drafted to be ready right away, he doesn't look the part. That's different.

tecumseh 09-01-2014 06:54 PM
That's great that Cooper and Gaines have the physical tools to be good CB's IN A YEAR OR TWO. Meanwhile, the Chiefs have a handful of guys that are potential probowlers. Another handful that are solid. The rest are succkage or in development. How about puting together a complete team.

Mav 09-01-2014 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccopoo (Post 10871085)
I don't know man...there were a lot of solid CB prospect available when we picked Phil Gaines. Keith McGill, Dontae Johnson, Nevin Lawson, Marqueston Huff, Pierre Desir...all of whom ended up making the 53 man rosters of their respective teams. I hope you're right, but I think I would have much rather had Donte Moncrief in the third and then either Johnson or Lawson in the fourth (or David Yankey or Cyril Richardson for the sink hole OG spot that we continue to try to shovel asphalt into).
Pierre Desir has looked like absolute shit.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tecumseh (Post 10871613)
That's great that Cooper and Gaines have the physical tools to be good CB's IN A YEAR OR TWO. Meanwhile, the Chiefs have a handful of guys that are potential probowlers. Another handful that are solid. The rest are succkage or in development. How about puting together a complete team.
That's the approach Scott Pioli took. He took a lot of layups. Way too many offensive linemen in the first 3 rounds. Nickel corners. 5-techniques. Safety in the top 10. These guys were ready to help out right away. They were safe picks who could contribute right away.

But safe picks only work if you're building around an elite QB. If you're building around another type of QB, you want to build your team around playmakers. I would rather have a few playmakers than a bunch of safe guys. Playmakers come with risk especially after the first round. What Dorsey did in 2013 was safe. And I hated it. The approach we took this year is the right one and I hope one we continue to make. But again, the approach only works if you execute. I'm really nervous about our draft picks the past 2 years.

aturnis 09-01-2014 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10871507)
At least on CP, you're wrong. There are people who have been calling these guys busts as soon as they took preseason snaps.

I hate the Fisher pick. Despised it from day 1. But I know he's limited right now by lack of experience and a hurt shoulder. Those aren't excuses. Those are legit reasons. But CP is so black and white sometimes, anything positive about a polarizing player is criticized as being an apologist. I don't think Fisher will be a great player but I know he needs time, bulk, and two shoulders. I don't know what we have in Gaines, but I sure as shit didn't expect him to be ready by game 1. Even with Sorensen... I don't think highly of him at all, but we have people calling him a disaster when he hasn't even breathed a single regular season second in the NFL. I've been really consistent about giving guys 1-2 years to really show what they have. And I refuse to dismiss someone as completely terrible if there are situational factors affecting their performance.


In fairness, Poe, Cooper, Dorsey, and Knile Davis looked like complete disasters early on. Even Tyson Jackson... turned into an adequate DE but he was a shit show his first season. It's even harder in the modern NFL where we have shortened offseasons for rookies. I'm really concerned about Ford. I worry about Fisher even being a starter 2 years from now. So yeah, I'm concerned about these guys, but I'm also going to give them time to work some stuff out. Now Ford? That feels a lot different. Guy came from a competitive college program -- I don't bring him up because as a first round pick who was drafted to be ready right away, he doesn't look the part. That's different.
Ford was drafted to be ready right away? Did someone inform Hali and Houston one of them has got to go?

As for Sorensen, you're really defending the guy who provided more tape of himself chasing receivers into the endzone then doing anything else?

Bowser 09-01-2014 09:49 PM
Keenan Allen is the receiver you couldn't think of. Guy is a bad ass.

chiefzilla1501 09-01-2014 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 10872362)
Ford was drafted to be ready right away? Did someone inform Hali and Houston one of them has got to go?

As for Sorensen, you're really defending the guy who provided more tape of himself chasing receivers into the endzone then doing anything else?
As a first round pick from a major college program, he should be a lot more NFL ready. I get the concern there, but I'm not even close to ready to saying we know anything at all about him yet.

Sorensen... I'm not even defending the guy. We have people calling him completely terrible when he's a rookie who hasn't even seen (let alone played) a single snap of regular season football. And people flipping out about picking him over a guy who hasn't even been picked up by any other team.

OldSchool 09-01-2014 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 10872373)
Keenan Allen is the receiver you couldn't think of. Guy is a bad ass.
Yup, he was even better in the NFL than he was at Cal. I guess our crapfest QBs really were holding him back, lol.


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