Passed up an open 3 there to take a contested one at the shot clock buzzer

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">KJ ADAMS. <a href="https://t.co/93ZWV78EGP">pic.twitter.com/93ZWV78EGP</a></p>&mdash; Kansas Men’s Basketball (@KUHoops) <a href="https://twitter.com/KUHoops/status/1889525187881869773?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Couldn’t have won without him

You always say we win and lose games because of effort. Well I don't think there is any question KJ tries harder than anybody else. And he's still mid AF.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Self: When you have to coach energy, you&#39;re not really too worried about execution. And that, to him, is hte most frustrating part of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KUbball?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KUbball</a>&#39;s reality. He says every team goes through that at times. But adds that it&#39;s been going on too long for this team.</p>&mdash; Matt Tait (@mctait) <a href="https://twitter.com/mctait/status/1889537101294944264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Self is the one who has been saying the team is low energy for weeks now. Said their effort wasn’t even there in practice after last week’s game.

I bet if we tried harder we could beat the 97 Bulls

Let’s work on beating WVU at home first.

Yay KU Won!

I think we all know this team is likely a longshot at getting to the 2nd weekend of the tourney, and that’s where we’re at. A bunch of spoiled bitches.

I think the lineup and minutes given to players is not ideal. To the top of the mountain, most of us have expressed this frustration.

But like the media and lazy football world at large claiming the refs are why the Chiefs win, this shit is getting nauseating. Beating a dead horse isn’t gonna change anything, and I think at this point, it’s old and boring. You know it isn’t gonna change, right? So how about just rooting and hoping for the best at this point? Maybe?

It’s been a very weird season thus far. Week three, we looked unbeatable with a real bench. Now we’re back to ground zero?

It’s painful for a lot of KU peeps to even post, because it just gets constantly shit canned with nothing but KJ hate. Ad nauseam. We get it.

I’m as frustrated as anyone, but there is plenty of season left. We’ve got players. We’ve had some crazy up and downs, humbling losses and solid wins. HCBS is gonna do what he’s gonna do as one of the best coaches in the country.

RCJH.

onto Utah

Rep

:thumb:

The negativity toward this team has been over the top.

Every team they've lost to is solidly in the tourney, other than K-State. And with the way they're playing now, I think they'll get in too.

3 wins vs teams that are currently top 10ish (Mich St is 11).

Focus and intensity has been inconsistent, and the way they've lost a few games has been maddening, but this season's far from a disaster. Won't surprise me in the least if they win the Big 12 tourney and go deep in the NCAA.

If they play Flory in March 20+ minutes a game, sure, the ceiling is still high for this team.

But will they?

Rock Chalk

Go KU

It is what it is at this point.

Team isn't good enough to win the title so difficult to be upset about a result. Just hope for a fun ride. Next year we have Peterson coming in and Tiller. Throw the bag at Bidunga and it will be a fun season.

Oh, I think the team's ceiling is good enough to win the title. It would just require playing the team's lone NBA player significant minutes.

No team with Hunter Dickinson is going to win an NCAA title.

I don't think anyone has actually questioned this team's talent.

Could they go on a wild run and make a dent in the NCAA Tournament?

Maybe.

I just think there are a lot of underlying issues that are too late to fix or bandaid for that to happen.

It's mostly laziness, from players who shouldn't be lazy. KU will wind up as a 4 or 5 seed and will either lose in the first or second round this year.

Got people asking me "Are we doing BBB this year?" Having trouble building up the energy to do it.

We can have a late one in April when we're down.

We can pretend, and pretend KU is really good this year.

A team with David McCormack won a NCAA title 3 years ago, a guy who is a fraction of the player Dickinson is.

So I'm gonna disagree with that premise.

What if I told you he's really tall though...

And very skilled at basketball. He's probably the best offensive big this program has had since TRob.

I know you are going to throw out numbers, but they are lying to you.

Perhaps, although I don't need numbers to see how the team completely falls apart whenever he's out of the game.

Every team Hunter has been on has not exceeded preseason expectations...in fact they were much worse than expected.

It may not all be his fault but he is a common denominator.

Yep, KU's problem is their leading scorer/rebounder and one of the top three players in the country per Kenpom.

Because, dammit, the media ranked them #1 before the year started. Obviously, if they can't even live up to it, the most productive player is to blame.

Nobody is saying Dickinson isn't a solid to good player, but you would think at 7'2" 260 lbs. you see a little bit more dominance out of him. He definitely needs good players around him to take full advantage of his size..... aaaaand here we are, right back at KJ playing 32+ minutes a game.

Dickinson is a minus defender. Does he offset that with his rebounding and scoring? Not when KJ is in the game for sure because we then have two "bigs" who are defensive liabilities.

To be honest, I'd argue he's not even a great rebounder. For his size, he's average at best in that skillset. Most of his rebounds come straight to him. On occasion, you get him to be aggressive and he goes and gets some boards, but that's few and far between.

That said, HD is most definitely our best player and not the problem with the team.

Also that said, he's the most unathletic dude on the floor no matter who else is out there. I think the way he swings his arms and shuffles his feet make him an optical nightmare to watch for most KU fans who are used to watching athletic bigs (T-Rob, Doke, Embiid, etc).

All great points.....

He is soft in addition to being un-athletic .....was at Michigan....Still is here.....
There is a reason why he wasnt drafted years ago.....

KJ is a defensive liability? What?

Apparently Self is reeruned then, because KJ’s defense is by far the biggest reason he starts and plays so many minutes.

We're throwing around terms like "defense liability" but that's in context. We mix up his defensive versatility and team defense with post defense. KJ is terrible as a low post defender because he has no length... Like none at all. Self overvalues his ability to guard the perimeter as a big (with switching), and his help defense (which is the staple of Self's team concept). There aren't very many on this team that do it well, except KJ. That's why he gets all the minutes he's given.

Yeah, seems to be pretty common knowledge at this point, he makes everyone around him a little worse... there's a "hated player" thing on reddit for the B1G and he was in the quadrant of "talented player, hated by fans", and there were just as many Michigan and KU fans chiming in with their hate as other fans. It wasn't "this guy is a dick, but he's our dick" or "hated to play against that guy", it's clearly that he has talent, yet is too damn lazy to ever consistently hit his true potential (and slow as ****), on top of being a dick.

Self has always valued lengthy wings that are very athletic, can play defense, and can score. The teams under him that have been very good are because they have super wings with versatility. Think of Rush, McLemore, Wiggins, Braun, Agbaji, Dick, McCullar, Jalen Wilson, Mykhailiuk (and list goes on and on).. Unfortunately, KJ is very athletic and basically a wing but cannot score. And that severely hamstrings the dynamic of this team.

I know someone here thinks this team is top 5 in defense....

I dont see it....

CU had open looks all day. Either they are slow, lazy, or just cant do it but they suck at defending the other team. Throw in the complete inability to not turn the ball over.....
Not a classic Self team....

I don't think it is, it literally is.

They're currently 5th in defensive rating in the country (https://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankAdjDE) behind only UT, Duke, St. John's and Houston.

The numbers also show they are particularly great defensively when both Flory and Dickinson are on at the same time (a lineup that Self appears reluctant to go to fully due to KJ's presence on the team).

It's the offense that remains this team's biggest issue. They basically don't have a consistent way to score points when Hunter doesn't have the ball in his hands and they fall off a cliff whenever he's off the floor. This was supposed to be resolved with more shooting (which, to some extent, they do have) but KJ again hurts them there too because teams basically don't guard him at all in the half court.

The numbers actually show KU is better defensively with Dickinson on the floor than not.

This was from November, but you'll see he remains just outside the top 10 still (13). It turns out being that tall has its benefits on the defensive side too.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hunter Dickinson is in the Top 10 for defensive rating according to <a href="https://twitter.com/EvanMiya?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@EvanMiya</a> <a href="https://t.co/emlh5k5iFP">https://t.co/emlh5k5iFP</a></p>&mdash; Mark Titus Show (@MarkTitusShow) <a href="https://twitter.com/MarkTitusShow/status/1861867607172731347?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://evanmiya.com/?player_ratings

You have to go back to Devon Dotson in 2020 to find a player more "dominant" statistically than Dickinson within this program.

I'll say it again, but if he was in McCormack's role playing with those 2022 wings on that championship team, he'd have been absolutely beloved in this program instead of what he is for reasons largely out of his control.

Does it count the times that hes so slow to rotate that easy baskets are made or an easy 3 is made? Or hes so slow he can't get down the court, at all on transition...even sequences that arent even really transition just guys moving kinda fast. All of these analytics are hugely subjective.

There is a reason every single team including the Michigan teams underperformed every year and why Dickinson is not a pro prospect. He is not bad. He is not awful. Simply and overrated player because he doesn't play winning basketball compared to the stats he produces.

I'm not so sure we would even get worse if Hunter never played again and Bidunga played 30 mpg.

Nope....you can throw statistics out all day....

You can blame his teammates all you want.

No hustle, desire, intensity or Leadership.....Those are traits that get you beloved.
He lacks each of those....

I don't know how to measure any of that, but what I can tell you is that he's been the one of the most valuable players in the NCAA once again this year. If he played with NBA wings around him instead of KJ Adams, the offense would also be up there with some of the best in program history.

The blame that our only consistent performing player gets for the faults/flaws of other players on this team is way out of line with reality.

It counts all of it and they're still better defensively with him on the floor. You can hurt him if you bring him out to the perimeter with bigs that also shoot threes, but there are very few bigs in the NCAA that can do that enough to make that a regular problem.

The reason he's not a pro prospect is because he's not even close to athletic enough by NBA standards. Those players would absolutely run circles around him if he somehow played a game there. Has nothing to do with his aptitude for the game or his scoring/passing ability where he's quite skilled and why he remains very valuable in the NCAA (and why he'll also end up as some kind of bench big in Europe pro ball).

And if you took Dickinson off this team, there's a very good chance that their offense would barely rank in the top 100 in offensive rating. That's how bad they are statistically when he's off the floor. Our offense would probably just consist of handing the ball to Storr or Zeke and asking them to hit contested shots.

And they say the perfect gif response doesn't exist

This feels like Mike Sweeney on the mid-2000's Royals - he got a ton of hate because he was the biggest name on a string of dogshit teams.

I mean, KJ is regularly posting his triple single numbers (averaging 8-4-2 on the season). That's consistent too I guess in a way.

Dedric Lawson also had some similarities to Dickinson. Both stat producers. Both do not equal wins. Both slow, lazy, and cumbersome.

Dedric was leader of a 26-10 Kansas team who also did not meet expectations.

I would agree. HD is going to be one of the more polarizing KU figures of the last 20 years or so.

Or they both played for incredibly flawed teams for reasons that had very little to do with them.

Dedric and Udoka were a great duo until Udoka got predictably injured (again).

That plus Grimes and Dotson being so inconsistent really screwed that team.

Not to mention the Vick drama.

A lot to be annoyed about with the 2019 team, but Lawson is at the bottom of the list.

I think he's more similar to Perry Ellis than anybody else in the last decade or so, although Dickinson was the better player overall. Both players were very good offensively but perceived to be poor defensively and kind of soft.

One though was sort of beloved in the program and other has become like the main representation of why this era of the team is failing.

Sucks.

Is there much love out there for him at this point? I know there was a ton of hype, but between here and the KU/CBB subs on reddit, people seem to be accepting he's a net negative... the overall vibe seems to be people bring up criticisms like they're about to get bashed for it, then a bunch of people agree. A lot of "I know there's talent in there / is it okay to say something bad about him". I don't follow KU boards much though..

I'm sure much like Mahomes, some people just have a terrible time separating it all out... if someone is good, they're just untouchable no matter what (even if Dickinson has never come close to reaching Mahomes status), because nuance is confusing.

That's because fans have a tendency of blaming their team's best players for the failures of their teams. Happens no matter who it is at any level of sport. Doesn't mean it is right to do so in every situation.

I never blamed Frank Mason.

I don't recall the last two Frank Mason teams "failing." They ran into juggernaut rosters at Villanova and Oregon in the E8 that were full of NBA players.

I’ll never get over Selden clanking all those wide open 3’s against Nova and the bullshit call that fouled Graham out.

That game was right there for the taking.

I hadn't thought about that foul in a while now. Ugh.

Sorry.

Game to forget for Perry Ellis. That monster center whooped his ass.

I’ll also always wonder if Jordan Bell would’ve dominated that Oregon game had Doke not gotten hurt. He was such a physical mismatch for Lucas, but Doke could’ve bullied him.

I argue that nobody would care about Hunter being soft if he didn't have to play next to KJ Adams. 10 years from now, nobody is going to remember much about Dickinson; KJ will rightfully be the focus.

Would that Oregon team beat this years KU team by 60? I mean what would Bell do to someone like HD?

Underperformed every year? In his first year at Michigan, they were #25 in preseason, won the B10 and went to the Elite 8. His second year, he carried them to the Sweet 16 as an 11 seed. In his third year, they sucked because they didn't have a PG.

Last year's KU team underperformed because they lost their two best guards (McCullar and Morris) and were overrated by the media.

You've been shown that Dickinson's actually much better defensively than most think, and he's the #3 player in the nation according to Kenpom. He's obviously a skilled scorer who excels at passing and rebounding. Yet, in your world, he's the source of every problem, and Self's an absolute moron for going to such lengths to land him.

If you actually think the team would be better if they benched Dickinson, you're hopeless. Bidunga's a foul machine who makes a lot of freshman mistakes and produces little aside from dunking a few lobs and the occasional block. They'd have to hold teams to 50 ppg to win.

We already know what happens when Dickinson sits out. It's not pretty. Check out the Cincinnati game in the Big 12 tourney last year for a refresher. 20-point loss to a team that was 7-11 in conference, and it wasn't that close. One of the few times I've truly been embarrassed by a KU team's performance. They legit looked like a D2 team that day.

Instead of your ridiculous hypothetical, ask yourself what the team would look like if you replaced Harris and KJ with great scorers, freeing him from being double/triple teamed.

Aside from it being a really bad take, you're also implying that you understand basketball better than Bill Self. Just sad.

Can you ever state an argument without flying off the handle into some reeruned bullshit no one has ever stated? LMAO :facepalm:

Outside of his first year at Michigan...where he only got 20 to 21 mpg I believe Hunters teams have failed to live up to expectations. Yes. When he was the key cog every orher year things did not go as well as expected.

Averaging 26 minutes a game, Dickinson was ranked #8 in KPOY in his freshman year for Michigan which was higher than his lottery pick teammate. I think I'd call him a "key cog", yeah.

Big difference was he was playing with a NBA big who spaced the floor around him (Franz Wagner) and other shooters/floor spacers and not KJ Adams.

The issue is and has always been who he is playing with on this team the last two seasons.

I think most of us agree that he needs talent around him to be successful. But I think what you are missing is that a great player doesn't HAVE to have other people around him to be considered good/great. They are great because they are great.

Let me be clear on my position. HD is not the problem on this team. He is a solid to good player now, and with the right players around him could be a good to very good player.

But he is really unathletic, slow offensively, and gets pushed around a lot for a player that is 7'2" 260. Seeing him power to the basket with a strong move and dunk is like seeing Big Foot. You think you saw it once, but it was so long ago you just can't be certain it wasn't a bear behind a tree.

Now, with all that said, you are going to throw out Kenpom or some other random stat to show he's a great player and I spent the time typing this out for nothing.

LMAO

Yep, it's always "well, in that one game when it looked like he gave a shit"... NC State, I think? And I do remember him hustling down the court once and making some monster dunk, but couldn't even tell you the game.

People can say he's talented until they're blue in the face, but they're just making up an argument that doesn't exist. Everyone sees the talent and THAT'S the problem. He’s not some scrub who every once in a while might surprise you... he's a much hyped NIL transfer who has become someone you're surprised when he does show up to do.more than be tall and outreach guys for rebounds and layups.

And maybe he was motivated a couple years ago with two NBA draft picks on the Michigan team or those guys just made him look better... but neither of those are attributes of an elite player.

Like I've said before, nobody blames Caitlin Clark for teammates who **** up her perfect passes, or Mahomes in the Bucs SB for receivers dropping passes when he's running for his life and dropping dimes.

Everyone and anyone who isn't blind as **** can see the effort and talent regardless of the players around them.

And that almost never happens with Dickinson, but I guess he looked better when a top 10 NBA draft player was on his team, so that must mean he's also good... :shrug:

Depends on how loosely you define "great," but every single analyst in the world would say he's a very good player. Imagine how they'd view him if he had some floor spacers and wasn't doubled/tripled all the time.

I keep seeing it repeated that Dickinson underwhelms "for a player his size." Firstly, he's tall (although probably closer to 7'0 than 7'2), but he's not the strongest dude out there. He's pretty skinny. Second, there have been numerous players his height, or even much taller, that were total stiffs or couldn't get off the bench for midmajors.

Yeah, he's pretty slow....that's not unusual for 7+ white guys. What is unusual is his passing ability and shooting ability for a player that size.

I'd hate to see this team without HD.

We should get back to bashing KJ or Dajaun.

Which he is. He consistently posts 20/10 games and the team absolutely falls apart whenever he’s off the floor.
.
He’s not athletic but he makes it all work for him despite that. Even pretending he’s not regularly putting up big numbers, I don’t think there’s much question he’s the best offensive big we’ve had since TRob. The only real way to stop him for any opponent is to double him (which they do regularly because we start a player with him who teams don’t guard whatsoever). Can’t think of a better passing big than him either at KU although this team doesn’t make use of that particular skill enough either.

Yes, 4th in KPOY right now. Braden Smith at Purdue has just passed him this week.

He didn’t play all that different with shooters/spacers on his team than KJ Adams but his team did perform better and his skillset was maximized. I think you can take a guess as to why that might be.

As annoying as KJ has been, he’s fine in an energy big role off the bench.

I’m pretty tired of Harris at this point. He’s fine when he’s surrounded by NBA wings, but I really miss having point guards who could get their own shots. I’ve seen Harris miss enough bunnies around the rim to last a lifetime.

We need to get back to having a Sherron, Mason, Graham, or Dotson at the point.

Harris might be my least favorite KU basketball player of all time, well besides Tharpe.

At least point plankn redeemed himself in 2012.

Hey, we have Diggy coming back for another year it looks like! LJW article

Very well said....

HD is a good player....Full stop....
HD is NOT a great player.....Full stop....

If the best offensive big in this program since TRob isn't considered a great player, I don't know who would be.

As tiny as he is, more shooting on the roster is still never a bad thing. We just really need to hope we don't see a story like this about KJ in the next 4-5 months. The success of next season probably completely depends on that.

Let's recap.

BWillie: "There is a reason every single team including the Michigan teams underperformed every year and why Dickinson is not a pro prospect. I'm not so sure we would even get worse if Hunter never played again."

You realize that Bill Self built this team around Hunter Dickinson the last two years, right? And that he recruited him harder than any recruit in years? So yeah...to say that Dickinson doesn't make teams better, and causes them to underperform, is equivalent to calling Bill Self a clueless moron.

Btw, can you point me in the direction of the people who have stated this?>>

ROFL LMAO

All the KJ hate has quietly given Harris a pass for an absolutely atrocious season. Did you know he's shooting worse from 3 than Timberlake last year? Did you know Timberlake only shot 30%? Did you know he has more games shooting 0 FTs(8) than he does shooting more than 2(7)? Not that you want him at the line shooting 60% from the line. For a guy playing 30 mins a game these are terrible numbers.

I'm not the biggest Harris fan, but he definitely hasn't been atrocious, outside of a couple games.

Averages 10 and 6, shooting 45%, with an A/TO ration better than 3 to 1.

He is a better coach than he is a GM. Many schools are even getting a GM now. Every coach can and does make mistakes.