I mean Kelce did get Jones in a commercial with him. Pat and Travis are trying.

**** him absolutely **** him.

This.

Some of you are soft as hell. Dude is clearly a dick and is doing this to hurt the Chiefs. Ain't got shit to do w money anymore.

Missing week one will be fine. Just see it as a Jones standing up for all NFL players & protesting Thursday Night Football

-That's winning!

I hope he blows out both knees playing pickup basketball with Michael Bay.

:spock: It has everything to do with money.

He's clearly following this year's script, just imagine his surprise when he found out he wouldn't be starting the season. :popcorn:

Dudes gonna blow 12 million to prove a point.

Congrats I guess

Yep. At least that much. I have a weird feeling he's gonna turn down a truly great offer and end up taking a lesser deal in a year from another team just to spite KC. The mental gymnastics these guys have to go through. Sometimes these guys just WANT to feel slighted. Maybe it's what they need to keep their motivation high after accomplishing so much already. **** if I know.

Oh I fully expect him to end up with a rival and go full Tyreek cause the chiefs kicked him to the curb

Only betas need motivation.

I would say it's the other way around. CJ's effectively kicking the Chiefs to the curb if that indeed happens. (ending up with a rival)

CJ thinks Le’Veon Bell did the right thing in his holdout. I don’t think he’s even aware of who to trust and he’s just going “all-in” on what his agent has told him to do. Regardless Chris needs to see the situation and realize that the road he’s choosing is not right. This is his call at this point and I have no sympathy for that. It’s much different than what Neil Smith had happen.

At this point, zero shits given. He's basically turned into turncoat Neil Smith 2.0 at this point. Up until the latest turn of events, he was one of my favorites players.



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Probably the Bengals, at this point **** CJ

Tag and trade if he has another good year. Even if it could take you out of the first wave of FA as a worst case scenario, the draft picks would make up for it

Bro, come on. This is ALL, let me repeat, ALL about the Benjamins. This is a last contract money grab, and he's gonna get his no matter the consequences. So yeah, if it hurts the Chiefs, that's just business in his mind. It ****ing sucks, but he's not doing this for anything more than money.

Let me add, I think he's a moron at this point. Everyday that this thing goes on beyond yesterday, he's looking like a bigger fool, IMO.

I think it's more pride than money at this stage.

Because if he's really going to sit out, he's not gonna earn this money back. He'll end up upside down on the balance sheet when its all said and done.

He's just weirdly pissed off for some reason. I don't get it.

What? KC was on the verge of signing Hill until the WR market exploded and what was going to be ~$24-$25 million a year to $30 million. That's way too steep for this team.

The Brown Jr. contract was an example of KC offering him a good contract and him rejecting it because he wanted to reset the LT market. KC let him walk and he found out very quickly that what he thought he was worth vs what the league thought was significantly different.

With Jones, KC has made him a good offer from all reports. He rejected that because he's looking at $30 million a year as a 29 year old DT. That's too much and this team can't afford to take on $30 million a year contracts for any non QB position.

KC hasn't lost any of these disputes. They just refuse to hamstring the team by paying players what they think they are worth. I would bet right now that there is no contender out there that will pay Jones $30 million a year right now.

This reminds me of the Deshaun Watson/Lamar Jackson situation. One team and GM makes a poor decision on a contract and suddenly players expect that to become the norm. Other GMs disagree and continue to make those horrid contracts the outliers, not the standard. Once a player realizes it and budges on their demands then there is progress. Lamar realized he wasn't getting what he wanted and ended up with a very good contract. Jones will end up the same way once he's willing to budge.

Next year our cap situation is pretty nice (I think). Somewhere in the $50 mil range assuming a MVS cut and a CJ95 $20 mil franchise tag. We would easily be able to sign someone in the 1st wave of FA while holding CJ to his tag while we look for a trade

Brown Jr was not signing here. That ship sailed and it had zero to do with Veach. Brown Jr wanted to reset the market and Veach called his bluff. Brown Jr ended up signing for less than KC offered him. Zero chance he was coming back for less than KC originally offered him, and zero chance Veach would have offered him the same as the original offer.

it's the sunk cost fallacy. he's already losing money so he has to hold out for the massive payout to make up for it (even if it won't actually make up for it).

I don't actually hate CJ I just think he's gotten bad advice. players look at this differently than fans, I have no expectation for him to feel the same way about the chiefs that I do

WOW!!! Just caught up on the last 15 or so hours of this thread. I'm guessing jettio is going to wake up with a hell of a hangover. Had to be drunk AF to post all of that stupidity.

Yep. Ive gone back and read that OBJ poll thread, and I cant believe all those who wanted to pay him. So adament about it too. LMAO.
I think we are so much better off now.

Yeah, I was reading those posts last night thinking, he must have sprung for the $6 bottle of Old Crow with the attitude, "By God, I'm going to finish this bottle!!"


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Like my dad always says " A fool and his money will soon part"

Thing is…..if the money is what we’re hearing I’m not sure he’s gonna get anyone to trade and pay it

The chiefs run into this because they win. A lot. And win big games.

Guys associate that with getting paid big money.

This is where I'm at too.
He got bad advice or his ego got the best of him.

Come play lights out the last year of your contract and let the market decide what happens next year.

True and sad

Exactly, this is going to be a consistent problem as long as Mahomes and Reid are here. We will keep winning big and being in the spotlight, and guys like OBJ, Hill and Jones will come and go thinking they're bigger than they really are.

It's literally the exact same thing that happened to the Patriots. They watched guys like Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy and Richard Seymour (just to name a few) price their way out of town and they just kept winning because they had Brady and Belichick. This is who we are now, and it's part of the reason so many people said maintaining a dynasty would be next to impossible. Everyone wants to be a star, everyone wants to get paid.

It was probably short sighted to think guys like Hill and Jones would just keep taking team friendly deals to stick around. Not everyone is in this league for the glory of greatness like Pat, Andy and Kelce. Jones won it all twice now and now he wants his money and stardom. We'll move on and keep winning and guys like him and Hill will rot away with shitbag franchises in their twilight years just like the guys I mentioned above. I'm already over him and look forward to getting some picks for him.

If Smith is at worst the equal of Brown Jr. then KC still wins that situation. They get equal performance for a fraction of the long term cost and if he's Brown Jr. level good, KC can walk away at the end of the season from him vs being stuck with Brown Jr long term.

Bad example, Neil wanted to win a championship and won 2 at Denver. I can admire wanting to win. Jones won 2 championships and now wants his bag.

All of these contracts and holdouts just make me love Kelce even more. Dude is severely underpaid but you never hear him complain about it and he's publicly said that he doesn't want to play for anyone other than the Chiefs. He knows that Mahomes/Reid are his best chance for cementing him as the best TE ever.

Yep, this is the exact opposite of that situation. Neil knew he wasn't going to win shit with dipshit Peterson at the helm, and he bailed for a team with an actual franchise QB. Can't blame him one bit.

The NFL = Not For Long and every team in the league, including the Chiefs, would drop him like yesterday's underwear if he got injured and couldn't perform at the same level. So I don't blame guys like CJ for getting what they can while they can. Felt the same about Hill also.

I've been trying to figure out how he gains from holding out regular season games and it is just not making sense. Besides the fines adding up it seems to me he is damaging his value with the rest of the league. If he shows up and plays then ends the season as a UFA teams will get into a bidding war and he will find some team that will over pay for him but if he's holding out into the season aren't teams going to be more cautious about signing him, less willing to invest the $30M per he wants for a DT that will be 30 before the contract begins?
Or maybe I'm reading this wrong, IDK.

Even if they tag him and move into FA they can still make moves.

Kinda weird how people quickly forgot back in 2010 when Brett Veach had $177 and a Hyvee coupon in cap space but yet he extended Chris Jones, extended Sammy and gave Mahomes half a billion.

The Chiefs have all of the leverage. they can tag his fat ass and use the Mahomes contract restructure at any time they want. And Patrick won't be mad at it all. "Hey Patrick. This is Brett. We just restructured your contract to free cap space. The check for about $15 million can be sent by check or direct deposit. You choose."

Chris has no leg to stand on. He's already ****ed up but not enough to make it hurt us. If he shows up now we won't be able to afford his outrageous $30+ million cap hit which won't allow us to tag him unless it's short term to get a trade done at the combine.

If I'm an NFL player, especially on this team, I'm looking at what happened to Orlando Brown Jr and now Chris Jones and thinking "yeah that agent fee is worth it to not end up like those two."

What KC was rumored to be offering him wasn't team friendly, nor was what they were going to offer Hill. They were both top of the market contracts. With Hill, the WR exploded before he signed and he priced himself out of KC. Jones wants money closer to Donald which is too much.

KC is willing to pay their stars good contracts, they just won't overpay for them.

I assume that whatever money Kelce and Mahomes are giving up in NFL contract they are more than making up in endorsement deals. I see both of them in commercials all over the place, even when traveling out of this area.

Players have a short window to make as much guaranteed money as possible. Once an injury happens, the team will discard them and use every measure possible to not pay them and/or get out of the contract.

Russ Okung took an L trying to go without an agent as well.

Fellas - it AIN'T a good idea.

The Curse of Florio

I’d really like to know exactly what Veach/Clark/Andy offered.

Which is exactly why its idiotic to do what hes doing. He has been offered (reported) a four year deal for 2nd highest AAV for his position

We hadn't thought of that. Do you think that's why Chris Jones is very likely lighting money on fire in aggregate if he sits out until week 8?

Fine - then be up front about it.

If money is your primary motivation, take the Rosenhaus/Hill approach where they knew what they wanted, they were up front about it with the organization and then they actively sought a team willing to provide the contract they wanted AND the sort of trade package that made it worth KC's while to deal him.

I don't begrudge him wanting to get $30 million. I think it's wrongheaded, but fine - shoot your shot. But if you wanted that, the way to get it was to work WITH the Chiefs and the rest of the league to try to get a trade done.

It's not THIS.

I'd be shocked if it's not a pretty basic step-up over Williams deal with the Jets.

Something like 4 years, $100 million with $50 million in guarantees. That's where the market went and that's a fair offer for the Chiefs to have made.

And I think Jones agents are just ignoring that fact.

That just leads to hurt feelings a team can tell an agent why they don't think said player is worth that and he never has to hear it...imagine the Ravens having to tell Lamar to his face we aren't giving you that guarantee because you kinda suck at passing man.

The Chiefs are absolutely playing this right. Chris Jones is a very good player but he's not worth $30 million, especially now that he's about to be 30.

People get pissy about this but take emotion out of it. He's had only 2 seasons with double-digit sacks and didn't have any sacks until this last season. His magnus opus was dominating a Bengals OL composed of backup players. And then the next game was invisible in the SB.

I like Chris but he has no leverage to demand such a high amount.

Let's say 4/$100 w/ a $28 million signing bonus:

Year 1 of the extension; age 30 season for Jones: 8 million base (guaranteed) plus $7 million signing bonus for a $15 million hit.

Year 2: $14 million base (guaranteed), $7 million bonus (age 31)
Year 3: $20 million base, $7 million bonus (age 32)
Year 4: $30 million base, $7 million bonus (age 33)

Real money: 3 years, $70 million and the Chiefs absorb a $7 million dead cap hit in 2027 instead of pay/extend a 33 yr old Chris Jones. Cap hits are $15, $21 and $27 million over the first 3 years of the extension. And of course you could, if you wanted to, goose those numbers a little by moving some money out of this year's deal into those years to reduce his 2023 $28 million cap hit.

That's eminently reasonable. It's absolutely in line with the market. It's $50 million in guarantees with $70 million reasonably likely to be paid unless Jones just collapses.

It's absolutely fair. And I'm betting that's about what KC has offered.

I was assuming something similar, maybe a little more on the annual average, which is probably the max the Chiefs could afford but after watching how Veach works I'm also assuming he shot CJ's agent this offer before the draft. So if CJ and his agent think they will make the Chiefs flinch by holding out I'm afraid they are playing chicken with a freight train.

Yup - the 'buffer' effect of having an agent is a big deal that these guys seem to always overlook.

Good points. I think sacks are a bit over rated. Its much more than that. Blocked passes, total pressures , playing inside & out , stuffing the run and availability are just as important.

Maybe KC is not offering the # of years Jones wants?

Regardless: You cant reward selfish negotiating when you have a championship roster to extend and refill each season. The league is offense first and defense is an afterthought.

That's the thing that's annoying about the "How can we not pay him as much as TJ Watt?!?!" stuff.

Watt AVERAGED 15 sacks/season prior to last year's injury year. He's demonstrated year in, year out dominance. He's been a monster.

Jones has been a very very good player and had a great quasi-platform season. But he's not been Watt. In what was arguably Jones best season (2018) our defense was hot !@#$ing garbage. Even last season we were firmly mid-pack.

This team goes as Patrick Mahomes goes. But TJ Watt has been the anchor of a defense that was pretty instrumental in any success the Steelers had. His QBs have been the corpse of Big Ben and Kenny Pickett with a Mason Rudolph interlude. Why SHOULD the Chiefs pay Jones what the Steelers paid Watt?

And I think Jones is monumentally important to this team - but he's not as important to KC as Watt is to Pittsburgh. He's not as good in a vacuum. And that's the case with Watt, Bosa, Donald and Garrett - all the guys that are being paid more than him.

He's just not being reasonable.

You would think seeing what Pat has done with his brand and how that can be more lucrative than game cheques he has Luke trying to copy him , but this is going to hurt his off the field/post retirement earning potential especially if he ends up finishing his career playing on a shitty team.

Watt is also younger...the only guy on that list older than Jones is Donald and a big reason he got that deal is because he threatened to retire.

So you think that it was the Ravens said?

You don't guarantee more than 2-3 years because it is a dumb decision for a team to do that with any player.

The money the Ravens are paying Lamar Jackson says that they believe in him as a QB.

And the Rams were pushing their chips in for a final run before they had to deal with the consequences of their draft pick trades.

They HAD to have Donald. Where they were in the competitive cycle put them over a barrel.

The Chiefs aren't there. Donald ****ed the Rams because he could - Jones can't do that.

Hard for me to compare a dt to a de but that’s what he wants to be paid like so …..

When you have to negotiate directly with a player it isn't hard to get hurt feelings. A GM and an agent can talk about upside and downfalls and why said player falls into a certain tier.

It's much more precarious when you have to tell a guy who thinks he's your franchise player he isn't as good as he thinks he is.

Then sitting out and throwing money away is the exact worst thing he could be doing for himself, if money is what he's after.

If his primary objective is money, then reporting and balling out this year is the best thing you can do. You get all the money you are owed this year and you set yourself up great for a top dollar contract with someone.

By sitting, you are now actively throwing away money that is owed to you, driving down your value on the tag, and actively driving down your own value on your next contract in the eyes of other owners.

It's probably even more precarious when you have to tell that to the players mom. LOL

Speaking of...what the hell is going on in SF? Nick Bosa is probably the only DL in the league currently that deserves an Aaron Donald contract. It's bizarre that they haven't gotten that done, especially with that team.

Damn John. You're the GM of a team that just shit away 3 draft picks and has a rookie QB contract on the books for at least 3 more years. What's the hold up?

You could make an argument for Micah Parsons, but Nick Bosa is that guy. He's incredible. Take him off that team and they suffer immensely.

I don't get it

Trying to understand the CTE addled mind of a GM that traded 3 firsts and a third for a player they let play essentially 4 games, and then trade that player away for a 4 is a fools errand.

Lynch is probably trying to find the optimal package of 5th and 6th rounders to trade Bosa for.

Bosa probably wants 32 per year for 5 years with 4 gtd right?

Originally yeah it was all about money but as TwistedChief has pointed out at this point I don't see how sitting out all these games will benefit him money wise short or long term. Although I could be wrong of course but I think things have gotten personal and he feels betrayed. So he wants to not play for the Chiefs as long as he possibly can.

Chris wants to be paid the same as the guy who stacked 5 straight double-digit sack seasons, NFL rookie of the year, 3X NFLDPOTY awards, 8 straight pro bowls, 7 straight 1st team All Pro's, 5.5 playoff sacks in the last 6 playoff games (2 years) as well as literally coming away with the sack that won them the SB.

The resumes don't line ups it's not even close. Chris has no claim to get anywhere near Aaron Donald money.

He's damn sure not selling BBQ sauce in KC for the next 20 years. At the rate he's going, he probably wouldn't even be able to sell used cars.

But the guaranteed contract issue was not about belief in the player, that was about front office people belief in themselves not to do something that is not worth the risk to the team and that the player does not really need.

I will never EVER understand the ball-washing of John Lynch.

He's an AWFUL general manager. He had a team that was hot spiced ass one year and so he drafted a generationally great player at 1.2 - the guy who was universally considered the best player in the draft.

This is the same doofus that took Solomon Thomas when he needed a QB. Who gave big money to Grapes after giving up a 2nd for him. Who obviously torched the Lance capital. McGlinchey at 9 overall was awful. Kinlaw has been a bust. Foster was out of the league within a couple years. Dante Pettis and Aaron banks in the 2nd?

How long can he coast on Kittle and Warner? Those picks were a half decade ago and he's been awful since.

The buffer is worth 70% of the overall fee. No player would want to hear the back-and-forth performance breakdown...impossible not to take the critique very personally.

Have you suffered from some kind of health issue lately?

Exactly. Jones is good, but he is currently not on a HOF track. Donald is considered by most to be one of the greatest ever at his position. Jones has earned and deserves #2 DT money, but that should be closer to Williams than Donald.

After reading today and last night, a better question is if his parents have any kids that lived

They just keep winning.

Once Brock purdy turns back into Brock purdy it’ll work itself out

He's not a good GM, he's basically been saved by spending FA money and hitting on enough picks to balance it out.

Brock Purdy makes it where Trey Lance didn't get him fired...Samuel and Aiyuk help, pulling the McCaffrey deal and also being in a bad conference.

Bosa has had a lot of injuries. Hard to blame the team for being careful on the contract negotiation.

The 49ers are in a cap crunch without a QB contract, it's one of the reasons their team is good.

They had this same issue with DeForest Buckner what he wanted and what they were willing to give him were not close which is how he ended up a Colt.

Chris is leveraging our DL is going be bad Thursday...it prob will be but
I would love to see somebody step up and ball out

Wut? That's crazy. I might have to reconsider my hatred for Neil.