Also Joe Schobert and Cory Littleton LB options along with Van Noy all 3 were released recently and wouldn’t count in the comp draft pick formula

Could definitely do worse than Sammy. AJ Green would be risky with his age but is a big target

So we know now that Zadarius Smith backed out of his agreement with the Ravens.

I haven't seen that he signed anywhere else (like Gregory) immediately.

That likely means he's waiting on an offer from a specific team. Could we still be in on him and just waiting until today to get the money?

Or he's letting the other interested teams bid each other up so he gets more money.

For sure, he could be doing that too. But surely he already has a notion of what his market is. I wouldn't think a bidding war would take THAT long but who knows.

Thielen restructured his deal with the Vikings. Looks like they're trying to create as much room as they can. Maybe they're just going to keep Hunter.

Definitely possible. There was a ton of smoke there for the last couple weeks. Chandler Jones and Miller signed about the same time so someone might have come in to better what Baltimore was offering or his agent talked him into playing the market thinking he could now get more

It's weird that he backed out. It doesn't look that great if you verbally agree to a deal, then see that other guys at your position are getting more money....and then back out.

Yeah, backing out of that deal without another offer in hand was REALLY stupid.

Even money says his market absolutely tanks.

I’m gonna get flamed for this but I really don’t mind bringing Sammy back at the right price. Incentive based contract would be good.

Right now we have 2 starting WR’s, Gordon (lol) and Powell.

Unless it wasn't money at all.

Randy Gregory said his decision was about contract language he didn't like. Maybe Smith saw something in the contract language that wasn't to his liking?

I'm down for anything at this point. This team needs bodies pretty much everywhere. Just start signing some cheaper guys and fill up.

I think Jihad Ward as a DE that can also play DT will be in play. Hopefully dirt cheap. Cullen got to see him first hand last year

Any word on negotiations with OBJ? Wouldn't signing him and clearing the tag free up $$ to go eat? What's the going rate AAV for OT?

Nothing yet. I don't think his deal gets done until closer to the deadline.

Yeah, it's a mistake; presumptively referring to possible 2024 dead cap?.

Click on the little 'dead cap' link in 2023 and for every available option, cut or trade, includes that same $6.45 million in 2023 dead cap money. They got it right there, just didn't translate it on the webpage. They also did some wonky stuff w/ his signing bonus numbers.

I don't think they have it figure out yet, to be honest.

It ain't going anywhere. Like I said, it's carved in stone at this point.

AFAIK, he's still trying to decide whether he wants to hire an agent or represent himself.

He kind of said he wasn't doing anything until after Mahomes' wedding anyway.

I know I've said it plenty of times before but I just don't see how Chris Jones is sticking on this team next year with that cap number. They're either going to have to extend him or trade him.

Lol I won't lie....this off season is just as confusing as the season was. I truly did not think the conversations that are being had right now would be the conversations we'd be having a week into free agency.

I think I was extremely naive and bought into the whole Mahomes has a special contract structure that will allow the chiefs to restructure and move money/numbers around whenever to create cap room and flexibility thing too much.

Here's OTC for Clark.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Per <a href="https://t.co/c4sdxY9FRD">https://t.co/c4sdxY9FRD</a> , here are Frank Clark’s restructure numbers in full. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://t.co/aWkQ4LJ2wt">https://t.co/aWkQ4LJ2wt</a> <a href="https://t.co/hXFFOK4uUp">pic.twitter.com/hXFFOK4uUp</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1504839552904609853?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

According to Spotrac (minus the disclaimer of course), his 2023 cap hit went from $26.5M to $13.7M but his 2023 dead money went from $6.5M to $9M.

He save us $12.8M this year but will cost $2.5M MORE to cut next year.

Should have just ****ing cut him now.

It's not Mahomes....it's everyone else.

Hill has a large cap number and needs a new deal.
Clark had a large cap number and they had to figure out what to do with him.
Jones still has a large cap number.
Thuney is at $18 million.
OBJ needs a new contract and we're carrying $16 million for him.

Add in the fact that we're losing a lot of the roster because we had a ton of 1 year deals the last couple of seasons....and this was bound to happen eventually.

Me too, but then again we were told that when he signed the deal.

They can't do anything with Mahomes until today. That's the issue.

Should have but then we would be sitting here with Danna and Kaindoh. Even if the dude only gets 4-5 sacks....they valued that and a body more than they did the $2.5 million it would cost off of next year's cap.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Source: The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cowboys?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cowboys</a> have agreed to terms on a 1-year deal with LB Leighton Vander Esch. Their former first round pick is back.</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1504837284138467336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's not true. You can re-structure contracts any time. Today is just the deadline because a bonus is due IIRC.

No way.

There are many guys still available before going that route. Sammy's just not dependable.

Bring in, for example, Auden Tate, James Washington, LaQuan Treadwell, not as #2 but to compete for roster spots. I also like the idea of signing Brandon Powell to be a 5th/6th WR and return punts/kicks.

I'm starting to lean towards riding out the storm. We can still push for the division but it's not the time to push the chips all in. Let these other team's young qb contracts run out and that will limit their super team building abilities. We can get a head start by drafting well the next few years.

Which may mean that they don't plan on restructuring his deal this year. It can't just be a given every year because there will be a year where we get ****ed by it.

They honestly could just be looking at getting Hill a new deal and lowering his cap hit this year. Getting OBJ a new deal and having a decently low cap hit this year. And then possibly restructuring Thuney.

They need $9 million to sign their draft picks and then the rest will be filled with low number deals.

Next year, you can cut Clark, trade Jones and restructure Mahomes' deal....and gain $70 million in cap space.

I hope not, bridges have been burned and he is not good anymore

Yeah, but like I said, when you click on the link thing, it says the 6.8 or whatever. His signing bonus was pro-rated at $5.2 for instance, now it's at 7.475. So that's essentially adding 4.55 million in signing bonus to a base salary of 3.75 which would mean guarantees this year of roughly $8.3 million. Well that's not what's been reported anywhere.

That said, it IS about where I started with this whole thing when I said I figured we'd see about $8 million paid to him this year. Whether they plow it all into this year w/ base or do SOME base and SOME bonus is largely immaterial because again, rollover provisions mean that saving money this year just creates cap credits towards next seasons adjusted cap.

All that matters is the total amount of new money we're giving him. So it would seem like it MIGHT be $8.3 million in 'new' money.

There are just a lot of inconsistencies on Spotrac's own page. It's hard to know for sure.

But I'm gonna laugh if it's $8.3 million after I took an evening of cap-lectures from idiots when I got it pretty much exactly right doing nothing more than looking at his previous structure.

F-Off, Twitter jackholes.

:thumb:

What bridges were ever burned?

I don't think there's any ill-will between the organization and Sammy. By all accounts he was extremely well thought of.

He wanted more money and opportunity than we would provide. It didn't work out.

A reunion would actually make a ton of sense for both sides.

I think you are spot on.
This is looking more and more like a reload year.

So I've seen it said both ways:

"We must do something with PM's contract by today - it's the deadline"
&
"We can't do anything with PM's contract until today - now we can do it."


Which is it?

First one. Today is the deadline.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Green Bay Packers have obvious interest in trying to retain wide receiver Marquez Valdes-Scantling after Davante Adams trade, but his market is heating up with other NFL teams, per league sources.</p>&mdash; Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1504843930705309697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I was going to create a separate thread about this...but I was looking at just how "****ed" our roster is talent wise.

So basically our needs are:

RB2
WR2
WR4/5
DE1
DE3
DT2
LB3
LB4
CB3
CB5
S3

Yeah that LOOKS like a tons of needs but most of those positions aren't being filled by big name FAs or top 100 draft picks. Just getting a DT, DE, WR and CB in the top 100 of this draft would go along way to making this team better.

So I was wrong.

And it seems unfortunate as well because that likely means we're not going to do anything with him.

Gonna be interesting from here on out if we don't start making some signings soon. We don't need stars but we do need quality players.

And I took care of 4 of those needs with really good actual football players

It could be that....or it could just be Veach not restructuring his contract until he needed it. Unfortunately....no one knows what Veach has planned but him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Frank Clark’s 2022 base salary on the restructure dropped from $19M to $3.725M. His 2023 base salary remains the same at $20.5M. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1504832704470257674?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ha! So they did give him a signing bonus and give him $8.3 million in new money.

Yeah - tell me more about what I'm not understanding, Twitter Tards.

Per Nate Taylor on Times Ours…the Chiefs really had their eye on Za’Darius Smith but the back injury is concerning. Think we’ll still talk to him IMO but Nate mentioned money structure.

Thinks they’ll sign a vet WR. Chance for them to get a vet DL.

But again they will need to hit on the draft

Yep.

His cap hit went from $13.9M to $13.7M. We saved a couple hundred thousand this year by moving about $2M in dead cap to next year.

Overpaid

Anyone still want to defend this?

Wow

Maybe Ronald Jones or Sony Michel at RB. Draft one or two in the 7th

Yep.

Spotrac's table is incorrect for the "signing bonus" field. The contract description is correct:

They gave him $9M in new money, essentially and lowered his overall cap hit by a smidge but upped his dead money in both years.

So we’re eating an extra 7 million instead of just cutting him? Am I reading this correctly?

I think if we can land 2 veteran, solid players at those spots, I'll feel good heading into the draft.

There's not much to defend. If they cut him after this season, they're essentially paying an extra $2M over 2 years to get his body instead of cutting him and trying to find someone else.

It's a pure short-term cap move that actually makes next year marginally worse.

AT BEST, it's a cap neutral move. At best.

Brutal

We're not eating anything until we cut him. That's when the dead cap money hits.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chicago Bears are not signing Larry Ogunjobi because of a failed physical, per the team.</p>&mdash; Courtney Cronin (@CourtneyRCronin) <a href="https://twitter.com/CourtneyRCronin/status/1504846323341737998?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

But I was told the dead money went away...

Yeah the team also needs bodies. We have no starting DE’s without Clark. Gonna need to use those draft picks to get more impact players on the cheap

Well, to be fair, that's what several people with blue check marks were reporting. Hard to know what's real and what's not until we can see the contracts ourselves and even then, who knows (Spotrac appears to have the numbers correct but not in all the right places, there's errors in the tables to be sure).

Nobody is defending the Clark move. They could have cut him and saved a couple of million in dead cap space next year. They’d also be sitting here with Danna and Kaindoh as their DEs….while they had their dicks in their hands.

They chose a lukewarm body in Clark over the extra cap space next season.

And if they had cut Clark and done nothing like they are…people would be bleeding out of their vaginas about that too.

It's just really simple to figure out especially when you do the 2-year view of the transaction (which you should ALWAYS do because of rollover and the easy of manipulating June 1 tags, etc...).

Brett Veach valued Frank Clark at roughly a $8-9 million/yr player plus incentives. That's what we gave him in 'new' money vs. cutting him.

That's what could've gone to Arden Key or Derek Barnett or Charles Omenihu or a slew of other options.

Veach just continues to have a blind spot for Frank Clark.

Told you sonsabitches...

Probably.

But I would've been much happier.

And that's really what matters.

A lot of people would have been but I can see why they kept him.

He’s gone after this season and so far we’ve yet to miss out on guys like Key.

LOL

At least you're honest about it. :D

Very selfish for Veach not to consider this. I hope SR sends him a strongly worded Facebook message.

To be clear, they could have given that new money to someone but they'd still have to find the cap space because of Clark's dead cap hit. He was going to cost about $13M this year no matter how you slice it.

Dear Brett,

Take a hike bucko!

Yours truly,
- SR

Right and they chose keeping Clark on this team because they need bodies at this point. I don’t like it but I can see why they did it.

Still a lot of 1-year stopgap guys for DL..
Jadeveon Clowney, Calais Campbell, Melvin Ingram, Akiem Hicks, Matt Ioannidis, Sheldon Richardson, Quinton Jefferson, Johnathan Hankins, Trey Flowers, Mario Addison, Jerry Hughes

Potential longer-term guys with change of scenery..
Justin Jones, Derek Barnett, Shy Tuttle, Maurice Hurst, Dante Fowler, Arden Key, Al-Quadin Muhammad, Takk McKinley

Obviously Clark is still here because of money. Money he's owed and our lack of money to get a better player. Either way I think Veach is learning that losing that Bengals game ****ed us not only out of the SB but in FA. Players are no longer looking at us as the best destination in the AFC anymore.

We are still a very good option but not as attractive as we were prior to that loss.

Yeah I didn't understand why people thought you were wrong. It was classified as a restructure, not a paycut. The money had to go somewhere

I think because people trusted what they were reading on Twitter instead of just trusting their own gut on the situation.

Like you and DJ said, money doesn't just disappear. Which is why so many of us were waiting to see the actual contract - the numbers being reported over the last couple of days just didn't make any sense (and in some cases, still don't because of obvious errors).

Just like that... Justin Jones gone to Chicago after Ogunjobi failed his physical.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/UqSRKTUpNfMHp3me35" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/latelateshow-laughing-ron-burgundy-fake-laugh-UqSRKTUpNfMHp3me35"

Yeah, you'd have to June 1 him and then move some of Thuney's money around to free up some space prior to the cap compliance deadline. But since you're keeping Thuney next year anyway, it really doesn't matter. There's no harm, no foul there.

Just keep focused on the $8 million we're paying him. The rest are just shell games.

That's where people lost the thread a few nights ago.

Come on Veach it's my birthday today, KU dominated last night. Give me a present

The Chiefs have signed Mitch Lightfoot

He's too old