Might be able to get peko for cheap too. Just a one year fix. Agreed... I think offenses are exploiting defenses built to stop the spread with the power running game. We may need to have some fatties.

We are where we are because of neglecting the defense and making bad decisions when we did address the defense.

How many good draft picks on defense have we had in the Reid era? Chris Jones and Marcus Peters for 2 years pre atomic explosion? That’s all I can really think of.

Trade Chris Jones for high draft picks and build through the draft as well as signing another vet player or two like Alex Okafor for cheap.

That is exactly what Ballard has done and it has worked nicely for him. Veach has to hit on more defensive picks, and if he can’t do that, he needs to be fired.

Watching the last game I felt like I never saw any defensive lineman running stunts. They all just ran into the lineman and got stonewalled.

This is what they should do most of the time. They should get to their gap and hold and not allow the LB to get got in the wash as they scrape to the ball. I'm a huge Iowa fan and loved Hitchens, but he was not flowing well to the ball with or without a wash in his way... I also like Nieman, but he is a hustling special teams player and not a starting ILB... That's are most glaring weakness IMO.

Genuinely starting to get the feel that Sutton was not the problem. At the very least the man knew how to garner SOME pressure while having absolute dick for DBs. He even fielded one of the better defenses in the NFL when he first got here.

This defense is a complete mess. And although it doesn't look systemic, Spags OK'd Veach to grab these jerk offs so both of them get to fall on the sword for this.

There was already an enormous lack of talent on defense and it just looks like we managed to get even less talented. Like what the ****?

Sutton absolutely was part of the problem. Those coverages he threw out vs New England alone deserved to get him fired

The funny thing about that game is if Dee Ford doesn't line up off sides, Bob Sutton looks like a good DC who turned a bad defense around when in mattered most in the post season. We probably would have kept him and just tried to give him some better players to coach.

That one play changed so much.

We did have 48 sacks last year. And countless other ones that didn't count because of DPI.

Reactionary response creating revisionist history. What a steaming pile of shit.

Lol no. It changed the outcome of our season, but it didn’t change the narrative on Sutton. It did for Brady though.

If we won, it wasn’t because Sutton “turned a bad defense around”. They were still bad, the offense was just that much better.

Uh, if Dee Ford lines up right we win the game 28-24. Tom Brady finishes the game with 263 yards, 1 touchdown and 3 interceptions.

Are you going to lie and say that wouldn't have been a great defensive game and Sutton wouldn't have been credited for that?

If Dee Ford lines up onsides Sutton's defense would have had two good to great performances in the playoffs. Depending on what happened in the Superbowl, chances are that would have led to the chiefs giving him at least one more year to fix the defense.

So after Spags gets fired who’s the next DC?

Andy Heck

Sutton ****ing sucked. Are you kidding me with this shit?

Spags ain't getting fired. But Spags is diplomatically and quietly telling Andy "I can't even make lemonade out of these lemon type players"; I assure you. "We have very little talent Andy". "I can't walk on water !!:shrug:

I see little to no difference between Sutton and Spags.
D sucked then...it sucks now.

Chiefs have better corners this year...supposedly.

But not the pass rush, so the suckness is a wash.

:thumb:

It’s basically the same defense but in different ways.

Pass rush is worse but Safety is much better.
LB is a little better
Corner is slightly better
Run defense is the same

I think it's pretty clear now the common denominator is Chris Jones, Derrick Nnadi and Anthony Hitchens.

These guys just aren't going to be part of a good run defense it seems. It may be time to write off Nnadi as JAG.

Lol wut?

Nnadi is the only good interior run defender we have. Get a clue.

Nnadi is fine. He has a problem doing shut when Jones abandons his responsibilities to try and get sacks. Jones would rather be paid for his sacks instead of being paid for being an all around great DT.

Yeah, I'd like to see the numbers vs the run once Jones went out the other night. To my untrained eye, it looked better.

It's why I still think if you could trade for a CB or something, you could recoup it after trading Jones. I just don't know that you wanna pay him big money.

Sutton was/is terrible and his replacement isn’t much if any better. It has been well documented that Spag’s defenses have often finished at or near the bottom of the league.

Coordinators matter, putting guys in good positions, being unpredictable etc.

But the best defenses seem to always have a few things in common. Talent for one, then time. They usually are together for a while.

It has also been well documented that his personnel sucked when he had bad defenses. I really don’t understand why some of you can’t grasp this. It’s really not that complicated. If you have the talent you will succeed. Even Sutton had success when he had the talent.

No DC is good without good personnel. Look at the Ravens. Their DC looked amazing last year but now that they lost 4-5 guys on D he looks awful.

Wade Phillips was phenomenal in Denver, but he does’t quite have the talent at every position like he did then and his defense in LA has been about as inconsistent as it gets.

Fangio was pretty meh in Chicago before they had talent at every position.

Show me a DC in the NFL that has had success without the talent. I’ll wait....

Nnadi is the only one worth a damn on that line. Jones wants Aaron Donald money haha haha good luck. Donald actually plays the run too which makes him a absolute beast and one of the best ever

What kills me is that we traded a first and second round pick and then paid Frank Clark, and out defense is a steaming pile of dog poo yet again. Nobody expected them to be great, but damn this has been awful.

Giving up 19 points. So awful.

Clearly the offense was a problem. That being said, giving up time eating drives were everyone know they are going to run is THE PROBLEM.

Sure they only scored 19 points, but they still won because they played keep away. How did they play keep away? Well they did EXACTLY what everyone expected them to do, and kept doing it.

Thats the problem.

It is not THE problem.

The offense had multiple opportunities to go win that game. They had the same number of possessions they typically have.

THAT was the problem.

The defense isn't going to be perfect given the talent level. If they allow 19 points that should be a W.

<a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/3cxk5z"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/3cxk5z.gif" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

Exactly the case IMO as well.

Yip

We’re built like Manning’s mid-to-late 2000s Colts. D holding the O to 19 is about all you can ask for

He’s not a DC, and his defense, while overachieving, does have the talent to be good.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Carlos Hyde said neither Veach nor Reid told him he was traded. Just a random number called him and said “We just traded you to the Texans.” <a href="https://t.co/RFJbTvz2if">https://t.co/RFJbTvz2if</a></p>&mdash; Arrowhead Addict (@ArrowheadAddict) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArrowheadAddict/status/1182270578578866177?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Cue the Ray Finkel revenge gif

Does this mean we get to hear some more stories about how we're an asshole franchise cause of this and Maclin?

This has what to do with the defense?

Ahhh... The chicken or the egg? Is it the coach or the players? Is Brady great because of Belichik or the other way around? One thing the coach does there is find players that he can make better. Are they able to overcome less physical ability because they are smarter?

You can force a square peg into a round hole however that doesn't make it a good fit. At the end of the day, the players are responsible for making plays. Blame the coach, the GM or whomever you want however, the players aren't getting it done. Even if the players aren't top of the line, they have to be pretty good to even play at this level.

Does the coach make the DB run into the WR giving up a 50 yard penalty? Does the coach make DL unable to get off blocks? Does the coach make LB run into the backs of their own players instead of filling the holes? Does the coach make players arm tackle and play without discipline?

At the end of the day, it's on the players.

Poor Hyde we traded him somewhere which gave him an opportunity to start.

Oh the horror.

Veach is doing things the Dorsey way

Hyde was here for a cup of coffee and was injured most of the time in camp.

He is owed nothing.

This.

oh boo fricken whoooo, how much money do you get paid to play a game? :rolleyes:

Are we just as predictable as Sutton was when he was here? What happened to all the aggressive stunts Spags was going to bring to this defense? Why aren't the Chiefs moving Clark around more and trying to confuse the offense by finding some mismatches? I would have liked to see more blitzes packages and stunts to make Brissett beat us with his arm. Regardless of injuries the run defense needed help and Spags didn't take advantage of the situation.

**** Carlos Hyde.

It's possible he's just trying to get the defense to learn the basics before getting into that. I've heard his defense can be especially hard for DB's to learn. Also possible that we can't be aggressive because our DB's aren't good enough.

But there's also a possibility that we spags scheme isn't good and our talent is not good enough. I hope not

Maclin was cut, not traded. Besides, the guy is still getting a paycheck...it's not like he's ****ing homeless or something.

They have been. Check the game films.

Opposing offenses have been really good at keeping track of him and doubling him when he lines up inside, and stunts work better when the interior DTs actually get some penetration at the snap. When they get pushed back most of the time, Clark's getting either caught up in the block, or has to go backwards/upfield to get around the block.

However, they don't seem to be doing those things during the first drive or two.

How do you pick which random thread to post tweets to?

I would agree, but KC doesn't have the stud passrushers that the Colts had during Peyton's prime years.

If the thread is active he'll do it. He wants to be noticed LMAO

I know they have been moving Frank Clark around, I'd just like to see it more often than not. I would have also liked to see more of Ragland when teams decide they want to run it down our throats all game long.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Defense 2018 vs 2019<br><br>2018<br>142 1stD - 2,309 TotYd - 1,715 PassY - 594 RushY - 8 TO<br><br>2019<br>120 1stD - 1,965 TotYd - 1,186 PassY - 779 RushY - 7 TO</p>&mdash; Josh Webb (@shwebb29) <a href="https://twitter.com/shwebb29/status/1182417111815196672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">DVOA <br>2018: 25th<br>2019: 18th</p>&mdash; Bird Law Expert (@RealBirdLawyer) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealBirdLawyer/status/1182417636510064642?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Imagine what those numbers might look like if we had a LB corps that could actually play the run.

There isn't one single defender on this team that I feel "married" to. Just a bunch of faceless names and numbers. That's sad.

Right we should be happy with a number in the teens in terms of improvement. The offense will carry us as far as we're going to go.

Yip.

Defense is better overall but run defense is worse

PREACH

An Andy Reid yes-man is underperforming?

Perish the thought.

Like I said, this game proved Spags knows what he's doing.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCHING THAT 07 Giants tape. Ohhhh ohhh</p>&mdash; Tyrann Mathieu (@Mathieu_Era) <a href="https://twitter.com/Mathieu_Era/status/1185051902930649088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Superbowl winner! Our Dee better buy in and start riding the coattails!

One Game doesn’t define a legacy.

Spags knows how to win it all, proven track record.

At least it's a confidence builder

Uh when it’s that game? Yeah it does

At least it's someone who's been there.

Spags numbers thus far.

25th overall
12th scoring
14th in turnovers
10th against the pass
10th in TD passes
9th in net yards gained per pass
29th in rushing
27th in YPA
14th on third down
8th red zone TD percent

we're doing fine

Chiefs improvements in scoring defense, third down and red zone are massive right now.

In 2018 they were:

24th
25th
31st

Get healthy and KC will be the team to beat. I honestly believe that.

NE D will be exposed as just solid/above average when they start playing real teams.

Even before last night defense DVOA was ranked 20th in the league.

A lot of work to do yet, but we ARE improving. I don't believe anyone thought it would be a drastic difference in year one anyway.

Pass defense IS drastically improved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">According to <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>, the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a>&#39; defense pressured Broncos&#39; QB Joe Flacco on 42.8% (18 of 42) of his drop-backs last night.<br><br>Frank Clark led the Chiefs with six QB pressures. <a href="https://t.co/nNO7BUtOAW">pic.twitter.com/nNO7BUtOAW</a></p>&mdash; BJ Kissel (@ChiefsReporter) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsReporter/status/1185248024886419457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Last night was more of what I expected from the defense. Not that I ever thought I'd see 8 QB sacks in one game, but that kind of pressure was what I thought we'd see earlier in the season. Lots of stunts and twists from the line, attacking the offensive line. Some linebacker blitzes, but nothing too crazy exotic.

I wouldn't call one game a positive sign, it needs to become a trend, but taken alone that was one of the most dominant defensive performances I can remember. Even their sole scoring drive required what I thought was a questionable defensive hold call, or we might have shut them out.

And yes, their offense really is that bad, but we made them look even worse. And that's not what usually happens with our defense, going back years. That was definitely not one of our traditional "Career Day!" defenses.

So what did we do different on D to dominate like we did or was it just because we were playing a shitty ass team?

First off NFL network showed that they were running tons of stunts and we blitzed Flacco almost half the time. Players were playing their assignments and by trying to make the play themself. Lee was benched and Sorenson and Niemann got his snaps.

Second off Hitchens said after the game that they didn’t do anything different. They just had a better mentality. He said that week that the defensive leaders aka Honey Badger gathered the defensive players and said we are too good to play like we have been. We need to change. He uplifted the team and said this starts tonight!