I don't like him very much and posted it earlier. He's missing a tooth, and I don't like that about him.

**** Cole Beasley.

**** - looks like Veach is going to sleep on it.

I just want a veteran WR and then I am good.

I like this. Lots of ifs with this scenario but you sign Smith he somehow generates double digit sacks or produces pressure, sign a bargain bin vet corner to provide depth, snatch a DT with your first. All of a sudden this team is sitting pretty damn good and you've sacrificed nada of your future really.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Raiders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Raiders</a> have submitted an offer for 5x Pro Bowl FA CB Stephon Gilmore, per source.</p>&mdash; Jordan Schultz (@Schultz_Report) <a href="https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/1504680223668801543?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

OK Veach, right about now would be good.

Great. Gilmore is a bum

I’ll pass on Gilmore. The Raiders are just bringing in old Patriot players at this point.

I’d see how much Rasul Douglas would cost.

The AFCW trying to sign every 2017-2018 all pro player out there to beat Mahomes.

I can appreciate the age references, but I think it's also fair to point out that the Rams and Bucs won the last 2 Super Bowls by stacking their teams with aging vets chasing rings.

Julio, Jarvis, OBJ, & JuJu are still out there + MAYBE Michael Thomas.

I certainly wouldn't hate one of those vets being added to our squad.

Also, schefter just posted that the rams may potentially deal woods.

Jamison crowder has my interest as well.

Where have you seen Michael Thomas’s name cone up for trade?

Spoiling this due to freakish length after seeing Pest quote it:

You throw the ball to MVS and he drops the ball more than 50% of the time.

Still 12.5 yards/target and that's presuming no YAC...

Yup.

247 career targets
123 career catches

In 4 years with a HOF QB.

I would almost take Sammy back.....nah, nevermind...cant believe I even think that

8.7 career yards per target.

Even in the year where he was REALLY a problem with his drops (2020) and had 7 against only 33 catches, he went for 11 yards/target with 6 scores, four of which were over 45 yards. 6 scores on 63 targets seems pretty damn good to me.

My point is exactly that - I don't care if he's a possession receiver. Would I like to have a guy that can run a 4.4 and never drops a ball? Sure - those cost about $17 million if you're lucky.

But if my choice is the guy that runs a 4.65 and will drop 5 balls over 100 targets and net 7 yards/target or a guy that runs a 4.40 and will drop 10 balls over 60 targets and net 9 yards/target while putting the defensive backfield in uncomfortable decision scenarios, I'm taking the latter 100% of the time.

It's not even a close question.

You want to get teams out of this goddamn Cover 2, the answer is NOT to play the slice. It's to put someone out there that can force that FS into making uncomfortable decisions.

From what I can see, he has 13 career drops over 247 targets. So 5% of his targets are drops over his career (he had zero in 55 targets last year, FYI).

Shit, double it, I don't care. Give him 6 drops in 60 targets and give some rando possession WR 1 drop in 80. Doesn't matter if the latter is not forcing hard decisions or doing damage when he brings the ball in.

Moreover, over an equalized sample size the difference between 'bad hands' MVS and 'elite possession WR' Jarvis Landry is, what, 5 catches over the course of a season? Call it 8 if you want - fine. That's a drop every other game that MVS has that Landry wouldn't.

Meanwhile every time he catches it he goes for more yards than Landry would. And every time he runs a route he puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the secondary.

We do NOT need a possession WR. And the fact that possession WRs are getting murdered on the market right now demonstrates that teams know this.

Billay, don’t waste your time. The hidden “freakish length” is just words.

:LOL:LMAOLMAO

Saints say they're keeping him, but I'm pretty sure it was him that wanted out last year.

I'm not too high on Woods, I wonder what the price is?

Definitely not Crowder.

I think we disagree wholly on how to counter punch the 2 deep safety looks we’ve gotten from well prepared defenses.

The way to attack them is to attack the intermediate zones with guys that know how to find the soft spots with crisp routes and to run the damn ball. Things that FORCE them to play those safeties closer to the line as a setup for guys like Hill, Hardman and even Kelce to get their deep shots. We just didn’t have the Wars that Mahomes trusted to do that. Later in the year, he started trusting Pringle and Hardman more, but it was always lacking.

It’s why I am still disappointed we didn’t get a deal done with Robinson. He could have made this offense scary good right away in week one. I’m kinda wondering who can come right into this system and produce right away like that that’s left.

DJ makes a good case for Marquez Valdes-Scantling, but I'm still not buying bringing him in for the Chiefs.

It will be interesting to see if Green Bay Packers makes a push to try and bring him back to the pack.

"Oh, the agony of not having another WR!"

"Oh, the agony when Marquez Valdes-Scantling doesn't make the catch!"

And for my entire football watching life I would have agreed with you.

Then I saw how teams defended the 2021 Chiefs - they did. not. care.

It's what made CEH largely ineffective even when we gave him the ball. Give him the ball 20 damn times - they didn't care. They weren't going to come up. Let him have 5 - Hill and Kelce are so stinking good that they're STILL not coming downhill. They'll give up that 5 and wait for you to make a mistake before they come downhill and let Hill/Kelce gouge them for 30.

Throw underneath all day - you will not pull those safeties up. Because for about 8 weeks we DID over the latter part of the season and no, they weren't drawing safeties up on us. They were staying in the deep shells. They don't give a rip. They simply won't.

Moreover, I conceded that I'd rather have a do-everything X who can get deep AND run pristine routes over the middle. Of course that's preferable. But you CANNOT spend $16 million on Robinson, $15 million on Kelce, $20+ million on Hill, $20+ million on OBJr and $15 million on Thuney. You've dropped $85+ million on 5 players and haven't paid for your QB yet. That's simply not tenable.

So you have $5 million to spend on your WR2 - tell me what Landry or JuJu are going to do to convince these guys to pull their safeties down. We saw last year - they simply don't care. There isn't a universe where getting beat at 6 yards/pop by a plodding possession WR is going to be less of a worry for teams than getting torched over the top.

Conventionally I absolutely agree with you. But never in a million years did I expect what I saw from teams against this Chiefs team in 2021. I don't think Veach or Reid expected it either or they'd have never drafted CEH. Teams willingness to completely sell out against us because they simply didn't care if we took that short stuff is completely unprecedented. I've never seen anything like it and I said so at the time.

You can't attack what teams are doing against this squad like you would what they're doing against teams that don't have Hill and Kelce. Those 2 are just too damn good to scare teams with guys like Landry as a 'counter'. He'll never begin to tilt the scale in his direction.

He's just my example. I'm not married to him.

I AM married to someone with speed and a large enough catch radius to be able to put safeties in an impossible situation. If that's nothing more than praying that Jalen Tolbert or Alec Pierce can come in out of the 3rd round and hit the ground running, so be it.

But I don't want to see money burned on a slower or smaller possession style WR that doesn't present the kind of problems that a bigger, faster option would.

Who’d be perfect if he could actually get on the field between suspensions and injuries - Will Fuller.

Man that guy would do SERIOUS damage as the X here.

I thought D.J. Chark might be a used for the purpose that you describe (If he can stay healthy)

The contract that the Lions gave him was interesting. It kind of looks like a 1 year, $10 M deal but Lions have $4M for 2022 and then $6M in the void year of 2023.

Eventually it all has to get paid. They just delay $6 M for an extra year.

So here is a list of the top wideouts left.

Julio
OBJ
Aj Green
Juju
Landry
Watkins
MVS
Fuller
Washington
Pascal

1. Julio, Watkins, Fuller and Odell would be Injury risks. But getting one of them and drafting A receiver early could a smart move.

2. Aj Green had 848 yards playing alongside Hopkins and Ertz..plus a good running good that had a lot of carries.

3. Washington is only 25 and has had to play with bad QB's over the last two years.

4. Zach Pascal has had his injuries too but has been sneakily productive when he has a run of games and let's be honest his qb's have been poor aswell.

5. Juju and Landry are big names but I'm just not sure slot guys like them would make a drastic difference in our offense tbh.

I heard an interesting discussion on the way home from work a couple of days ago on NFL Radio Moving the Chains show. They were talking about how all of the defenses now are being built to combat the speed of offenses, and that the counter to this is that the 225+ pound RB's (give or take a few pounds. I can't recall the exact number they stated, but big RB's) are starting to have a field day because most of the back 7 defenders are not built to take the punishment those type of RB's deal out. They had some stats from the past season to back up their hypothesis.

Not sure if there is this type of back in the draft to stick behind out offensive line, but the argument they put forth does make sense.

I get the attraction, but just not worth it. Has nagging injuries all the time.

Yes but man, he makes Sammy Watkins look like iron man in comparison.

Dude's body just Fallin apart.

Logan Ryan to the Bucs who keep loading their roster.

Now this is where Blacktop comes in to tell us how the jesuits in the NFL offices are pushing all the talent into the AFC, so that Brady can have the clearest path to the SB in his triumphant return and then he will dismantle one of the AFC 'super teams'.

So, is Mayfield going to go to Seattle?

It was probably that fossil Gil Brandt who hasn’t said anything intelligent, insightful or accurate in 20 years.

Who knows what the script is this year? Nothing would surprise me after watching the Chiefs lay down and a sorry team like the Bungles get pushed to the SB. I'm gonna speak my mind.

Only a foolish idiot would deny that getting better running backs wouldn't vastly improve this offense against teams dropping everyone deep. I mean ffs Cinci were dropping eight guys smh.

The thing is that CEH will never make them move up because he's simply not good enough no matter how many times we give him the ball. Teams would move their safeties up if he was actually effective the games where he got a lot of carries. But if you're going to run the ball, and still be average at best at it, why would we change the defense?

Also even when we tried the underneath stuff, it was still too heavily dependent on Hill and Kelce. So we were taking away our biggest advantage just so we could take advantage of what the defense was giving up. We needed a guy that could keep Hill going down field and he could command coverage underneath and vice versa. We just had nobody, so defenses didn't have to change anything. Just stay back and force them underneath to Hill and Kelce cause no one else can do anything.

What the hell would weight have anything to do with it? You just need good backs. Jamaal Charles was 210 on his fattest day and if you gave him the defenses the chiefs are seeing today, he would average 7 yards a carry. And I'm only barely exaggerating.

No one is going to care about CEH when even if you give up the best blocking and biggest lane ever, he'll only "rip" off a 15 yard run.

Exactly. Clyde is average at best. Teams don't care about his 4 yard runs. He scares nobody. They don't even care about his occasional 8 yard runs. He never busts off 30-40 at one time. I bet Kareem Hunt could..sigh

CEH isn’t even Greg Hill

getting a better RB would only help if we actually would run the ball. I am not in love with our backs either but since Mahomes took over we throw it and throw it even after Hunt led the league in rushing with Smith. Bengals rushed 3 a lot in both games and we still didn't run the ball nor attempt to run it. Even when we struggle to pass the ball we just keep on passing hoping for the big break through play.

We throw it, that's the Andy way and it's the Mahomes way. Until Mahomes changes his brain we won't run the ball when we should.

Damn ProfootballFocus forgot about us! They didn’t include Wylie

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I believe a top class back would make Reid inclined to run it more. Hunt was great in the games he played with Pat and we need to get a back who can finally take advantage of what this line can do.

Naa, he had westbrook and shady for years and under-utilized them in the run game.

Philly fans biggest gripe with andy besides clock management was his refusal to run the damn ball.

So today is the deadline for Mahomes to restructure?

Yep that’s it.. Mahomes is the problem.. :rolleyes:

everybody just relax. We don't play games in March.

You are right but it’s General Manager season right now…

It was also incorrect.

We’ve gone over this before.

But keep using mouth-breathing dipshit Philly fans as your barometer for what a one of the most successful football coaches in league history should be doing.

Meh, at least two of those guys will end the season on IR. One of the Chargers will probably blow an ACL in training camp.

We were unlikely to be 'big splash' players in the first wave of FA. I mean, we DID sign Reid, maybe the second best FA safety available, and he's 25 and very likely to play up to or outplay his deal.

We're not in the kind of cap situation to sign a bunch of top tier guys.

We're much more likely to be players in the second wave, and in the late cuts.

It's just the way it goes when you've gone to 4 straight AFCCGs. Retain the guys you want to keep, let the others go, sign one or two expensive guys and the rest is bargain shopping.

We'll be fine. These other teams are trying to BECOME contenders; we already are and just need to keep the train rolling.

Absolutely. As I said - need speed at X and at RB.

But they respective analysis are independent of each other. Speed at X won't obviate the need for speed at RB, nor would a faster RB lessen the need for the speed at X.

So ****ed

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Extension talks on Tyreek Hill now must start at $25M. Better player than Davante Adams, but a Yr from Free Agency in the perfect spot with the Franchise Tag inhibiting his ability to get to market.</p>&mdash; Chad Forbes (@NFLDraftBites) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLDraftBites/status/1504615141954007044?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Raiders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Raiders</a> have submitted an offer to free agent CB Stephon Gilmore, per <a href="https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Schultz_Report</a></p>&mdash; JPA Football  (@jpafootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/jpafootball/status/1504680355151892498?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

As someone who knows jack shit about being an NFL GM, I'd be tempted to refuse to acknowledge the Adams contract in negotiations, because the Raiders front office is so reeruned.

"Adams isn't worth that much, and neither is any other WR."

If that means Hill's days with the Chiefs are numbered, so be it.

So is today the deadline for Mahomes to restructure?

You say this with every post.

Yes

Like I said - the rush on Hill was to try to get him signed before Adams re-set the market.

If his agents are coming back to the table with the 're-set' figures in hand, then it's time to walk away from the table and try again next year. There's no rush. He's under contract for the season and you have the tag. Meanwhile the market isn't going to re-reset between now and NEXT March.

And the onus to get the money moved off this year's cap is gone. There's simply nobody out there worth chasing at the moment.

I'd simply break off and head home. If he wants to talk about $22 - $23 million and offer a bit of a team friendly structure to ensure it gets done this year, okay.

There's no incentive for the Chiefs to push the issue anymore. Let Hill and his people come to you.

Football is not just x’s and o’s. We lost against the bengals bc mahomes lost his cool. He needs guys around him that make him feel confident and comfortable. There were plenty of wrs running around open in the second half of the bengals game. Getting open isn’t the only issue. MVS dropping balls is not that guy that keeps PM cool. Anticipate more than x’s and o’s. Anticipate pressure and frustration with mvs drops. Lack of trust develops. PM starts getting in his own head and over thinking. Sammy is the cheapest guy that checks the boxes. If he misses time, so be it. When sammy’s healthy PMs is better with Sammy on the field. If Sammy is hurt, next man up. It gives an opportunity for fountain or Gordon, maybe even Powell. As long as Sammy is healthy for the playoffs…

Why are we ****ed? Bc Hill wants to be compensated equivalent to his play??

Yep. But there are still WR's out there we need to pursue. I'd focus on JuJu and get it done.

And again, not married to MVS - just an example case.

PM did trust Watkins, though - I'll grant you that. Ultimately I think Sammy wanted another solid payday and wanted a chance to be a #1 target in Baltimore. Wonder if he got some of that out of his system and would be content coming back to someplace where he can be a Robin and be weird in relative anonymity.

He checks every box, no question.

**** it - bring him in if he's cheap. Bring in a developmental X behind him to get snaps when he inevitably misses 4-5 games. Then hope Sammy is healthy or the rookie is ready come December forward.

Cool - I can live with that plan.

Time to find a new team. No way they can win now. :facepalm:

I'd be perfectly fine with just about anyone at this point. They need bodies at every level almost, on both offense and defense.

Time to shop the $5 CD bin.

****Official 2022 Free Agency Megathread****
 

Sure.

Westbrook averaged 11.4 carries per game throughout his career.

Mccoy averaged 13 carries per game in all the years he played for andy.

For top level RB talent, that is not enough.

Leaguewide average for a starting rb is between 17-22 carries per game.

I dont know who the “we” is that have gone over it, but andy has always abandoned the run. There is almost 2 decades of proof.


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The only problem I see with that is that Hill and his agent aren't going to come down in that cooling off period. And if Hill has any kind of a decent year stat wise....it could cause him to go higher. Especially if the cap increases like it should.

Not paying now only increases the chance that you're paying more....or you're getting closer to trading him.

How do you rank tyreek? This website has hill at 6th best in the nfl and if we are talking future performance, I’m taking jamarr chase over hill.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...2022-offseason

7. Ja'Marr Chase, Cincinnati Bengals
1 OF 7

Andy Lyons/Getty Images
Remember when Ja'Marr Chase dropped a few passes in the 2021 NFL preseason and panic ensued that someone who had 20 touchdowns at LSU in 2019 had suddenly forgotten how to play?

Good times, folks. Good times.

Reunited with college teammate Joe Burrow in Cincinnati, Chase put together a stellar rookie year. He reeled in 81 passes for a franchise-record 1,455 yards and 13 touchdowns, blending a high-volume role with superb explosiveness at 18.0 yards per reception. Chase ranked third in the league with 651 yards after catch.

Sure, he dropped some passes in the regular season too. This level of production more than atones for an occasional mistake, especially given how reliable Chase was at LSU.

Cincinnati has an unmistakable star in the reigning Offensive Rookie of the Year.

6. Tyreek Hill, Kansas City Chiefs
2 OF 7

David E. Klutho/Getty Images
Even if he's not the fastest player in the league, Tyreek Hill is immensely difficult to contain because of his speed (sub-4.3 40-yard dash).

Through six seasons with the Kansas City Chiefs, he's totaled 479 catches for 6,630 yards and 56 scores. Last year, he tallied a personal-best 111 receptions while providing 1,239 yards and and nine touchdowns. It was his fourth campaign of at least 1,183 yards.

Along with six Pro Bowl trips, Hill is a three-time first-team AP All-Pro, including as a returner in his rookie year.

The 28-year-old Hill's presence is a key reason for Kansas City's ability to stress defenses both vertically and horizontally.

5. Stefon Diggs, Buffalo Bills
3 OF 7

Boston Globe/Getty Images
After five quality seasons on the Minnesota Vikings, Stefon Diggs has reached a new height of performance with the Buffalo Bills.

Josh Allen's rise to prominence, unsurprisingly, has coincided with Diggs' arrival. He posted NFL-high marks of 127 catches and 1,535 yards in 2020 and then collected 103 receptions for 1,225 yards last season. Diggs totaled 18 scores in those two years.

Diggs, 28, is renowned for both his sharp route-running and his propensity for making contested catches, which is a lethal combination. He can create room, yet he doesn't need space to produce either.

Chase will probably be closing the gap in a hurry, but Diggs is the AFC's best receiver heading into 2022.

4. Deebo Samuel, San Francisco 49ers
4 OF 7

Dylan Buell/Getty Images
If any players are more versatile than Deebo Samuel, their roles haven't showed it. Nobody in the NFL is utilized more brilliantly than Samuel in head coach Kyle Shanahan's offense.

Last year, Samuel gathered 77 receptions for 1,405 yards to pace the league with 18.2 yards per reception. The first-team AP All-Pro selection also rushed for 365 yards, averaging 6.2 per carry, and scored eight touchdowns on the ground, with six more as a receiver. He even tossed a 24-yard score.

Get the ball to your best player. Novel concept, right?

Based on where he aligns and how he can contribute, Samuel is the most dynamic wideout in the league.

3. Justin Jefferson, Minnesota Vikings
5 OF 7

Adam Bettcher/Getty Images
Two seasons, two second-team AP All-Pro honors. Decent start for Justin Jefferson.

Chosen with the No. 22 overall pick in the 2020 NFL draft, the LSU product pulled in 88 passes for 1,400 yards and seven touchdowns as a rookie. He followed that up with 108 catches for 1,616 yards and 10 touchdowns in 2021.

The 22-year-old wideout has already notched two of the five most prolific years in franchise history, which is a massive feat for any organization. It's especially true in Minnesota, considering Hall of Famers Randy Moss and Cris Carter both spent the majority of their careers on the Vikings.

Last season, Jefferson (27) finished second only to Kupp (30) in receptions of 20-plus yards.

2. Davante Adams, Green Bay Packers
6 OF 7

Icon Sportswire/Getty Images
If you prefer Davante Adams at No. 1, we're not arguing. This is a strong 1A/1B kind of discussion.

Over the last half-decade, the Green Bay Packers icon has developed into an outrageously precise route-runner who creates separation within three steps. Sure, it helps to have Aaron Rodgers throwing the ball, but Adams is a superstar on his own.

Most notably, Adams just earned first-team AP All-Pro recognition for the second straight year. He made 115 catches for 1,374 yards and an NFL-best 18 touchdowns in 2020 and then set career-high marks of 123 receptions and 1,553 yards with 11 scores in 2021.

Now that Rodgers has announced his plans to return, expect another monstrous season from Adams in Green Bay.

1. Cooper Kupp, Los Angeles Rams
7 OF 7

Jayne Kamin-Oncea/Getty Images
Which part of Cooper Kupp's 2021 campaign was most impressive?

Not only did the fifth-year receiver lead the league in receptions (145), but it also was the second-highest total in history. He also paced the league with 1,947 yards, 846 yards after catch, 30 grabs of 20-plus yards, 16 touchdowns and 89 first downs.

During the postseason, Kupp snagged a touchdown in each of the Los Angeles Rams' four games—including two scores in both the NFC championship and Super Bowl LVI. He ended the playoffs with 33 catches for 478 yards and six touchdowns, which rank first, second and second, respectively, all-time.

Kupp won AP Offensive Player of the Year and Super Bowl LVI MVP, along with finishing third in regular-season MVP voting.

Adams has tenure, yes. Kupp, though, just assembled a legendary season on the heels of consecutive 90-catch years. He's the most dangerous receiver in the game.

Hill is ranked like 5th in the league. Pay him that and he's probably good with it.

OTC has our cap space at $1.9 million.

Looking at the Frank Clark numbers.

Cap hit in 2022 of $13.7 million.
Cap hit in 2023 of $28.675 million. Dead cap hit of $9 million. Cutting him would give us $19.6 million.

Spotrac has a disclaimer that says "POTENTIAL OUT: 2023, YR, $0; $0 DEAD CAP" right before listing his 2023 cap numbers, including the $9M in dead money.

I don't understand how they're just going to make that dead money go away.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-c...k-clark-16787/

https://www.nfl.com/players/Kyle-Van-Noy/stats/

They were interested in bringing back Damion Wilson but he signed with Carolina. He had a very good year last year in Cullen’s D in Jacksonville. Kyle Van Noy will turn 31 later this month and had 5 sacks and 9 (excellent for a LB) passes break ups. Would be a nice Sam with rush ability.

It's weird that Spotrac has his new numbers but hasn't adjusted our salary cap. Where OTC has the updated salary cap numbers but doesn't have that 2023 Out comment.

That list of top wideouts is funny. I wouldn't take any of those dudes for this offense over Tyreek Hill.

Re: Sammy Watkins, if the price is right I'm OK with the idea of checking him out. It can't be the only move you make at WR, but he does more for this offense, when healthy, than anyone available in free agency besides a healthy Odell Beckham, Jr. or a healthy Julio Jones.