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Hydrae 04-20-2023 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 16909832)
Some cool shots here:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uouujjgkR3A?start=28900" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Unless it's a weird illusion, the ship really "leaned" away from the tower on launch.

It certainly looks that way. I wonder if that was due to the crater that it created underneath the launchpad.

I also wonder if that damage has anything to do with the 6 rocket engines that were not active. That is nearly 20% of the power they were expecting to use.

BleedingRed 04-20-2023 11:27 AM

We are going to need a bigger launch pad

DaFace 04-20-2023 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedingRed (Post 16909914)
We are going to need a bigger launch pad

At a minimum, they need a heavily-reinforced flame trench.

Donger 04-20-2023 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydrae (Post 16909887)
It certainly looks that way. I wonder if that was due to the crater that it created underneath the launchpad.

I also wonder if that damage has anything to do with the 6 rocket engines that were not active. That is nearly 20% of the power they were expecting to use.

Yeah, I wonder if it was intentional though just to make sure the tower didn't get damaged.

Donger 04-20-2023 01:57 PM

0:34

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My Autotrack software captures the moment that Starship lost control. Excitement was very much guaranteed. Great first attempt by the SpaceX team!<br><br>Tune in to hear our live reaction! <a href="https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NASASpaceflight</a> <a href="https://t.co/uutBwWSABz">https://t.co/uutBwWSABz</a> <a href="https://t.co/in201JaOiU">pic.twitter.com/in201JaOiU</a></p>&mdash; Michael Baylor (@nextspaceflight) <a href="https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1649052544755470338?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Donger 04-20-2023 01:58 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Liftoff from Starbase <a href="https://t.co/rgpc2XO7Z9">pic.twitter.com/rgpc2XO7Z9</a></p>&mdash; SpaceX (@SpaceX) <a href="https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1649097087248891904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DaFace 04-20-2023 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 16910282)
0:34

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My Autotrack software captures the moment that Starship lost control. Excitement was very much guaranteed. Great first attempt by the SpaceX team!<br><br>Tune in to hear our live reaction! <a href="https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NASASpaceflight</a> <a href="https://t.co/uutBwWSABz">https://t.co/uutBwWSABz</a> <a href="https://t.co/in201JaOiU">pic.twitter.com/in201JaOiU</a></p>&mdash; Michael Baylor (@nextspaceflight) <a href="https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1649052544755470338?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 20, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Crazy shot. It looks like it came from the spot where one of the burned-out engines was located, but that's by no means a confirmation that it was an engine failure.

It definitely seems like engine reliability is a bit of a problem for now. It could just be debris getting kicked up at launch, but one way or another, I don't think losing all that thrust is ideal.

Megatron96 04-20-2023 02:35 PM

So, it was supposed to explode?

Donger 04-20-2023 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16910344)
So, it was supposed to explode?

Sort of. The flight termination system worked perfectly.

Megatron96 04-20-2023 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 16910351)
Sort of. The flight termination system worked perfectly.

Okay. Seems like a huge waste of materials/equipment, but if they planned on the thing exploding, can't criticize. Yet.

DaFace 04-20-2023 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16910344)
So, it was supposed to explode?

It's not that they WANTED it to explode. It's that SpaceX's way of doing things often means things will blow up along the way.

NASA (and some others) spend years and years and years working everything out on paper and only build when it's ready to roll. They perfect every little thing (in theory), which does work (usually) but tends to be very expensive and time-consuming.

SpaceX believes that they can move a lot faster if they put together a minimum viable product, launch it, and see what happens. They build stuff cheaply, put sensors all over the place, and use what they learn each time to figure out what needs to be fixed. It's messy and destructive, but they tend to end up with VERY solid results at a much lower cost and timeline (or at least that's what happened with the Falcon 9).

Would they have loved to reach orbit today? Absolutely. Is it possible that there's a design flaw, and Starship will never be successful? Doubtful based on SpaceX's track record, but it's possible. But was today a failure? Nah. No matter what happened, this launch was ending with the rocket either blown up in the air or scuttled at sea. The only thing that really failed was they didn't get as much data from the second stage as they would have liked.

Donger 04-20-2023 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16910363)
Okay. Seems like a huge waste of materials/equipment, but if they planned on the thing exploding, can't criticize. Yet.

Musk said that anything better than blowing up on the pad would be a success. He may have even meant it.

Don't forget that SH had never flown at all until today, let alone with Starship attached to the top of it.

Donger 04-20-2023 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 16910371)
It's not that they WANTED it to explode. It's that SpaceX's way of doing things often means things will blow up along the way.

NASA (and some others) spend years and years and years working everything out on paper and only build when it's ready to roll. They perfect every little thing (in theory), which does work (usually) but tends to be very expensive and time-consuming.

SpaceX believes that they can move a lot faster if they put together a minimum viable product, launch it, and see what happens. They build stuff cheaply, put sensors all over the place, and use what they learn each time to figure out what needs to be fixed. It's messy and destructive, but they tend to end up with VERY solid results at a much lower cost and timeline (or at least that's what happened with the Falcon 9).

Would they have loved to reach orbit today? Absolutely. Is it possible that there's a design flaw, and Starship will never be successful? Doubtful based on SpaceX's track record, but it's possible. But was today a failure? Nah. No matter what happened, this launch was ending with the rocket either blown up in the air or scuttled at sea. The only thing that really failed was they didn't get as much data from the second stage as they would have liked.

I read that the plan was not to reach orbital velocity today. Not sure why not. Still planned on Starship "landing" NW of Hawaii so that's still moving at quite a clip.

DaFace 04-20-2023 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96 (Post 16910363)
Okay. Seems like a huge waste of materials/equipment, but if they planned on the thing exploding, can't criticize. Yet.

To give you the idea, NASA's Space Launch System (SLS) has been under development since 2011, has cost $24 billion dollars on development, and launched successfully in November of 2022 with an estimated ongoing cost of $2 billion per launch.

SpaceX has spent an estimated $3 billion on development over about 5 years so far, and they hope to get the per-launch costs down into the single-digit millions (though that's admittedly a lofty goal).

Megatron96 04-20-2023 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 16910372)
Musk said that anything better than blowing up on the pad would be a success. He may have even meant it.

Don't forget that SH had never flown at all until today, let alone with Starship attached to the top of it.

It looked like a good launch until it started doing the pirouettes and losing altitude; If they never planned on recovering the equipment, then it looked like a good launch right up to 1st stage sep (which obviously didn't occur).


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