This dude?

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Fred Patek?

Last guess - UL Washington

He's our 7/8.

No

Good guess! Forgot all about him....

Yes

Fair 'nuff; I thought I read they were moving up up to 6th; looks like he's still parked at 7. You can hide him well enough there.

But wouldn't you rather trade a couple of relief arms for a potential .900 OPS guy with a proven track record of post-season heroics?

wow, i was gonna say Mike Sweeney *boooo*

Somebody guess the answer, dammit. I'm genuinely curious.

*EDIT - Nice job, bird flu

You know how Darrell Porter died?




Tragically.

Well, we need those arms with slappys like Frenchy around. But yes, yes I would.

Porter reached base safely 276 times in 1976 as a ****ing Catcher.

That's nuts. Ichiro is impressed with that number.

I really liked Paul Byrd, saw like 10 of his home starts.

He was our number 6 hitter that year, too...7 the previous year.

I was wrong. Dye did it 99-01.

Loving this thread. Lots of names I have thought about in a while.

Tartabull last started in RF on opening day in 1991. How many RF can you name who have started there opening day since him? There have been 14.

Heart failure while pushing a stalled vehicle, correct?

I also recall that there were some rumors that perhaps his drug demons had caught up to him again and that it may have played a role in his death.

EDIT:

Guess they confirmed it was the coke that did him in, eh?

http://archive.apsportseditors.org/c...ns.first3.html

Wait until you see this list...

He was out snorting coke in his car. He went to a county park underneath the Missouri River bridge on MO Hwy 291 -which runs from Sugar Creek on the south bank towards Liberty on the north. He got coked up, his car got stuck in the sand on a tree stump, and it was a 100 degree day. He died trying to push his car out of the sand by himself. And this was after he had been thru rehab, and was giving kids "just say no" speeches. Sad example of a drug backslide.

You can read about it here:
http://www.bpsports.net/bpsports.asp?ID=3505

Just off the top of my head, I can only think of three -

Frenchy
Dye
Guile

I guess that just shows what a mishmosh cluster right field has been for this team over the years.

I think Gordon might have actually had a few starts in right, as well.

And you were arguing with me about importance of trading Soria when the team was complete ass. Can't win without a closer in the playoffs, etc.

Now, the playoffs are a "real" possibility, and you're advocating the team trade two of its key pieces in the pen, including the likely closer?

OK. DM might be dumb enough to fall for this shit, but a decent number of posters in this thread won't. We're not STL fans; you're not getting ****ing ovation when you exit.

Costa?

Jose Guillen
Mark Teahen
David DeJesus
Jeff Francouer
Jermaine Dye
Aaron Guiel
Reggie Sanders
Michael Tucker
Emil Brown
Matt Stairs
Jon Nunnally
Felix Jose
Jim Eisenreich
Danny Tartabull

Good god..

guy just googled that and ruined trivia time

thanks a lot

Wow. Now there is a list. Felix Jose, lol.

And I got Gordon confused with Teahan. It's like they had no conceivable idea on where to play him.

baseball-reference is the best. I could have sworn Damon started in right, but I guess not.

That list is vomit inducing.

Eh. The way Saul Good was completely stumping everyone, that question might have took two and a half days to answer.

I don't even remember Felix Jose. Who the ****?

Another cool tidbit: Hal Mcrae started at DH from 1976-1985 for 1429 games. Mind boggling number of games at a non-fielding position...

Dye and Tartabull were both very good for their day. The Royals paid Sweeney and had to let Dye and Damon go, because they were too cheap to hold them together as a group. If the Royals were the Yankees, they'd have had a starting outfield of Damon, Dye and Beltran, with Sweeney as DH, all in their prime. But noooooooooo.....

I think Hal McRae, Edgar Martinez and Jim Thome are the best DH guys of all time. All three should be in the HOF.

Is Herrera really your likely closer?

You want it to happen. Hell, I want it to happen; Herrera is a blast to watch.

But does Yost? Don't you think it's pretty likely that Holland pitches just well enough to burn up every ounce of rope he has about 3 times this year, only to hang onto the 9th like grim death every time? Yesterday was a prime example; it proved more than any outing he's had to date just how ill-suited he is for the 9th, but I guarantee you that closing out that game bought Holland another blown opp. And if he saves 3 or 4 more, ugly or not, he'll get himself a whole week of rope.

You saw what Yost did last year with Broxton; he wasn't going to make Holland the closer, no how scary Brox made the 9th and no matter how much better Holland looked. Now you have the same situation but with a better pitcher on the hill in Holland. I just don't see Yost yanking him unless he craters for a 3-4 games in a row and Holland is a better pitcher than that.

Even if he can't spot his heat, that slider's nasty enough that he can go out there and throw 15 straight sliders and somehow get guys chasing over and over again. Brad Lidge made it for 2 more years than he should have after he lost his fastball command by doing the same thing.

I remember Matt Stairs actually hit a grand slam in the sixth inning once, and some lucky shlup won 25K.

There's no way any one person would remember the revolving right-field door for the last 22 years without looking it up.

Herrera was getting hot last night. And I'm going to have to give Yost credit for going to him so early in the year in Philly. I know it seemed like a common-sense move (and it was), but these old-school dipshits like Yost have a hard time going against the conventional wisdom at times.

No to Aaron Guiel, Emil Brown, Jim Eisenreich, Tartabull, and Nunally.

Stairs also injured himself playing hockey with the broadcast crew on a road trip.

Jon Nunnally
is the only one i couldn't get.

Matt Stairs was so drunk and hungover after tequilla that he kept his head down on the ball. There you go professional hitter with his head down all the time. I heard stairs was pissed when tony pena jumped into the shower with is uniform after the game as well.

Last night is a bad example. Holland came torrential downpour. His first walk was bullshit and should have been a K. The hit was a dunker off the end of the bat that should have been caught but was misplayed by Cain. If that happens, it's a 1-2-3 inning.

Are you sure on Guiel? I thought I remember them making a big deal about getting to start the season in right field against the Yanks at Yankee Stadium one year?

I'll take your word for it, but that thought is stuck in my head.

He never started in RF on opening day.

I'm sure. I think his first ML game was in Yankee Stadium, but it wasn't opening day.

I think Holland will be OK too, but he really needs to come in and have a major door slam close appearance, without a bunch of walks. We keep talking about how good the Royals defense is, but you can't defense a walk. Trust the guys behind you and attack the strike zone. Hopefully Holland will get his control back. I like his attitude on the mound, but he seems to be channeling Broxton these days....

Of the five remaining, two have been mentioned in the thread today, and one of the others belongs on the all-washed-up team.

Okay, so I ask again - is Kelvin Herrera really your likely closer come September/October?

I don't see it as anywhere near a sure thing. I'd probably put the odds at 50/50 at best.

No. Holland is the closer.

obviously Juan Gone

Baseball-reference.com is the best website ever. Here is every opening day lineup for the Royals.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/te.../opening.shtml

Aaron Guiel started in LF on opening day Mon, Apr 5, 2004 against Mark Buehrle.

Yep

Why would we trade him in your scenario if you are basically arguing that Herrera isn't expendable?

A) Because nobody's going to trade you a middle of the order hitter for a guy that's "expendable".

B) I'm arguing that there's a decent chance that he's nothing more than a setup man for the Royals this year and if that's the case, dealing Herrera would absolutely be dealing from a position of depth to handle a position of weakness. That's what you're supposed to do in this game.

I mean c'mon, put this on it's ear here. Let's say Holland blows up tomorrow and the Dodgers, who have Kenley Jansen on their roster buried behind Brandon League, come offering you Kenley Jansen and JP Howell for Billy Butler, you know that Billy Butler is a hell of a lot more valuable than Jansen and Howell. He's a middle of the order hitter. Sure, you'd have a hell of a nice setup man behind Herrera (who would've assumed the closer role after Holland blows up), but who would give up a middle of the order bat to secure an elite setup man?

That's the scenario you're being presented with here and people are really just casually dismissing it as a bullshit deal? Royals fans would flip their shit if the Royals traded Billy Butler, a middle of the order hitter in his prime, to get a LHRP and a premium setup man, even if they suddenly had a need for an arm to cover the 8th inning. A setup man and lefty simply aren't as important as a premier hitter and that's what you'd be getting in return for them.

Who is the premier middle of the order hitter we would be getting back? (I think I missed that part).

Herrera's WAR last year was greater than Craig's, and the Royals are operating with a two-year window here.

There isn't another poster on this board who has advocated more strongly for trading relievers, since they tend to flash rather than sustain success, but we have to play behind DM's moves, for better or worse.

The WARs are a wash, but substantially weakening our pen would be very, very stupid in a win-now movement.

Who are you comparing to Butler?

Craig.

Butler's probably a better hitter, but they're actually very similar in that regard. Their rate stats were extremely similar last year but Craig hurt his knee early in the year so he missed some time. Otherwise the counting stats would've been almost identical as well. Their hitting profiles are extremely similar; both RH doubles hitters with homers that are mostly liners that make it out of the yard and can hit line to line. Where Craig hasn't done it as long as Butler, he can play an OF position, notably one that the Royals have a problem at. Butler's going to be the more valuable commodity, but not by a shitload.

Perez is, at least, on par with Molina.

I don't think Craig is that much better than Frenchy that we would need to bother weakening our bullpen significantly in order to get him. You can't simply brush off the fact that Craig has some injury issues either.

Yeah, no.

Expound.

Yes, Butler's done it longer. But if Craig performs this year like he has the 2 years prior (yes, 2011 was only a half-season, but his post-season was amazing and long in its own right), can you really continue to argue that Butler's a far superior hitter? Especially when Craig was also an elite hitter in the minors that was blocked by Lance Berkman in RF and Albert Pujols at 1b; hardly shitty company.

They're extremely similar hitters. I'm hard pressed to find 2 guys that are more alike from a purely offensive perspective, to be honest. Let's not forget that Allen Craig garnered MVP consideration last year.

I don't want to hijack your Royals thread any more than I already have, but I think it's fair to discuss players without unnecessarily discounting their performance. Butler's among the better 'professional' right-handed hitters in baseball. But y'know what? So is Allen Craig.

I remember he was an Oakland Athletics prospect at one point. However I don't remember Larry Sutton? Who in the **** was Larry Sutton?

Lefty swinging, light hitting first baseman.

I think you need to re-evaluate your assessment of elite minor league hitting. Also, Butler is two years younger than Craig and has been performing at the major league level since 2007. So don't dismiss five years of production like it is meaningless.

Looks like he started opening day RF in 1998. Also, I remember Kevin McReynolds when he was with the Mets he was a real asshole in Spring Training in Florida to a friend of mine when he worked at the park. Was McReynolds still a turd here?

I'm not. But at some point, sample sizes equalize when discussing future performance. If Craig has another year like he did last year, you're looking at 2.5 years of performance right on par with the best production of Butler's career (and let's not act like it was all win and roses with Billy, a lot of you guys were ready to run him out of town until last season). Personally, I'm comfortable saying that Craig will duplicate that performance, though he does have to make a slight adjustment right now; he's not driving the ball terribly well.

But if he makes that adjustment and gets you to 1000+ ABs at a very high level, isn't it fair to say that Craig is what he is and that player is a hitter that is very very similar to Butler? And while Butler is younger, he's also a fat guy and fat guys don't always age terribly well. Craigs a much better athlete.

Butler wasn't a better hitter than Craig in 2012. He had more ABs by virtue of not being able to play defense and therefore avoided the injury that Craig had, but when both guys were in the lineup, they were extremely similar hitters - surely you'll admit that.

And ultimately, I'll admit that I"m probably jumping the gun a bit and taking his 2013 performance for granted. I've seen Craig play under the brightest lights imaginable and excel. I've seen him hit a bomb in game 7 of the World Series and then turn around 2 innings later, reach over the wall and bring back a HR of his own. I've seen him in spring training in person and seen him develop as a hitter. I'm absolutely comfortable establishing his baseline as his 2012 performance because the guy is fearless and he's flat talented.

And if he reproduces at his 2012 level, I don't see how you can still claim that Billy Butler's a significantly more valuable property unless Butler takes a major step forward as well.

PLEASE. Craig had two significant advantages: He batted in St. Louis and he batted in the NL. Billy is just getting into his prime. Craig should already be in it.

How is batting in the NL an advantage?

Pitching in the NL is as good as it is in the AL; it's the offenses in the AL that make it a little scarier than the NL. The NL hasn't been winning the World Series of late through hitting teams into submission; it's been pitching. As to batting in STL, I can only surmise you're referring to the lineup around him, but that really fell hard in the 2nd half last year and it was Craig that did almost all the heavy lifting after Beltran collapsed then Berkman and Furcal went down for the year. The offense remained scary because of Craig.

And again, Butler being 2 years younger than Craig is at least partially offset by Butler being a fat guy. His prime is going to come a little sooner and decay a little sooner (though the 'fat guy skills' tend to fall off more gradually) than a guy that's more athletic.

Oh, and you'll be paying Billy Butler $40 million over the next 4 years whereas Craig will be getting $19 million over those same 4, so coming at 1/2 the price over the same period surely doesn't hurt his trade value, does it?

You have the more established hitter. We have a more athletic hitter that can actually play the field with a decent track record of his own and an immediate history that is extremely comparable to your hitters at half the $$. I fail to see how there is a massive disparity in trade value there.

Royals lead the division in runs scored and fewest allowed. Our run differentialis 16 ahead of the next best team in the division.

Not bad given the 0-2 start.

Another tidbit: Yesterday was the 40th anniversary of Kauffman(Royals) Stadium. 4/10/73!

My Dad took me to the first ever game played at Royals Stadium. We beat the Texas Rangers that day. Great memories...

Its still a beautiful stadium...only beef i have is too many ads in the outfield, but thats a problem with alot of parks now.

if you look at film from the 30s, 40s, 50s....parks are covered in ads