Someone suggested #32 + #64 + 2025 1st for #9 with CHI for either Nabers or Odunze in another thread, would not hate that one bit.

In the end, I think I'm settling on a smaller trade up for BTJ. Say #32 + #94 + 2025 3rd to MIA or PIT for #21-20.

Kelce
Thomas Jr
Brown
Rice
Watson
Moore
Toney KR/PR

^That feels pretty complete to me, could probably sign Brown for a couple more seasons before we need to pay Rice.

Question for y'all. If you watch film on Xavier Worthy, do you honestly see a 4.21 guy? I watch his film and I see maybe Mecole Hardman, but definitely not Tyreek Hill in terms of speed and acceleration. Even on long plays when he does score, there are guys that are pacing him or nearly so. I never see him just dust other players like Legette or even Franklin do. You know what I'm talking about. He looks like he's running in fast forward compared to everyone else on the field. Like watching Tyreek highlights or Bo Jackson or Neon Deion. With his speed off the field, you'd think you would see him just render useless the angles that defenders take. I'm honestly curious as to your thoughts about him. I just don't see a burner like he's being hyped as, due to his 40 time.

I mean he's obviously fast, but in all honesty no, I don't see that sort of speed. It's clearly enough to separate but it absolutely doesn't look freaky, generational type speed. I also don't think his lateral quickness and agility is anywhere near as impressive. I've heard people compliment that but I just don't see it at all.

This is why I don't put a ton of stock on 40 time and instead look at film/game speed more. To run a good 40 you have to already be fast, sure, but there is so much technique that goes into it as well. I think a lot of these players are studying the techniques needed to show out at the combine and put up better numbers than maybe they would normally, a la Mike Mamula. I see several players with better on field speed like Legette, Franklin, Thrash, Nabers, and Cowing than Worthy tbh.

I feel this way about AD Mitchell's tape. He ran a fast 40, but even admits he never runs full speed in the game.

I was high on Mitchell and Legette until i started watching plays where they didn't get the ball/their number wasn't called. Legette especially had some reeeaallly low effort plays, but Mitchell was up there too. That "laziness" scares me. I don't know how you fix that. It's like catching. Either you know how to catch the ball by now or you don't. Either you know how to buckle down and work hard or you don't. Giving them millions of dollars isn't going to motivate them to suddenly put in 100% effort. I think we see a lot of busts from this WR draft between Rds 1 and 2 if teams aren't looking at this and just drafting off combine numbers or potential. I think some Rd 3 and later guys like Burton and Cowing, and McCaffrey have a better shot to ball out than guys like Worthy who is MVS lite IMHO.

I think this is a Texas thing. I wonder if they are coaching it? The offense is so gimmicky - its built on half field reads so only half the field even matters. If the read is on your side, I think they are supposed to wear out the corners by taking those boys down the field over and over again. Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, the receivers are jogging half-assed routes. It's weird - but universal to the Texas players.

In their defense I would admit that WR runs a lot of routes during the game, I doubt I could run a full sprint 40 right now without throwing up lol

Mod socks and I talked about it several pages back. ADs tape on plays where he doesn’t get the ball is so bad. It almost has to be coaching.

Worthy, franklin and legette are rated way too low, respectively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends who you ask.

The analytics guys on Twitter love Worthy and Franklin but Jeremiah was an actual NFL scout and Brugler is one of the top amateurs and their rankings are pretty much what I laid out a while ago.

Yeah, if Franklin is sitting there at the end of the second round, they'd have to take him regardless of if they took a receiver in the first round. No way does he last that long.

Jeremiah has Worthy at 35 and Franklin at 41st overall. Not really comparable to where Brugler has them.

And this idea that it's just analytics guys that like Worthy and Franklin is nothing more than a narrative.

I was told that placing Franklin in the 2nd was crazy by CP.

That’s hogwash. Plenty of guys have that competitive edge and stay out of trouble.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Easily the two most difficult prospects to settle on ranking in this year&#39;s WR class: Troy Franklin and Xavier Legette.<br><br>How I feel changes game-to-game and shoot, sometimes route-to-route. And ultimately, I could feel dramatically different about their outlook depending on where…</p>&mdash; Matt Harmon (@MattHarmon_BYB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1778786214855798909?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Either but Franklin makes more sense bc he’s an outside coverage beater. Neither is a clear round 1 player imo</p>&mdash; Matt Harmon (@MattHarmon_BYB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1778791753115422937?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">big outside receiver you dont need to line up at X to run crossing routes? that can make sense</p>&mdash; Matt Harmon (@MattHarmon_BYB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1778787489672499347?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Post a single person that said you putting him in the 2nd specifically is "crazy".

I'll wait...

"Neither is a clear round 1 player"

Yea, basically anybody you take at 32 won't be you butt****ing moron.

You realize there are significantly less than 32 1st round grades in every draft, correct?

I'm not going to waste my time searching posts but that is exactly how I was treated for stating I thought Worthy and Franklin were 2nd rounders.

You are revising history.

The big question we should be asking ourselves is how much disparity is there between the late 1st rd WR’s like McConkey, Franklin and Worthy and guys like Tez Walker?

Bc Tez Walker is a guy with high upside that was a weapon in college and could be really high potential here. He’s not my favorite but he’s undoubtedly a high ceiling player who could win the way DK Metcalf does downfield.

And for the life of me I don’t get the 3rd rd grade for Jalen McMillan. That guy is ****ing good. He’s a football player who knows how to get open. He knows how to vary routes and he knows how to find the open space.

Don’t care that he ran a 4.47. Tank Dell ran a 4.49 and had the same skills and the guy was amazing last year.

I like McMillan but see him as a possible future starter like Marvin Jones. That's a nice find but I want more upside with a 1st or 2nd round pick.

Pretty sure MHJ, Nabers and Odunze are the only unanimous WR’s with first rd grades. I’d say probably half or more of teams have BTJ as a first rd prospect and maybe a handful of teams grade Mitchell as a 1st rd talent.

There’s usually 15-18 players in a draft with first rd grades so the odds aren’t high more than 4 WR’s are graded that high.

Exactly, so considering nobody has ever thought Worthy and Franklin are out of our range, nobody would say it's "crazy" to give them a 2nd round grade.

You argued with me over and over and over when I said I thought they were 2nd round prospects.

You were really worked up.

There is no way that half the teams have BTJ as a 2nd round prospect.

Your contention that only a few teams have Adonai as a 1st rounder is based on what exactly?

Show me where I was arguing specifically against a 2nd round grade or STFU

[QUOTE=staylor26;17424164]Wow, very bold of you Captain Hindsight.

Rice would easily be a 1st in a redraft, and Reed would be a high 2nd. So you mean to tell me you'll take the proven commodity over the mystery box at 32? Shocker!

Exactly what ****ing point do you think you're making here reerun?[/QUOTE]



Look at how mad he got when I mentioned that the guys being promoted for a 1st round pick for the Chiefs were not as good as guys that went in the 2nd last year.

LMAO

You two argue like you are gay lovers fighting over who tops whom tonight.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/89/0f/de/8...c61482b598.jpg

I would prefer to just talk draft but some people get way too invested into players where if you criticize their guy they take it personally.

The actual ****ing argument.

Still waiting for this:

[QUOTE=staylor26;17480767]


Triggered.

No, you just don't know how to quote a post correctly so I was trying to fix it in an edit before finishing my post. You had your chance to show me where I, or anybody else, argued against Franklin having a 2nd round grade, and all you found was me telling you were making an irrelevant point playing Captain Hindsight.

Thanks for proving for the millionth time that you're a ****ing liar. Not a single person told you you were "crazy" for having Franklin in the 2nd round.

I've been here since 2007 and never once put somebody on ignore. You're about to be the first.

Go ahead snowflake. You're more emotional than most chicks.

ESPN just put this out just an FYI

Projecting The Top Wide Receivers In The 2024 Class
PLAYER SCHOOL PLAYMAKER SCORE PLAYMAKER RATING
Malik Nabers LSU 779 99.3%
Brian Thomas Jr. LSU 750 99.0%
Rome Odunze Washington 693 95.9%
Marvin Harrison Jr. Ohio St. 671 93.4%
Adonai Mitchell Texas 631 86.4%
Xavier Worthy Texas 577 94.5%
Keon Coleman Florida State 514 78.2%
Troy Franklin Oregon 480 83.5%
Devontez Walker North Carolina 447 78.6%
Ladd McConkey Georgia 441 58.2%
Ja'Lynn Polk Washington 438 92.3%
Xavier Legette South Carolina 429 47.1%
Jalen McMillan Washington 409 87.3%
Malachi Corley Western Kentucky 354 74.3%
Jermaine Burton Alabama 304 41.0%
Luke McCaffrey Rice 295 87.0%
Roman Wilson Michigan 292 56.1%
Ainias Smith Texas A&M 286 46.8%
Javon Baker UCF 284 45.2%
Ricky Pearsall Florida 266 21.6%
Jamari Thrash Louisville 250 58.8%
Johnny Wilson Florida State 250 73.7%
Jacob Cowing Arizona 203 69.3%
Brenden Rice USC 191 37.0%
Malik Washington Virginia 164 62.1%
Bub Means Pittsburgh 158 17.6%
Tahj Washington USC 157 39.3%
Lideatrick Griffin Mississippi St. 133 19.0%
Marcus Rosemy-Jacksaint Georgia 124 14.2%
Tayvion Robinson Kentucky 118 22.1%
Anthony Gould Oregon St. 116 53.1%
Cornelius Johnson Michigan 115 14.7%
Jha'Quan Jackson Tulane 91 10.0%
Devaughn Vele Utah 90 53.2%
Jordan Whittington Texas 86 40.2%
Isaiah Williams Illinois 57 31.8%
Xavier Weaver Colorado 31 15.6%

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/sto...omps-prospects

The note on McCaffery is interesting. They’d have him 8th save for his rating by SCOUTS inc. Worthy would rank ahead of Mitchell if not for SCOUTS, too.

CP life is better.

McCaffrey's going to be a nice mid-late round gem.

Didn't Worthy out produce Mitchell in college?

You think McCaffrey goes somewhere in 4th round? As high as 3rd round?

What about Brenden Rice? I thought most had him as a 3rd rounder, but also saw the chargers had him for a top 30 visit.

I think they're both in that 3rd-4th range, but the publics big boards are always different than the true NFL scouts boards so there's always surprises.

Matt Miller on ESPN ranked Troy Franklin #68 today, just behind Polk.

...Bit of a hot take there IMO

I think Miller is looking at how far Jalin Hyatt fell last year and where teams valued a faster guy who can stretch the field...and that's pretty much it. I would guess that Miller himself may value Franklin a little more than his ranking shows, but he's probably hedging his bet against a Hyatt-esque fall

He has Worthy #26.

He's also pretty high on Gould, has him just below Burton at #116.

Johnny Wilson has to be the hardest projection at WR in this draft.

What round do you guys think he goes in?

Kind of surprised that Brenden Rice has fallen as far as he has. Maybe we have a legitimate shot at him?

4th Rd minimum. Not too many successful dudes in the NFL that are 6'7", especially at skill positions. Also bro had some drops. You will get a team intrigued by him in the 4th or maybe 5th though that takes a flyer on him.

I've honestly ignored Wilson a lot throughout the process, but when I actually watched, he's a better prospect than I was expecting.

I don't think he has to move to TE. I think he can legitimately play X. My biggest concern beyond his outlier profile is his hands, but if he can clean up the drops, he could be a steal.

I've consumed so much content by now that I am not sure who's take I am agreeing with, but a take that resonated with me was that after the big 3 WR, the next two who have a reasonable shot to develop into a #1 WR eventually are are BTJ and AD Mitchell.

I don't think the Chiefs are getting any of the top 5 WR without giving up some notable capital, and trying to go up for a chance might be eventually be a 1, over just taking a good receiver in round 2 or hell maybe even round 3 who is just going to make your offense better does not sit right with me.

He has the exact same measurements as Plaxico Burress did.

I agree, personally see it like below:

1st Round Talent
Harrison Jr
Nabers
Odunze
Thomas Jr

2nd Round Talent
Mitchell
Franklin
McConkey
Worthy
Coleman
Legette
Polk
R Wilson
Burton
Pearsall
Walker
Baker
Corley

BTJ is the only WR I really want in the 1st, others I wouldn't mind us taking ahead of 2nd, but there are a lot of options for us to move up in that 2nd round to target "our guy" amongst that list which feels more likely, will be plenty of talented WRs that fall into the 3rd as well.

The consensus board has 9 WRs graded from 33-64.

Also what round do you think Terique Owens from Springfield gets drafted? I saw he met with chiefs

I think I've been sleeping on Roman Wilson a little. For me at least i've kind of over looked he and Polk.

Undrafted imo.

Nick Wright changed his Chiefs pick to Franklin

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">All Round 1 WRs to Average &lt;85.0 YPG in Best NCAA Season (2014-2024)<br><br>John Ross (81.4)<br>Breshad Perriman (80.3)<br>Jalen Reagor (80.0)<br>Quentin Johnston (76.2)<br>Kelvin Benjamin (72.2)<br>Calvin Ridley (69.7)<br>Phillip Dorsett (67.0)<br>Henry Ruggs (62.0)<br>Adonai Mitchell (60.4)<br>/end of list</p>&mdash; Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1780280911482822957?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Woof.

I'd still take him at 32 with little hesitation, but the production concerns are legitimate.

Oh for sure. That group is rough.

Ok... sooooo what is he getting at here?

That's not the best endorsement, is he suggesting Mitchell will be a bust because he played well in college?

Seems like a meaningless stat he posted.

"<85" means "less than 85 yards"

He averaged 60 yards per game, which was worse than everyone in that list, and they were all busts. Just a data point, but certainly a valid point to consider.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Well, it’s not just that he looks the least like a Round 1-pick of any Round 1 WR in a decade. He’s also in the bottom-left of every graph I’ve seen this year that deals with any efficiency/production metric we know to be predictive (e.g. worst in class by YAC/R)<br><br>So yeah, to…</p>&mdash; Scott Barrett (@ScottBarrettDFB) <a href="https://twitter.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1780294525136630265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 16, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ahhh I see! Gotcha!

Yeah, AD is pretty much the only WR in this class that I don't like.

Just feel like he's getting way too much attention for little production, and his game speed looks slow to me.

Ultimately, I think we need to take a WR with big-play home run potential.

BTJ
Worthy
Franklin
Legette

These types of prospects are more attractive to me than say a Ladd McConkey or AD Mitchell.

We have great possession guys already in Kelce and Rice.

Yeah. I talked about not being a 1k WR in college at any point a while back when I was arguing with MM back and forth. 85 per is 1100 at 13g and 1200 at 14g. That ups the bar even a bit more.

The 1st Round WR class should be Harrison Jr, Nabers, Odunze, Thomas Jr, and Franklin. You know Worthy is going to get in there because of speed even if he's kind of teetering on that edge. All these other guys getting 1st round buzz just don't have 1st round-caliber production and it matters in my opinion.

I agree 100%.

My Final WR Rankings 2024

I won't be anywhere near consensus, I'm sure of that.

Round 1
01. Marvin Harrison Jr., Ohio State
02. Rome Odunze, Washington
03. Malik Nabers, Louisiana State
04. Brian Thomas Jr., Louisiana State
05. Troy Franklin, Oregon
06. Xavier Worthy, Texas

Round 2
07. Adonai Mitchell, Texas
08. JaLynn Polk, Washington
09. Javon Baker, Central Florida
10. Ladd McConkey, Georgia
11. Roman Wilson, Michigan
12. Keon Coleman, Florida State

Round 3
13. Ricky Pearsall, Florida
14. Malachi Corley, Western Kentucky
15. Xavier Legette, South Carolina
16. Devontez Walker, North Carolina
17. Jermaine Burton, Alabama

Round 4
18. Jalen McMillan, Washington
19. Malik Washington, Virginia
20. Jamari Thrash, Louisville
21. Xavier Weaver, Colorado
22. Brenden Rice, Southern California

Round 5
23. Ainias Smith, Texas A&M
24. Jacob Cowing, Arizona
25. Luke McCaffrey, Rice
26. Tahj Washington, Southern California
27. Johnny Wilson, Florida State

Round 6
28. Anthony Gould, Oregon State
29. Cornelius Johnson, Michigan
30. Isaiah Williams, Illinois
31. Tulu Griffin, Mississippi State
32. Bub Means, Pittsburgh
33. Ryan Flournoy, Southeast Missouri State

Round 7
34. Jeshaun Jones, Maryland
35. Jha'Quan Jackson, Tulane
36. Jalen Coker, Holy Cross
37. Mason Tipton, Yale

Feels on point to me

Baker, Mckonkey and Pearsall are kind of a group for me and I kind of like Brendan Rice's highs enough to move him closer to the front of that tier 4 but I like this list a lot more than most of what's out there by the "Pros" right now. This feels like the most accurate Keon Coleman and Leggette list ive seen. So many People trying to push them to the top of tier two.

Appreciate all you do as always!

I'm too lazy to do as good a job as Crow but I'll give the same idea a shot.

R1 (ranked within round):

Harrison
Nabers
Odunze
Thomas
Mitchell
Franklin

Round 2:

Xavier Worthy
Ladd McConkey
Roman Wilson
Devontez Walker
Keon Coleman
Ricky Pearsall

Round 3

Javon Baker
Jalen McMillan
Ja'Lynn Polk
Xavier Legette
Jermaine Burton

Round 4:

Malachi Corley
Brenden Rice
Luke McCaffrey
Jacob Cowing
Jamari Thrash

Round 5:

Malik Washington
Ainias Smith
Cornelius Johnson
Isaiah Williams
Anthony Gould
Ryan Flournoy

Round 6 and beyond:

Tyler Harrell
Johnny Wilson (TE convert)
Tahj Washington
Jaden Walley
De'Corian Clark
Zakhari Franklin
Isaiah Neyor

Ask me tomorrow and it'll be different, but I think that's where I am about now.

I don’t disagree with the production argument but many of these teams are drafting based on traits and ad Mitchell has all the traits but obviously needs refinement. He’s big and fast and has great hands. I’m guessing the bills take him in round 1. AD Mitchell checks a lot of boxes and with what WRs make now, it’s a valuable position, especially with teams anticipation of Justin Jefferson’s new deal that will reset the market. He might be the highest paid non qb. I wouldn’t be surprised with 7 or 8 WRs in round 1, and probably 15 in the first 2 rounds.

Personally, I don't have any major quarrels with your list DJ.

Neyor did transfer to Nebraska though. I thought Walley was going back to school but I haven't paid that much attention because I consider him a PFA.

Yeah, if we go WR in 1, I think Mitchell is probably the guy I'd want. I'm not eager to trade up to 20 to get Thomas and I prefer Mitchell over Franklin and Worthy.

I'm admittedly being something of a measurables whore there, but I've never shied away from that accusation when it comes to WRs. Give me tools at the WR position and more often than not I'll come away happy when it's all said and done.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-01-2016/mz9LRE.gif

Yeah - I have a tendency to lose track of guys this late in the process. Did Neyor declare and then go back? I remember early in the process seeing him as a guy that might've gotten lost in the wash behind Worthy and Mitchell and thought he might be worth a late look.

Seems he had the same thought I did. I think there's more there than he was able to show.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Multiple scouts in <a href="https://twitter.com/GoLongTD?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GoLongTD</a> expressed concern about Adonai Mitchell’s diabetes to Bob McGinn <a href="https://t.co/uvJsJahbO4">https://t.co/uvJsJahbO4</a> <a href="https://t.co/eNUpuhWHvf">pic.twitter.com/eNUpuhWHvf</a></p>&mdash; Billy M (@BillyM_91) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1780544832189907194?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Maybe this is just enough to get him to 32 :shrug:

I think we’ll either trade up for Brian Thomas Jr or stay @ 32 and take Troy Franklin.

FYI Jermaine Burton is going to fall. He’s the classic prospect everyone thinks will go decently high but fall like a rock.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jermaine Burton is off at least two teams’ boards for various character-related issues and could face an agonizing drop in the draft per McGinn via <a href="https://twitter.com/GoLongTD?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@GoLongTD</a> <a href="https://t.co/uvJsJahbO4">https://t.co/uvJsJahbO4</a></p>&mdash; Billy M (@BillyM_91) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1780545328657178842?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 17, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dane Brugler on the Athletic Football Podcast on Jermaine Burton “The talent’s there. It’s a matter of consistency on and off the field. He’s been to 6 schools in 8 years. As one NFL scout put it, he was on the shit list of the coaches of both Georgia and Alabama”</p>&mdash; Billy M (@BillyM_91) <a href="https://twitter.com/BillyM_91/status/1776368314647728244?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 5, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's interesting re: Mitchell. Keeping his blood sugar level during a game should be something an NFL staff can handle better than a college one. You do wonder if MAYBE some of the lackadaisical effort you see at times is related to that.

DJ, crow, re: Jermaine Burton, if he was less of a shit-head, do you slot him higher?

I think he's a round 2 talent with character concerns that drop him a round or 2.

If Burton is still sitting there at 94, you sprint to the podium, even if you drafted a WR in the 1st or 2nd.