Yep. If Flowers were available for a reasonable cost I'm all over it, but he's the #1 guy after FTs in a market desperate for edge talent. Going to get PAID.

You guys wanna pay patriots players that bill doesn’t want to keep have at it. No thanks here

I don’t think it’s really worth discussing trading ford at this point. All signs point to the tag atleast

Unless they get a good offer they’ll keep him a year

A-5 years at $15-$17 per is totally reasonable for a 25 year old plus player at a premium position. I'd feel better about that than paying Ford.
B-he's already played for Daly. He knows exactly what they're doing on the line, he's already done it.

What you DON'T know is whether Ford and/or Houston can play in this scheme. I would bet that Houston would be better in the short run than Ford. He's also wildly expensive, 30, with a lengthy injury history.

Jones is the only homegrown star on that defense that I'd pay right now. I'd take a couple plus players at prime positions

Miami and Detroit will be in on Flowers and have a lot more money to spend than KC. I really like the player, but shudder at the cost.

I think Flowers gets $17M minimum, and I’d bet the over at $18M.

Plus, paying him is a lot different than paying Ford. You’re talking a one year deal as opposed to probably 5 years for Flowers.

If the market is DESPERATE for edge talent, then you absolutely tag and trade Ford. If they're desperate, we'll snag a #1 for him.

Then you just choke down Houston's big fat $21 million and you put him at RDE, where he'll certainly be a double digit sack guy as long as he's healthy enough to play.

Better draft an edge early though, to rotate and spell Houston when he takes his usual 4 or 5 game break mid-season. (I'm not saying he's dogging it, I just find it frustrating.)

That's not the way it's going to go. Obviously

No
Yes lol

it'd be ****ing awesome though.

what is the offseason for, if not to dream?

Yeah. I like to be a little realistic. But my guy kinda keeps me grounded

Sure. If I'm Veach I float it out that Ford is yours for a 1st and see who, if anyone, bites.

well, in 3 years that deal would look pretty sweet as long as he's healthy. the cap'll go up and FA DE's will be getting paid more.

I get it's serious money, but you want to lock up good young talent as soon as you can.

I don't think Ford is worth the risk; and best case scenario is we're in the same spot next year and he's even more expensive.

Only guy on that defense I'd pay big bucks for right now is Jones. Everyone else is an expendable asset.

But jones seems like an effort (or lack of ) guy

I can’t personally approve of paying Flowers like a star pass rusher at any time, I don’t think he is one. And the fact that he played in NE, and BB doesn’t appear to be making an effort to keep him—that scares me. You don’t know how those guys will translate considering he wasn’t a prized commodity in the draft.

I saw less of that last year.

Thing with him is, he's an unusual talent. There's only a couple of guys in the league at DT that can do the things he can do.

I guess it is fun to talk about Flowers but the only FA that is coming to KC on a multi year deal is a safety.

That’s the problem. He hasn’t been that guy ever since he got paid.

Also..if Belichick won’t even give Flowers the tag, no less extend the mother****er, isn’t that a red flag?

Considering steadman and stram are dead, none in theory.


Guess we just trade mahomes and be done with it?

He had 9.5 sacks this year in only 12 games

The only reason they would cut Houston or let Ford go is injury concerns.

It’s gonna be interesting to see how much improvement Daly gets out of Ford and Jones in their run defense...as he’s the run defense coordinator. And both players are lacking in that area of their game.

That’s gonna be the difference between winning a Super Bowl or losing in the playoffs the next couple seasons.

How do you know this?

I’m on my phone and can’t really but someone should make a thread about the d staff being finalized

It's on the front page...

Lmao

So the new defensive coaching staff lists Britt Reid as an "OLB coach". Does that mean there's a chance Spags sticks with with the 3-4?

Well sweet tits it is

It means he's the outside linebacker coach.

I thought that was your receptionist...

Lol

She’s sugar tits

he's learning to coach the entire defense. This will give him a lot of experience with the front seven.

Yup I’m with you here Pugs. Veach traded up for Speaks. I think he’s starting next season.

I'd bet they don't even do that.

I personnally absolutely think they will.

Next year will be IMO the Chiefs best chance at a Superbowl in the next few years. They need to go all in without sacrificing the future and I believe they know that.

The draft won't be enough to really improve the defense.

They need some FAs.

A trade is also a possibility.

This is a big big offseason for Veach. Anything short of reaching the SB next year will be unacceptable.

Interesting discussion with Grunny. It’s like we (mostly) are on the same page.

-wants to see Chris Jones at DE more often.
-3 tech DL are a deep in this draft. Should most likely we take one with our first pick.
-keep Houston and trade Ford (disagree here).
-receiver would be a great investment early—one of two 2nd rd picks.

Right now I’m going full Pest. I’d get a massive chubby if we got Jeremy Tillery.

If Jones goes out to DE, and we draft a 3 tech with our #1 pick (Casserly gave us Tillery from ND yesterday), how do you see Houston, Ford fitting in?

I would assume some arrangement of Speaks, Nandi, 1st round 3 tech, and Jones is how this scenario is supposed to go, correct? If so, wouldn't keeping Houston and Ford be pretty high priced backups?

His name is Jerry Tillery.

He said he'd trade Ford.

I'd assume Houston is your SAM at that point.

no.

who said we weren't starting Speaks?

And why would we move Jones to DE?

I went out for the evening, had some cocktails and slept in and it's like you all went nuts while I was gone. :)

It's rare to get the kind of pass rush from an interior lineman that Jones gives you. There's no way you move him outside, where he's further away from the QB. It negates all of the things that make him special. He's a natural 3 tech. Would you move Aaron Donald out to DE? Hell no, he's great where he is.

Speaks will be a fine LDE. I think that's the plan.
Nnadi's at Nose, or 1 tech with Williams backing up.
The only question is RDE. Ford gives you pass rush, but no run defense and he rarely plays a full season. Houston would be good but is also often injured and is wildly expensive.

It's probably going to be Ford; and Houston is probably cut.
I like playing with the idea of Flowers because he's young and good, solid all around DE. That seems like a good bet financially. I'm not sure Ford is.
But more than likely, we'll play him on the tag and kick the can down the road a year. It just sucks that the best case scenario with Ford is that he balls out and then he's $20 million a year as a DE in 2020. It'd be tough to pay that in any case, and tough to get anyone else to trade for it.

After last years draft a lot of us thought that the players taken were better suited in a 43. Some guys from the draft before could also be better in a 43, such as K-Passo. Their big F/A signing was a 43 guy.

Then Reid goes on record saying that the best scheme in today's NFL is a 43.

Then they hire a 43 coach.

It's refreshing to know that this team prepares a year or two in advance, every season. They're a forward thinking organization, and they were prepared to move on from Sutton barring a change in results.

They didn't just, on a whim, say "**** it, we're going for a 43". They've been planning this all along. And much like the transition from Smith to Mahomes, our defensive transition won't be rough and forced.

Feels good bros.

:clap:

I admire your optimism, brother.

This makes sense and is reasonable.

It has no place here.

Ban

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Steve Spagnuolo says he and his staff are not ready yet to say for sure if Dee Ford will return next season as an outside linebacker or a defensive end.</p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1098285230211907584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 20, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wha?

Exactly what I was thinking.

ROFL

It's gonna be great if they tag Ford and play him at OLB, putting him in pass coverage.

Pretty sure that translates to “we are deciding whether we are keeping him or not.”

Ford at OLB in this scheme is a complete waste

I'm pretty sure that's "it costs more to tag him as a DE so we aren't going to say anything yet".

According to several here, the franchise tag is based on last year's snaps so it doesn't matter what they say now.

that's possible.

I don't know about that.

I'm pretty sure if they come out and say he's going to be a DE, he could file a grievance and win.

I was told I was wrong, FWIW.

It makes sense that they wouldn't commit to say DE knowing then Ford would most likely win his grievance to get the higher DE tag.

Otherwise, Spagnuolo said they are not too hung up on scheme which probably means that they intend to use a lot of subpackages and run a hybrid scheme possibly.

I'd think they would like to use him similar to what the Broncos did with Von under Wade.

I actually think Ford would do really well in a Schwartz type defense playing in a wide 9. You can hide him vs the run by lining him up on the weak side, and moving him out wide. With his first step and speed, he'd do more than fine lined up wide. Since spags likes to run over fronts I think Ford could do fine. I don't follow von Miller enough to know if that's how he's been used

Please insert the appropriate drum fill/crash of your choice here. LMAO

There is a new article in the KC Star. I can't post it, because I have used up my free reads for the month. Here is the title.

Switch to 4-3? Chiefs’ Spagnuolo preaches ‘physical, competitive defensive football’

EDIT: Was there a press conference today?

Spags had a conference call with the media today.

https://www.chiefs.com/news/five-thi...?sf208094919=1

Nice little article. I really love the idea of him taking a year off to learn the game. House knows what's up in the sec, Daly brings ideas from an innovative defense. Good chance the defense we see is nothing like what spagnuolos used in the past. Wasn't long ago people thought Andy Reid was just pretty good on offense before he stumbled into being the leading offensive mind in the NFL.

Spag is going to make so many eat tons of crow, including me.

Everything he's done and said so far has been on point.

That's what happened with Derrick Thomas...he wanted to be listed as a DE...Chiefs wanted him listed as an OLB. Hence the term "Falcon Backer" was created.

You know, before we spend another day on here putting square pegs in round holes and breaking our backs trying to figure out which of Houston or Ford is the RDE maybe we should take a hard look at this article and see that Spags is going to tailor the defense TO the guys instead of the Sutton method of the opposite maybe he might just keep both?

that's all fine and good; the point is that you will have almost $40 million tied up in Houston and Ford.

If you think that's cool, then I guess.

According too that article Mahomes was a little bit of an influence for him to come to KC.

Yeah. I mean, of course he was, but still nice to actually hear.

Translation:

"**** YES I'm excited to be here with Reid and Mahomes! When I put together a defense that won't LOSE games just to get us started, we've got this thing LICKED and are headed straight to a Championship"!


Is what I read.

Tbh if Spags were to stick with the 3-4 it would make sense as it would be way easier to sort the defense out quickly rather than having an entire scheme change and worry about whether our current players could fit into the new scheme. Keeping Ford and Houston as edges would then be worth it as they were just part of the best pass rush In the league last season. All we would then need to do add key pieces to the secondary, LB group and a few on the DL.

Bailey, Sorensen, Nelson, Conley, Ware, Morse etc leaving should create more than enough cap space to absorb Houston/Ford for one more year, then we could just let them go next offseason If need be. I just think Spags has to think long and hard about splitting up that pass-rush trio that was so effective last season.

http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/upl...-Glover-No.gif

No sir. That defense as a base is ****ing garbage and it's LONG past time to move on. Listen to Danny. Be the ball.

No-one is saying keep the whole defense, I'm saying keep the scheme and the BEST PART of the defense which was the pass rush. As much as people are yelling for "change", a change in scheme could take time for the players to adjust to and could cost us games In the process.

Keep the scheme? :Lin:

So your window is one year? We have a 23 year old mvp at QB. I can't imagine they'll cost us games any more than they did in 2018. Our offense can hold serve until then. There's no reason to rush and build a low ceiling defense, when we can patiently build a high ceiling defense we can ride for many years.

That's why we hired excellent assistants. And my guess is, we buy a lot of stopgap veterans this season to step in. It'll be a hell of a lot better than if we tried to make a bad defense work.

I think he means stay in a 3-4 base, rather than keep the scheme.

There's not even a gif alive that would even show a tenth of disgust I have for this post

Keep the scheme? Why would that happen? Clearly scheme is one of the problems besides the fact we had a terrible defensive staff. Old and tired with no ability to make players better. The run defense never got any better and the pass defense didn't get any better. They cleaned house one year too late in my book.

My point is the issues on defense were more to do with a lack of quality players in key positions such as the secondary and line-backing group, coupled with Bob's lack of aggression, rather than it being about the 3-4 system. Everyone wants the whole thing torn down and I get it, but we've only got one season left until Pat's contract turns the team's cap upside down. So this is why I wouldn't mind keeping things more simple for at least another season and rather than get rid of everything, just keep the system, keep the pass rush and add heavily to the secondary and lb group.

Folks may disagree but Spags said he'll look at the roster and go with what fits the players best. So yall better be prepared for some disappointment If he decides to take the SAFE route and follow my advice :D.

I don't want to let Houston and Ford walk but we can't keep both. We need secondary/LB help.

I'd rather have an impact safety and a solid starter at some other position than Houston or Ford.