That’s one guy I don’t regret taking. Not even a little bit. Hes not maybe a head case. He’s only a rookie and he’s proven to be certifiably nuts. The guy is almost on the weekly throwing hissy fits about getting the ball. Andy’s not some magician who can change that kind of attitude and he has zero tolerance for that nonsense. And we don’t need a rookie diva wr getting in mahomes face every week because his teammates were getting more love.

I want a wr upgrade badly. But in Pickens, No thank you.

Im not really arguing for or against him but I think Andy might damn well be a magician. I had zero idea Hill acted or thinks the way he thinks. It wasn't until he left KC that we found out about his large mouth.

It’s like people learned nothing from the Marcus Peters experience

Andy couldn’t handle Marcus peters. There were rumors tyreek was starting to get greedy towards the end. They rained honey badger in on social media but he was still kind of a pain the ass. Leveon bell was a huge pain in the ass all the way out the door. The reason Andy Reid prevents this situation is knowing players he doesn’t want in the locker room. He is a great enough coach to stretch those limits, but he said so himself when he wanted no part in trading for desean Jackson. I assume it’s a lesson he learned the very hard way after TO. Damage that hurt the eagles for years.

You may be right but I just think there are guys like TO and AB that are too broken to mess with. Pickens looks on that level. And I don’t think he’d hesitate to chuck every teammate and coach under the bus if he doesn’t get his

Big miss from Patrick here, though it I evidently didn’t matter bc we scored anyway. Skyy was wide the hell open up top. That might have been a TD if Patrick goes to him

Talent is obvious. Get him in the mix Andy

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Chiefs</a> I see why Toub had a hard time keep’n <a href="https://twitter.com/skyymoore24?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@skyymoore24</a> off punt returns ��. It’s slippery out there <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Skyymoore?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Skyymoore</a> <a href="https://t.co/RrcMF6NTI2">pic.twitter.com/RrcMF6NTI2</a></p>&mdash; Crow Rudolf (@4orIAmCrow_TAVB) <a href="https://twitter.com/4orIAmCrow_TAVB/status/1606792741064785920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If I remember right that completed pass to Skyy was right after or maybe just a couple plays after the play to Kelce where Skyy was wide open in the flat.

Feel it’s more of a Mahomes looking towards the flat issue. Seems like McKinnon has gotten more balls thrown his way since that Cinci game as Pat gets reminded to look towards the flat more often.

Nawp, **** that guy; not near athletic enough to be successful in the NFL. Just look at him not being shifty enough to make that defender mi . . . Ahem. He got lucky. And he’s too short. Probably has bad breath as well. Can you imagine how much better he’d be if he had an acceptable cone time, and he wasn’t so short and so damnably limited athletically and unattractive? Why, Skyy might do something like what that guy in the video did. That would amazing.

Yea, not really sure how you could see Moore with the ball in his hands and think "limited athleticism".

His athleticism isn't elite, but Andy wouldn't be using the guy the way he does if his athleticism was "limited".

But then again, it's OKchiefs that said that stupid shit. Not surprising when you consider the source.

The narratives here are just absurd.

Not to toot my own horn here, but way back before the season I said I doubted he'd put up big numbers this year.

But the idea that he's 'limited' in any way other than jump balls perhaps is nuts.

and even then, he's got long arms and huge hands and is a 'snatcher' not a body catcher, so I wouldn't say that's out of the question, either.

He's just digesting all of the pre and post snap reads right now. This is a VERY complicated offense for WR's, I don't know how many times some of you need to hear it. It's not nearly as simple as 'run the play diagram'.

He'll be fine. I have zero doubt. I think 'plus slot receiver' is his floor, and still think really good #2 with a full route tree is likely where he ends up, with an outside shot at a 'true #1'.

The athletic potential is all there, and by all accounts, he's a smart, hard workin kid.

Y'all dismiss youngsters way too quickly around here.

In my 'fantasy'?

What ****ing planet do you live on?

I told you ****ers way back in August not to expect big numbers, because rookie WR's rarely do in this system and he had four veterans in front of him that already know how to play NFL caliber football.

Will him being much more productive in year two CANCEL OUT CRITICISM of him being unproductive as a rookie?

No, but it will show those of you being overly critical of a rookie WR in a notoriously difficult offense to learn that you were being dumb-asses for being so overly critical in the first place.

Stupid, impatient, ignorant. All of those things.

Not as fast as Tyreek or Hardman = limited apparently

LMAO My God you guys took this thread personal.

If Skyy turns out to be a good receiver, my excitement will always be dampened a bit because of his lack of production his rookie season.

Not at all, just really irritating constantly having to argue with stupidity.

Your expectations (and many others' expectations) were always ridiculous. Every rookie is supposed to be an immediate game changing talent or they're shitty.

It's never that simple, and despite many years of allegedly watching football, here you still are, spouting the same stupid bullshit.

It's ****ing exhausting. And there's too many of you to simply put on ignore. Your impatient, knee-jerk emotionally driven half-assed analysis based on a fraction of actual knowledge is irritating to have to constantly rebut.

You'd think that Brett Veach had assembled the 2022 Denver Broncos if you just read people's opinions here about any player on the team other than Mahomes or Kelce.

You'd think our coaching staff was shit, and the last three drafts were garbage, the entire defense needs fired, and Veach isn't fit to work at Mcdonald's.

It's ****ing exhausting.

Take a break then. Football discussions may not be for you.

We have experienced WRs and TEs so we haven't had to rush Skyy along. I think that's a positive in the long run.

Yeah, maybe you're right.

People acting like he was a top 5 Pick out of the SEC or something.

My argument for Moore isn't really much more than "I like him"...but I still do. When I've focused on his snaps it looks like a combination of being assigned to block, and being a later read. He still looks, to me, like he wins plenty enough. I could be wrong on him and i get why people are disappointed, but I'm hopeful he gets more chances next year and delivers.

I simply go to that Chargers game where he had to step up due to injuries and delivered

I’d like to see him utilized a little more on jet sweeps while Hardman is out.

I’d buy that excuse if we were watching Hardman and even To why take the snaps over him. But the beneficiary has been freaking Justin Watson getting starters minutes over Moore and even MVS. Also, Toney has come in without hardly any time here and outproduced Moore when healthy.

You must be bored every week watching Mahomes light it up?

Skyy needs more opportunities and looking at the depth chart he is listed as behind JJSS not Watson.

I would also say that Toney needs more opportunites as well as he didn't see the field much either on Sunday.

I’d say the frustration is more he was a second round pick and some billed him as being an immediate contributor

I don’t really have a problem saying he needs or needed development but 2nd round picks tend to be expected to contribute more earlier.

If he comes on strong next year no one will care that he started slow but this far it hasn’t been good

True but I am not sure it is entirely his fault. Toub ruined his confidence by putting him as PR when he obviously shouldn't have been. That slowed his progress quite a bit I believe. If you watch when he actually gets opportunities he is open alot.

The coaching staff did not do right but Skyy this year by putting him on ST’s the way they did. The guy has never returned punts so of course he wasn’t gonna be good at it.

He’s proven time and again that he’s talented and can produce when given the chance. It’s absolutely bizarre that Watson gets more snaps.

Skyy should be getting those now, not next season

Well hopefully Watson being pure shit lately forces them to adjust the WR snaps.

I don’t get it

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Skyy Moore: 298 offensive snaps, 29 targets, 19 receptions, 217 receiving yards, True catch rate of 90%. <br><br>Justin Watson: 442 offensive snaps, 30 targets, 13 receptions, 221 receiving yards, True catch rate of 76%. <br><br>True catch rates via <a href="https://twitter.com/rotounderworld?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@rotounderworld</a></p>&mdash; Caleb James (@CJScoobs) <a href="https://twitter.com/CJScoobs/status/1607757891813146624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 27, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Has to be Moore not getting the playbook and in play adjustments that WRs in this offense are expected to make. Only explanation.

Ya gotta think Mahomes wants to feed Skyy the ball the last couple weeks of the season to get him some confidence built back up going into the postseason and next season. Ya gotta think they want him to get a taste of the end zone once or twice.

Especially with Watson not catching anything the last month.

If Moore is still drifting on his routes, that explanation would make sense to me. Watson brickhanding the ball hasn't led to picks. Moore not being where he's supposed to be has led to at least two. You gotta have a better ratio with only 20 receptions.

I think he'll figure it out.

Me neither. Watson is a big old bag of s***.

Yep, I agree. Disappointing that Skyy apparently hasn’t picked up the offense yet.

You cannot convince me that there isn't a collection of plays that could/has been learned between MVS, Moore, Toney and even JJSS that can't take some of the snaps from Watson. Is this a Moore thing? Sure, perhaps some of it, but Watson's snap count IS absolutely baffling.

Skyy Moore needs to be where he is supposed to be first, then maybe he can actually get more opportunities & develop some chemistry with Mahomes.

Skyy Moore is responsible for 3 of Patrick's interceptions this year, and when you keep doing that to your QB, you just aren't going to get targets.

I hated the pick, and then got talked into giving him a chance because he "fit" the offensive scheme. At this point, I just don't want him fielding punts, and for him to be better next year, because this year he absolutely sucks.

I am positive that Veach could have made a deal to move up for Christian Watson, and we absolutely know that we could have had Pierce or Pickens, and if those 3 guys continue on their same trajectories, Skyy Moore will have to be great to make his selection anything other than a whiff.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

Just give him reps he won’t disappoint!

It's the NFL fellas.

You eat what you kill.

"Just give him reps" ain't how this works.

Justin Watson is a pretty damn low bar - just be where you're supposed to be, Skyy. Once you do that, you'll blow past the guy on the depth chart. And you'll set yourself up really nicely for prime slot reps, perhaps as quickly as this season and certainly next.

But you gotta be where you're supposed to be first. Or 6 yard screen passes on designed plays are the most you're gonna see 'round here...

Who knows if he was or wasn’t where he was supposed to be? I heard on 810 today or yesterday he has zero drops if he is not running routes right that is what coaches are for.

Andy has faulted him for two of Patrick's interceptions in postgames this season for drifting a couple yards from where he was supposed to be. Twitter film folks have also argued he caused a third.

Coaches can drill you extensively in practice, but at the end of the day it's on the player to be where he needs to be. Giving short fields to opposing offenses simply can not happen in the postseason.

Sky is no different than the rooks on D mistakes will be made and they will grow see how far the rooms on D have come with playing time.

This is a different deal. We don't have any other options on defense, we have to play the rooks.

On offense, passes to Moore can go to JJSS, Travis, Pacheco, MVS, Gray, or Patrick can screw around and Jordan his was to a 10 yard run. The defense does not have this flexibility nor latitude.

I'm sure the coaches see him round off a route or give up on a play and just throw their hands up without saying a word to him.

Probably aaaaaalll the coaching staff's fault.

I'm sure you're right that he has zero drops. I don't think anyone's questioned his hands (at least when it comes to receiving passes rather than punts).

Then again, Travis Kelce is tied for the league lead in drops so I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably not all that demonstrative a statistic.

Sure, Justin Watson has 4 drops to zero from Moore on the same number of targets - Moore clearly has much better hands than Watson. Then again, Pat has a 97.5 passer rating when throwing to Watson and a 51.3 passer rating when throwing to Moore. You think maybe being where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there has something to do with that wide discrepancy?

Both in terms of outcomes AND reps?

Y'all keep acting like it's some mystery why Moore isn't seeing the field and the answer's just right there in front of you. When a guy like Toney gets in here with limited experience and reps in this offense and PM puts up a 140 passer rating throwing him the football, it proably shouldn't surprise you that he's getting more involvement in the offense than the guy who's struggling to hit 1/3 of that mark. And when you're sitting there scratching your head over snap counts, it's probably worth noting that Watson's popping off double what Moore is in that regard.

Fellas - it ain't the mystery you think it is. And the answer is not 'just give him reps'. He has to earn them. Thus far the coaching staff clearly doesn't think he has.

They have all improved due to playing time. Look at Karlaftis people were calling him a bust is it 4.5 sacks in last 4 or 5 games?

I love George, been a defender of his since he was making pressures and not quite sealing the deal. I think if he's a 7 sack guy he's a fantastic staple on the defense and a guy everyone would love to have on D (even loaded teams like the 2019 49ers).

But again, on defense we literally have no other option. There is no Melvin Ingram or Suggs to come in and take snaps from him. We have to play George. It is a sink or swim situation.

We do not have to play Skyy on offense. We have the #1 offense without him. If he takes away from the #1 offense, then he's simply not going to be getting snaps.

If he got game reps and coaching like I'm sure the ones on D are getting he would be much farther along. These last two games he needs to play because he will be needed in the playoffs.

I thought he would be a bigger part of the offense by now, even as a rookie. I think DJ is spot on with that eval on him. I talked about it a few weeks back, for Pat to trust him, he needs to be precisely where he is supposed to be exactly when he’s supposed to be there because the offense is based largely on timing. Pat throws with incredible anticipation (even to the extent of many no look passes) so that skill is even more important/vital. Once Pat trusts him to do that, his targets will go up quickly. The offense needs a guy that can offset the OTs by getting open right away and Dkyy is built for that role. Catch and run. Catch and run. Quick bangers that can go for scores with 1-2 blocks.

You could see the frustration from Pat on the pick plays when Skyy was at incorrect depth for the route. It’s disappointing that he hasn’t taken this opportunity and ran with it. Hardman being out should have provided him with ample opportunity to increase his role in the offense and he had a promising game against LA and then disappeared again.

Now would be the perfect time for him to breakout, though.

The fact his snaps and targets haven’t gone up is because he hasn’t demonstrated to the coaches or Pat that he deserves additional space in the offense. In short, they don’t trust him with more at this point.

I'm pretty patient and still have high hopes for Sky. I originally wasn't even too determined to see results this season in terms of stats.

I do think however there is a little reason to be disappointed right now. Between Watson, Reid's comments on Sky during the picks, and Toney coming in here and hitting the ground running, there is some evidence that despite being a rookie, there was a void to fill that he could have taken hold of. We could have and still can use the help. We shall see.

Perhaps the reason Mahomes' passer rating is higher with Watson is because his targets are limited to the fraction he doesn't have a DB glued to his hip. Guy has 100 more snaps for heaven's sake, I could just as well ask why Mahomes doesn't target him more if he's "where he's supposed to be so often".

I get some people are "intrigued" by Watson but there's no mystery as to why he went 5th RD or whatever in the draft and Moore went late 2nd and it isn't cause Veach reached 2 rounds. It's because Moore is both a better athlete and a better football player.

You could be right about him not getting his routes right but that's much harder to discern with any confidence than old stone hands Watson dropping clangers.

They obviously like Watson's blocking because last gane he had more snaps than MVS. I'm no fan of MVS but is Watson a more reliable route runner? Doubt it. Anyway, get your point Watson is a low bar but that's really the frustration. Perhaps a lot of this is on Moore but I really don't get Watson getting 400 snaps to be surgically stitched to DBs minus one play against the corpse of JC Jackson and a collection of drops

Hey, you remember all of the times that Mahomes has looked frustrated with Hardman? The times when he gave up on routes, or ran them incorrectly, and Mahomes is gesturing to him after the play, and shaking his head?

It's like that.

Now, Hardman and Toney MOSTLY are getting designed touches; manufactured, specific plays to get them the ball out on the perimeter. Your jet sweeps, your WR screens-that kind of stuff. Those things are kind of separate from the 'regular' offense. They're special plays. Those things don't really have post-snap reads, because they're quick hitters.

It's the same thing we did with Hill early on. Get it to the freaky fast guy as quick as you can in space.

Toney's not as straight line fast, but his quickness, acceleration, and body control is something else, man. He might be faster than Hardman in the first five yards, and certainly is in his change of direction.

Now, I'm not saying that Moore is going to be a hall-of-famer or anything, but what I am saying is that these comparisons to Hardman or Toney are apples and oranges. He's not the same type of player at all. Moore is a guy that will need to run the routes to get the targets. And again for anyone that's missed it- there are pre-snap reads, and post snap reads, and reading the defensive reaction while you're running down the field and adjusting your route constantly on the fly so you have to be seeing and adjusting exactly as Patrick is seeing it also.

It's complicated, and for a rookie who's also learning how to play in the NFL overall, it was always a tall order to expect him to put up numbers with four veteran NFL players in front of him with varied skillsets.

I've seen the hands. I've seen the quickness. I've seen some physical toughness. He is, by all accounts, a hard worker and a high effort guy. He's going to be fine, it's just going to take a little bit. Yes, it would've gone faster had he played more snaps, but it would've been more like what Green Bay has gone through with Christian Watson this season only instead of drops it would've been just flat being in the wrong place a whole lot.

And with Juju, MVS, Watson, Hardman, and now Toney (the last two taking a lot of the manufactured touches) he's just had a tough time getting on the field.

Realistically, that was always going to be the case-and that's why they tried to make him a punt returner; to get him snaps and get used to NFL game speed. That didn't go so well, but I understand why they tried it.

I agree

I think everyone who has an issue with him doesn't even disagree here. Some said this from the beginning and were chastised because "he'll have immediate impact etc".

IMO, the biggest issue is taking 2nd rounders like this and then them not getting PT. You only have them for 4 years, so you're losing a cheap year there. Look at Bolton and Creed etc.

Obviously they were more pro ready, which happens. I'm just not a big fan of taking guys that early that aren't really pro ready.

If 2nd rounders were day one difference makers, they'd be first rounders

I don't disagree with any of this.

It's why I LOVED Pacheco on kick returns - get him out there with the ball in his hands while he's learning to play at this level.

But Pacheco, in his limited offensive snaps, earned MORE snaps. And then when there was an injury that cracked the door wider for him, he kicked the damn thing open.

Moore has had those opportunities as well; we've had plenty of injuries at WR. And unlike Pacheco, Moore simply didn't force the issue. And if rookies don't force their way onto the field when given an opportunity, they just don't get the reps.

And yes, Toney's plays have been similar to some of the plays we've seen designed for Moore - Toney's just done more with them. The jet action pitch pass TD he scored on was a great example - Moore has had a couple similar opportunities and just didn't do the same thing with them. And Reid said earlier in the season that they were trying to build packages/plays to get Moore the ball more - then they just didn't go anywhere.

Is it because Reid is some idiot rube? Of course not - it's because Moore just wasn't demonstrating (presumptively in practice) that he had the tools to do the kind of damage that Toney and Hardman have done with them. Which again, gets back to my original complaints here - you have a raw WR w/ an average tool set and thus maybe he shouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round.

I think Moore's going to have to develop into an extremely reliable slot weapon; someone who can get tough yards in tight spaces by simply being in the right place at the right time and using those hands (which really do seem exceptional) to pull in tight, high risk passes. Because he doesn't have the explosion of guys like Toney or Hardman. His athletic profile is actually far more similar to Justin Watson than it is those guys.

And ultimately if he develops into that player, that's really valuable. It just seems unlikely that it's happening this year. And they're not gonna risk it in the post-season where one of those times that he doesn't get proper depth in his route or reads the defense wrong yields a turnover that sends us to the golf course.

I've said for years that I think 2nd rounders are one of 2 types typically.

1) High ceiling guys with 1st round skills but warts that make them high risk and unlikely to contribute in year 1 (i.e. a guy like Pickens or Williams) or guys who could flame out entirely.

2) Lower ceiling guys who can play right away (Morse was always my prime example of that sort of player). Sometimes this is guys like Thornhill who may not be low ceiling for the position they play, but they play less impactful position and can play them immediately. Bolton and Creed qualify in that regard. Cook arguably does.

My issue here has always been that I don't see Moore as being either of these. He's not high ceiling nor is he a turnkey contributor with a lower ceiling. He's a 3rd round talent - raw and with a maybe slightly above average ceiling. I think a fair comparison here is Leo Chenal and if you make that comp, your strongest argument for taking him in the 2nd is his positional value. But I also think Chenal has demonstrated that he's more game-ready and frankly, in relation to his position, I think his ceiling is higher than Moore's. So balancing those views out, I think Moore is again more of a 3rd round player; a fringe top 100 guy rather than fringe top 50 guy.

I didn't say difference maker. Contributor and difference maker are two separate things.

Indeed.

I've spent more time trying to explain that I'm not a 'hater' of Skyy Moore than I have diminishing Skyy Moore.

It was the 'he's the best WR in the draft, how did we ever get him at 54?!?' people that have continued to drive this conversation. Many of them have now become the "my god, he was so great on that 6 yard catch! Why doesn't he get 60 snaps/game???" people.

The answers to these questions are readily apparent for anyone willing to objectively view the kid. Meck laid them out fairly well. He's just not a guy with the tools to be a gadget player or the polish to be a reliable enough timing offense guy. So with the tools unlikely to significantly improve, you just have to bank on and wait for the polish to come around.

Because again - this was a small college player who was beating on grocery baggers. That means far more than many ever wanted to admit. And when you look at his college route tree, you suddenly realize why the guy just isn't ready to play a major role in this offense. And that's why I wouldn't have taken him where we did.

Well, the lawyer put in a long winded response of what I was trying to say, so there we go.

I think he can end up being a good valuable asset. It's just a bit capped.

Which is fine, it happens. But it wouldn't have hurt to have went elsewhere I guess.

I understand your take, but I think that's a vast oversimplification.

And I think you underestimate Moore's ceiling.

I for one didn't expect any rookie WR to really light it up in Andy's offense in year one; not if you're actually a contender. I mean if you're not, you can take your lumps and let 'em learn. We've done that defensively, and we see what fans on CP think about it.

But we really can't do that on offense, we need to score to win, and have just as much of a shot as anyone at the trophy this season, so Moore's been odd man out.

Again though, "lighting it up" is different than say, 400 yards receiving.

Of course it is; it's a shorthand. It's a broad explanation designed to address a trend over literally thousands of selections made in the 2nd round over the years.

But I think as a shorthand, it's more than fair.

As to his ceiling - I think that's the most obvious point of distinction between myself and the fans of the Moore pick. I simply don't see a guy who's likely to ever be more than a low-end #2 on a contending offense. I don't see any chance in the world of him being a 1 and if you don't have Travis Kelce out there, I don't see Moore being a WR2 either.

On a good offense, I think he will never be more than the 3rd option in the passing game. If someone sees him as someone that can emerge as a 1st or even 2nd option on a high end offense, then that person would slot him in under 'category 1' as I laid out above.

I simply don't see it. I see Sterling Shepard.

400 yards?

Man, you're bullish as hell on Moore over the last 2 weeks, aren't you?

I'm not convinced he'll hit 300. In a 17 game season.

That's an 'oof' any way you slice it.

Think he meant that 400 is the minimum what should have been expected from him this year.

If you look at snap counts Skyy Moore is getting pretty much the same amount as Mecole did as a rookie.

Of course Hardman had a strong uptick immediately for the first month or so bc Jalen Ramsey ****ed up Tyreek’s clavicle in the first game of the season and Sammy Watkins was…well…a brokedick, so of course he got more snaps.

But when Tyreek got healthy in October, Hardman’s snaps looked like Skyy’s the rest of his rookie season

And Hardman went for 540+ yards and 6 scores in a 16 game season. He averaged almost twice as many yards/target as Moore has.

And folks shit on Hardman constantly as a rookie.

Tell me this isn't more about doubling down on pre-draft positions than it is the player himself...

I was implying 400 as an expectation, not that he'll hit that.

Entirely different situations. That's the whole thing.

How so?

And every time it fails it's "Not true Communism..."

There's always a justification if you look for one.

Hardman had 23 targets and 246 yards in the almost 5 games that Tyreek Hill missed when Hardman was a rookie.

Hardman had only 18 targets in the 10 remaining games once Tyreek came back.

Hardman got more opportunity due to injuries. As we saw with Skyy, he also made the most of his chance when Juju was injured.

To be fair to Hardman, he’s got elite caliber speed which makes him more dangerous than someone like Skyy. But there is a place for Skyy in the offense.

They need to have Skyy take Watson’s snaps next year. There’s no excuse for them not to now.

Moore got more chances when JJSS was out. That's who he's replacing, not Watson.

In 4 games where injuries increased Moore's role he got 19 targets for 145 yards; that's a far cry from what Hardman did with his injury opportunities. And that's to say nothing of the 300 yards on 18 targets that Hardman generated outside of his injury reps.

Hardman was simply better. By a fair amount. And took far more heat during his rookie season than Moore has taken during his. And that's without Hardman accounting for six turnovers.

Yes, there's a place long-term for Moore in this offense. That doesn't diminish the fact that he's done next to nothing to help this team this year and on balance has done far more harm than good.

I know most are down on Skyy right now. There are some very good arguments on both sides in this thread. I respect a lot of the opinions in here, we have some really smart guys that know football and are very good at evaluating players.

With that said, there are some exceptional people who see Skyy as an excellent WR in the making. Starting with Mr. Veach. Obviously Andy was sold on Skyy as well.

Personally, I really wanted Pickens! Big, Tall, Fast, Catches everything thrown his way and will fight for the ball. I love the idea of Patrick having this kind of WR to lean on when he has to throw up a 50/50 ball. We dont have a guy like that outside of Kelce. Andy has dealt with attitude guys before and I felt he could handle Pickens.

We had a shot at Pickens but chose to trade back knowing we could get Skyy and an extra pick. I didnt like it at the time but what does that say about their opinion of Skyy? I think in their evaluation he was the guy they wanted all along.

Also, Steve Smith Sr. absolutely Loves Skyy and called him the best WR in the draft. High praise from a guy like that. There are many opinions out there with similar comments. Sure they could be wrong but a LOT of people that evaluate players for a living think very highly of our young WR.

He will contribute to our offense in a big way, I wouldnt be surprised if its this year! Its hard to be patient but its coming!

JJSS has only missed one game which was the Chargers. In the Chargers game Skyy was the 2nd leading receiver for the Chiefs behind Kelce.

The next week when they played the Rams where JJSS was limited, Skyy was the leading receiver with 5 catches.

As I keep repeating myself over and over he just needs opportunities.

We will find out in the offseason if they believe in him by either keeping or letting JJSS go.

I know this is a common refrain - but ask yourself, if Brett Veach saw Skyy Moore as a potentially 'excellent' receiver, does he risk losing him just to acquire a 5th round pick?

I just don't think he does.

I think Veach saw a group of guys he was fine taking and Moore was among them. But do I think he saw 'excellence' in Skyy Moore? I don't - he wouldn't have traded down from 50 if he did.

And I've heard some of the dumbest opinions imaginable from ex-players - I don't put much stock in what they see. Frankly, I have no earthly idea how anyone can have watched Wilson, Olave or even London (who I didn't love in the draft) and come away saying "Moore is the best WR in the draft..."

It makes as much sense as saying "Jalen Hurts is the league MVP". It just requires that you ignore literally every single data point available to you. There is nothing - from pedigree to potential to production - to support the idea that Moore is the best WR in the draft. I see no reason to put ANY faith in it when it's that unsubstantiated.

That is certainly a possibility but on the other side of that, Veach has shown that he has an amazing ability to know what other teams are doing and who they are picking.

The trade up for Mahomes is a good example, knowing exactly how far he needed to go up and get in front of. For those who refuse to give credit to Mr. Veach for that one...
McDuffie is another example of knowing exactly where he needed to be in order to land him.

So its just as likely that Mr. Veach knew who the teams in front of us (after the trade back) were going after and that he would be able to trade back and still get Moore.

Also, yeah I dont think ex-players are the best source for evaluations but thats quite a statement given the guys you mentioned being in the same draft.

DJ, you are definitely one of the guys on here that I look forward to reading their takes. Im just pointing out that its possible we have an excellent WR in the making right in front of us and we just need to wait a little longer than we wanted to.

Skyy will be a star next season.

I should hope our 2nd rd WR can finally take the snaps of our WR4 in year 2, I hope it’s not too much to ask

Veach said there would be a 1000-yard type rusher taken in the 7th round or UDFA this year. He's kind of good at this stuff.