About 25% of the time, that is.

Healthy? Maybe. But are they willing to bet on that?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs unveil full defensive staff:<br>Steve Spagnuolo – Coordinator<br>Brendan Daly – Run Game/Line<br>Matt House – Linebackers<br>Dave Merritt – Def Backs<br>Sam Madison – Def Backs/Corners<br>Britt Reid – LBs/OLBs<br>Terry Bradden – Def Quality Control<br>Alex Whittingham – Def Asst</p>&mdash; Jeff Rosen (@jeff_rosen88) <a href="https://twitter.com/jeff_rosen88/status/1098003389454172160?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Nice to see them getting britt some more experience

( insert fireworks )

You think you're getting a first with that injury history? My mother****ing ass you will.

Like.

****.

I think i'm not going to base my opinion on a guy who doesn't even watch football's take...

The raiders got 2 1sts for mack and ford was right there statistically last year. But you wouldn't know that, right?

Dee Ford had more tackles, more sacks, more ff, and more pressures than mack had last year.

**** yes he's worth a 1st.

If he's worth more than Mack then we should keep him.

How many people here roasted Oakland for trading Mack? Even for two first rounders? Then laughed as John said pass rushers are hard to find?

Not when you have to pay him and he has an injury history. Absolutely no chance that happens.

Not me. I saw that The Raiders suck, and were going to rebuild, and in that case, if you can get a haul like that for a guy you take it.

The ****ing Raiders should own the next two drafts.

I still think Chucky's crazy, but he's loading up #1's. If you're shit, you know you're shit, why the hell not? They're going to get good in a hurry

See, that's why I'm thinking a #2. Possibly a very late #1.

If you're like...oh, Green Bay for example. Rodgers is 35. Your window is very, very short. You want to take a chance on a first round flop or a guy that's shown to be an excellent pass rusher in the NFL. Only question is health; and if your docs feel good about the results of the back surgery, maybe you take that risk.

but I doubt a mid or high #1. Maybe in some package of picks or something.

You're not going to get a 1st for Ford. Mack performs like that year in and year out. Dee Ford has had one good year. Ford is likely worth a 2nd and a 4th or something similar.

No one has said (especially me) that he's worth MORE than mack.

But he's definitely worth a first.

Mack needed paid too.

He's was worth 2 1s. Ford is worth 1.

I think you're right more than likely.

I also kind of think maybe Veach might want to put his own stamp on this defense; and a chance to move an expensive piece for a high pick might fit his aggressive stance.

I still like signing Flowers and moving on from Houston and tag and trade Ford but that's just my big plan today.

If it's like Green Bay's #30 I could see it.

I'd punt Ford and restructure Houston if it was me

Exactly.

And Mack is a ****ing monster. A nightmare. Dee Ford is a goddamned cuddly kitten compared to Kahlil Mack.

Yeah. It's not going to be a top 15 pick. Later 1st imo

I would agree but I've seen it said that Houston's agent is not interested in restructuring.

If that's the case, you have to cut him I think.

Well what were their stats last year?

Ford was just as nightmarish but you wouldn't know

Well then we have to punt.

I don't know, IS he?

We lost what, three games in which we scored 40 points?

While I'm on my Trey Flowers kick-

how many games that we did lose was stopping the run a huge issue? Mightn't a guy like Flowers, who's a good run defender as well as a good but not elite pass rusher make your team better in both phases? You can't just run at him; and playing next to Jones you can't double him. Plus the #2 or so you pick up in the Ford trade? Doesn't that just make a lot of sense?

Again, look at the entirety of their careers. Mack gets 10+ sacks every year. He's automatic.

There's nothing about Dee Ford that is even remotely consistent.

He sure was worth a lot in the AFCCG. The only thing he did that shows up in the box score is line up offsides.

In his defense you just said he's had one good year and that year was last year. You haven't given him the chance to be consistent yet.

Shut up parker.

We're trying to sell a used pass rusher here

I expect 40 TD’s out of him with 5000 yards in 2019.

How many chances should we give him? He's 28 years old and hasn't ever been even slightly consistent. Maybe 30? 35?

And in the interest of full disclosure, by me saying these things, I'm admitting I was wrong about Dee Ford.

I was a big fan of the pick and defended him for a couple of years (before I stepped away from CP for a bit).

I was wrong about Dee Ford. He's not dependable. He's had too many injuries. The Chiefs need people they can count on week in and week out. That's not Dee Ford.

Yeah but you do see the logic failure in saying this was his first good year and he's not consistent, right? Because that is making my head hurt.

There is no logic failure.

He's 28 years old. He played 5 years of college ball (due to medical redshirt, of course) and 5 years of NFL ball.

He's never been consistent. He's had PLENTY of chances to demonstrate it and he's never done it.

If he was a rookie or 2nd year player, you'd have a point. He's not. He's closing in on 30 and a near decade of nothing but injuries and inconsistency.

And I can't ****ing believe we were that close at the afccc and didn't see each other face to face.

**** you parker

Where were you? Did you come to the tent city before the game?

And for what was spent on him, last years output should have been year two output, no injuries.

But since it's a "100% injury-guaranteed league", we'll just forget about all of that and give him a fat extension next year, amirite?!?!?

:drool:

But buehler totally ****ed me the same way and we text multiple times a week.


**** him and Timbone too

I was late.

I wish though. I brought my camaro and my ban hammer too

What did we spend on him?

Sigh. If this was his 'first good year' (which I disagree with) then he has not had a chance to prove he can be consistently good. If he goes to Indianapolis, for instance, and gets 18 sacks in their new 4-3 everyone here is going to kick themselves for letting him get away.

What was his first good year then?

GUYS

SAY IT WITH ME-TREY FLOWERS PLUS A #2 PICK FOR THE SAME MONEY.
CUT HOUSTON, SIGN A SAM AND A S WITH THE MONEY.

He played 4 seasons before this one. And 5 more in college. He was hurt in all but one of them. I don't know what more can be said. The only consistent thing in his entire career is his ability to get hurt.

And sure, if he goes to Indy and gets 18 sacks, people will be mad.

Likewise, they're going to be mad if they pass up a 2nd round pick, keep him, and his $15M cap hit is hurt half the season.

One of those is much more likely based on his past history. I know you don't want to accept that but it's a fact.

I tried but this alcohol really ****ed it up

So if we trade Ford then don't land Flowers what do you do?

You would have already signed Flowers; you can cut Houston right now, this minute, at 6:40pm on February the 19th and call up Flower's agent.

Then you shop Ford. Somebody'll bite on at least a #2.

Then you can call up any which one of the safeties not named Landon Collins (only because tag)that you like and KJ Wright and sign them with the money you would've had to pay Ford plus the $5m or so left over that you would've had to pay Houston.

and you have a 25 year old plus football player at a premium position locked in at a reasonable rate for a few years.

And come draft time, you have SO much more flexibility. You need a corner, but other than that, you can just generally draft defense.

Or you could just trade Ford for Collins and call it a day

Here's the thing...

If Ford goes to another team and has another good year, that doesn't affect the Chiefs at all. You can try to turn into opportunity lost but it really isn't. The Chiefs aren't going to miss out on a Super Bowl because they lost Dee Ford.

Dee Ford getting hurt while on the franchise tag absolutely has a big and very detrimental effect on the Chiefs. It very well could be the difference between a Super Bowl and none because keeping Dee Ford prevents you from acquiring other players.

If you let Dee Ford go, there are dozens of scenarios where the team gets along just fine without him.

If you keep him, there is really only one acceptable scenario - he repeats his 2018 performance. Anything less is a failure.

Look at it from an insurance, or betting, perspective. One is a MUCH better bet than the other, in terms of potential outcomes. It's not always about potential gains, sometimes it's about minimizing losses.

That would be cool; but I doubt the Giants would go for it.

I'm betting they see him as their defensive centerpiece.

They were shopping him last year.

At least that's what my guy said. And he usually knows

Why? Why on Earth would you do that? There isn't shit out there for edge rushing talent, and there's quite a few good to great safeties in a buyers market.

Agreed. So punt

What's your plan?

I think there’s a strong argument to be made that this team’s Super Bowl chances are much better with Ford than without. Cap number be damned.

there's a bunch of edge rushing talent. I don't know what you're talking about.

There are some good safeties; there's even a couple of great ones.

But I would say I honestly think, as of this day in time, Landon Collins is the best Safety in football. I say that in February, as Earl Thomas is about to turn 30 with a cast on his broken leg and Eric Berry hasn't played a meaningful snap in two years.

There are few guys that are difference makers; Collins is #1 on the healthy list of guys at safety that are. And he's 25.

This team would be in GREAT shape with the defense going forward with Trey Flowers at RDE and Landon Collins at S. he can play SS, he can play single high, he's a playmaker and gives you a ton of flexibility.

I mean, you want a top ten defense? That's a HELL OF A START.

Reduce the salaries of Houston and Berry, whether it be through restructure or outright cut.
Trade Ford if there's a #1 on the table. If not, keep him for WDE.
Sign one of Amos, Mathieu, or Thomas for S.
Sign veteran talent for the DL. Guys like McCoy and Griffen if the Vikings cut him.
Draft.

Agreed.
Collins is our huckleberry

Depends on what happens in that spot and with that money allocation.

Mathieu sucks

Trey Flowers is the premier Edge talent this year that's actually going to get to free agency. He's gotten 21 sacks in his career.

I heard those rumors...if that's true I would absolutely do that although i still don't see why the Giants would.

Trey Flowers and Landon Collins; both 25, would be studs for this team for a long time.

know how many Dee Ford had at 25 years old?

Well I actually have a "guy". And he would know if anyone would.

It's true

Don't know what you all see in Collins to make him THAT special.

oh **** it, I can't wait for you to guess.

HE HAD 15.5

:)

Seriously?

you haven't watched him play.

Yes. Seriously. PFF isn't the Bible by any means but they have him as the 39th ranked S.

I’m operating under the assumption that Houston is gone. So to not keep Ford, that leaves them needing to replace two stud players at a premium position in the matter of one offseason with no proven replacements on the roster.

I just think that’s asking an awful lot of any team. And yeah they could sign Flowers or whoever, but I’m not big on tying up a bunch of long term cash to these players. That’s the benefit of Houston or Ford. Neither will be here beyond 2019, so that money is going to open up right on cue as other massive extensions occur.

We need to identify players that take the ball away and keep them/recruit them.

That’s “moneyball” in today’s defense.

You can’t stop today’s offenses. The rules prohibit that. But you can take the ball away.

Forced fumbles
Recovered fumbles
Sacks
Interceptions
Batted passes
Passes defensed
Tackles for loss

Those are the categories that teams like ours need to emphasize because we score tons of points and that puts pressure on opposing offenses to keep pace.

Players that take the ball away help us win games.

ROFL. All pro at least once. Multiple pro bowler.

39th ranked safety?

Yeah... no

two guys, one position. I don't see any reasonable way around that. You could make an argument, and I am-that a better rounded player can man that spot that is less risk and an overall better asset for that money. Plus, you probably net a nice pick. I'm kind of Trey Flowers or bust at the moment.

Plan A-cut Houston, tag and trade Ford, sign Flowers, gain a #2, sign KJ Wright and oh, pick a FA safety you like.
Plan B-Cut Houston, tag and trade Ford to NY Giants for Landon Collins, sign Flowers, sign KJ Wright.
Plan C-Tag and trade Ford, play Houston at RDE and eat the $21 million, sign a FA safety and a SAM, draft Houston's replacement at RDE, hope Houston plays more than not this year.

Most likely, we'll tag and play Ford, cut Houston, sign a FA safety and a SAM and hopefully draft a RDE to play in Ford's spot next year when we do the whole dance again. And he'll probably play a lot this year too; as Ford rarely gets through a full season.

Flowers also played a hell of a lot more snaps. Both were 25 in their 3rd season of playing.

Ford played 1400 snaps his first 3 years playing.

Flowers played 2097 snaps his first 3 years playing.

Damn. I don't really even want Flowers that much now, regardless of what we do with the rest. He's going to be way overpaid for his production.

If we can find a way to flip Ford for a top pick while signing Collins and Flowers, Veach deserves a ****ing statue built of him in front of Arrowhead.

you just had a defensive scheme for 6 years that was based off bend dont break and highly dependent on the +/- in takeaways. And when they couldnt generate a turnover the entire scheme was useless.

In his 5th season, Ford passed Flower's sack total in his 4th season.

He's two years older, but only one extra year in the league. He has more snaps because-get this- HE'S BEEN HEALTHY. so much more than Ford that it took Ford a whole extra season to pass him in sack totals. I do not see how you could possibly look at that and see it any other way.

Crazy, I know. His sack totals are not all to his game though-he's also an excellent run defender, something Ford is NOT.

**** yeah. I'll be front row at the christening.

LOOK AT IT THOUGH. I don't know that the Giants would come off Collins. I really don't.
But Flowers would cost about what cutting Houston would save us. That's not a stretch. That's not Madden shit, that's real.

If you flip Ford for a #2 which is entirely possible, you have enough money to sign a top safety and a pretty good SAM.

It's a do-able plan.

I’m not in on Flowers. He’s probably going to get what, 5 years/$85-100M on the open market? No way I sink that kind of investment into a guy who I don’t even know if he can play up to that in my defensive system yet. Let’s give the big contracts like that to home grown stars such as Jones. We can draft someone younger to earn such a contract in the future if they are capable.