You are making a asinine ridiculous statements....reminds me of your Haley crap

I've given you two possibilities in proposed trades. They're not what will happen, but they are solutions to your problem nonetheless.

Ever one know in the NBA it's best to have a bunch of jobbers over star power!

From what I recall, you recommended five+ million contract guys.

The big three will command 60mil or more. Waiters will command five. Thompson or Varejao will command about 8. Your starting lineup alone is going to be way above the cap. Where is this money going to come from? Add another contract and you're at 78 mil. And that's assuming you don't keep any bench beyond a 6th man.

The original big 3 took 10 mil in payouts to afford help. The cavs are going to pay three guys max contracts. It's feasible. But it's going to be much harder than you give it credit for.

Jobbers?

My recommendation was to keep Wiggins and Bennett and use the cap savings for a marquee veteran. I gave several examples of players who could be had without giving those guys up. Of course I don't think love for those guys is even close to a fair trade.

Wiggins is already a 5+/year player. Bennett is close to that. Trade them both, ask for cash in return plus one of the players I suggested, and you're good to go.

Like you said, you're giving up the two most recent #1 overall picks plus two more 1st rounders for one player who will command a huge salary. You can ask for some give back from the Wolves. That's how negotiations work.

How is that give back going to affect the cavs' 2015-2016 cap number?

You don't need three All-Stars to win. Two it just fine, LeBron has almost won by himself multiple times. Waiters and Wiggins both have All-Star potential. They are setting just fine without trading a bunch of assets crippling the future.

If we didn't have Irving I could more than see your point, but LeBron isn't alone in Cleveland anymore. This roster is 10x more talented than the one LeBron left that had the best record in the NBA and made the Championship. Should be better coached, oh and even LeBron has gotten better since then.

I disagree on Waiters potential. Wiggins has huge upside but he is an unknown. Same with Bennett. But you are right that even without those guys, the cavs are a much better team that LeBron first time in Cleveland.

More importantly, this isn't about Wiggins and Bennett for love straight up. Cavs would have cap flexibility to make big another big free agent move in addition to keeping Wiggins and Bennett.

Even if everything goes as you say it will, they will still lose to the Spurs in the Finals.

Bulls are in the mix for Love again. If they give up Gibson,Butler and someone else.

Good. I'm a Cleveland fan, but screw Cleveland Fan. You don't want love and perhaps Chicago can help you with that. I would never cheer against the cavs, but this forum strongly makes me question that position.

Why in the hell would Bulls need Love with Noah and Gasol?

Because they were last in the league in scoring? And first in the league in opponents' scoring?

The Bulls getting involved in this trade completely ****s over Cleveland. Now you absolutely have to do whatever it takes to secure Love. Because if he goes to Chicago... you might not make it out of the eastern conference.

Because that frontline is badass. They might be even better passers than the spurs.

Don't know, but they're talking about it now

Shit or get off the pot, Cleveland

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...ove-trade-push

Don't know why the Bulls are even trying. I've heard it here that Love is only willing to sign a long term deal with Cleveland.

Denver Nuggets have been in this, too.

But RustShack is always right! Cleveland holds all the cards! Minnesota is weak! They should trade Love for Anthony Bennett straight up no questions asked and be THANKFUL for the ****ing opportunity!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources...185536749.html

Wonder what Denver is offering? Fairied, Gallinari, Chandler?

lol no.

Report: Cavaliers trying to acquire other players to put in Kevin Love trade
Kurt Helin Jul 22, 2014, 3:38 PM EDT

The deal reportedly on the table from Cleveland for Kevin Love is No. 1 picks Andrew Wiggins, last year’s No. 1 pick Anthony Bennett (who looked good at Summer League) plus one or two first round picks.

If that was enough the deal would be done. Minnesota is trying to leverage Cleveland with Chicago and maybe Golden State (although the Warriors are not playing along) to get as much as they can.

Cleveland is looking around the league to get more parts to put in a deal, specifically non-guaranteed contracts, reports Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo Sports.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are pursuing trade components to include as part of a package with Minnesota to acquire All-Star forward Kevin Love, league sources told Yahoo Sports….

The Cavaliers are working to obtain non-guaranteed contracts that could be a part of a package for Love, allowing the Cavaliers to deliver players that could be released immediately upon completion of a deal, sources said. This would give Minnesota salary-cap relief as part of a trade.

Those other pieces are likely to add Kevin Martin to the deal. Minnesota has wanted to dump Martin and his salary (three years, $21.3 million left on his deal) in any Love deal, and frankly Martin could provide some shooting the Cavs could use. To balance that out the Cavs need some non-guaranteed contracts.

Cleveland is apparently confident that they are close and can land a deal. That is as much about the lack of other great options out there for Minnesota — Chicago wants in with a deal based around Taj Gibson, and Denver is still out there as the best of the bad options for Minnesota (and that deal will be there, no reason for Minnesota to rush and take any of them).

The other part of all this: Will Kevin Love opt in for Cleveland? It’s what Chris Paul did for the Clippers, it is not something Dwight Howard did for the Lakers. Yes, Love reportedly would want to stay with LeBron in Cleveland, but situations and attitudes can change and the Cavs would be wise to get that one extra year guaranteed (plus Love could become a free agent in 2016 when the max salary will skyrocket with the new TV deal).

Still, it feels like a deal with get done with the Cavaliers. Eventually.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Signals emanating from Cleveland are clear that Cavs think they&#39;ll ultimately construct a trade framework Minnesota will accept for KLove</p>&mdash; Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/statuses/491663652454686720">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...in-love-trade/

This is why Cleveland can't have nice things. Love and Kevin Martin. And Bennett, Wiggins + pick isn't enough? They must be ****ing joking. Two guys who are atrocious at defense worth a combined $27M to add to a horrible defensive team.

Let's say this straight out... if Bennett + Wiggins are both good, this is a bad trade. If one of them becomes excellent, it's a horrible trade. If both become excellent or one becomes an all star, this is highway robbery. Knowing Cleveland, this is most definitely going to happen if they're traded.

Cleveland probably doesn't have the stones to call Minnesota's bluff. They could trade Bennett + waiters + a first rounder for a ton of guys that would help their team and still clear space for Love in the offseason.

I have no idea why Love would ever opt in for any other team - not before being a true free agent and seeing what the landscape looks like.

Absolutely. None of this makes sense. All of a sudden, a day after it's announced Wiggins is close to signing, all these teams enter the mix completely out of nowhere? Hmm....

The Cavs' best move is to wait until midseason and at least see what they have in Wiggins and Bennett. Period.

HE'S NOT GOING TO FREE AGENCY! **** YOU! WE'RE TRADING HIM AND GETTING SHIT BACK!

CLEVELAND ISN'T SIGNING HIM! CONTRARY TO HOW THE LAST 4 DRAFTS HAVE GONE, THE UNIVERSE DOESN'T EXIST SOLELY TO MAKE SHIT WORK FOR THE ****ING CAVALIERS

YOU BUY NOW OR GET RAPED!

:# :# :#

But the Cavs can't trade Wiggins until 30 days.

Wiggins hasn't signed yet. They are trying to sign him so they can finalize other deals. Hence, why this is coming to a head.

Well that would be stupid.

Why?

Worst case scenario, the Cavs lose out on Love. Oh well. They keep three first round picks, groom two #1 picks, and have a ton of cap space to bring in a very good veteran. Bennett + Wiggins + a very good veteran is nothing to complain about. And they'd still have great trade bait in Waiters, Bennett, Thompson, and three first rounders. Why are people stuck on the idea that Love is the only very good veteran the Cavs can bring in the next 2 years?

Best case scenario, the Wolves are bluffing and the Cavs see what they have in Wiggins and Bennett first. If they both suck, then give Minnesota a huge haul. If they both combine to be very good, that motivates them to keep them or increases their trade value.

Because Gasol should only really be playing 25-28 minutes per game at this point. Love and Noah get starter minutes, Gasol gets most of the rest with Mirotic filling in the gaps. That's assuming Gasol is ok coming off the bench. Bulls would have issues on the wing if they let Butler go, but Tony Snell looked good in summer league. You just need him to defend and hit a few open looks.

3 first round picks? Are you saying they'd have to trade 3 future first rounders with Wiggins and Bennett? That's insane. Wiggins/Bennett and maybe 1 first round pick. And with LeBron, that pick is 26-31 in the first round, so really, what value does that even bring? You'd rather have a high 2nd than a late 1st.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Utah's trading John Lucas, Malcolm Thomas and Erik Murphy to Cleveland for Carrick Felix, future 2nd and $1M, sources tell Yahoo.</p>&mdash; Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/491716823331528705">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>In Murphy, Lucas and Thomas, Cavs get three non-guaranteed contracts to facilitate trades -- or a trade. Another step toward Kevin Love.</p>&mdash; Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/491718242134929408">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>This is the smaller deal Cavaliers have been pursuing in recent days to try and roll into the larger scope deal with Minnesota.</p>&mdash; Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) <a href="https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/491718773859438592">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
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No, I'm pointing out that as of right now, they have three first round picks which make very good bargaining chips for a sign and trade if they chose to not go the Love route. They also have 3 top 5 picks in Waiters, Thompson, and Bennett.

So...

Wiggins, Bennett, scrubs and a pair of 1st round picks for Love? That gets the money in range, but is there more as part of Minnesota forcing Martin into the package?

With that trade KevB just posted it is only a matter of time for the Love trade to go down IMO.

And the fact that those 3 top five picks produced superstars such as Waiters/Thompson/Bennett speak to just how suspect first round picks can be when building a roster. There's absolutely no given that any first round pick the next three years actually enhances your team around LeBron. When you have guys like LeBron and Irving, you leverage the promise of first round picks to bad teams and get back proven vets that can actually help you win in the playoffs. I'd suggest Love is the best alternative in the short term. Maybe something else comes along in the next two years, but a bird in the hand....

KevB, I don't care about the three first rounders except that they are valuable trading chips. The Cavs still have options especially with the extra cap dollars they'll have by not signing yet another max contract guy. I don't see why the trade has to be Love.

I can't be the only one who thinks Love is somewhat overrated and not worthy of this much hype over being traded, right?

Lol. He's better than your power forward. If you want to talk about overrated.

Nope. If you want to talk about overrated, we can start with never making the playoffs in your entire career to date, padding your rebounding stats by fighting your own teammates for boards and getting into rebounding position early instead of contesting shots, being one of the league's worst rim protectors (allowing 57% FG at the rim, only Tristan Thompson and Thad Young were worse), and still being labeled "the best PF in the league." I'll take Anthony Davis, Griffin, Aldridge, Duncan, or Dirk over Love any day of the week.

Oh, I don't consider him the best. I'd take Paul millsap over him. I'm just saying. Love also can't defend. But live is a great passer, he is a great shooter, and with LeBron and kyrie driving that makes love deadly.

These are things I'm concerned about too.

I think he's absolutely worth max contract. But not on a team like Cleveland right now that has two other max contracts, no defense (other than LBJ), and no stable rim protectors.

The Cavs might be able to get by with Love's poor rim protection if not for Kyrie's own issues on the defensive end. If they trade the farm for Love, they're stuck with a Big Three in which only one of the stars plays defense, and not much else. That's why I'm not crazy about this trade for Cleveland, and if I were a Cavs fan, I'd rather take my chances with Wiggins (who at least has shown the willingness to defend).

I'm not trying to totally shit on Love, and he is a good passer and scorer, but there are just other players at his position who can do that at a high level while still providing better rim protection.

As a Cavs fan, trust me, for some reason you're the only one that can see this. Let's also not forget that Wiggins costs only $5.5M. Love will cost $20M. The Cavs can basically get Wiggins and a $15M player at the same cap charge as Love. For some reason, people keep treating this like it's a Wiggins/Bennett for Love trade straight up.

NBA has to get rid of the matching salaries stipulation in trades. Its stupid as **** and makes making trades unnecessarily complex and drawn out.
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If they both suck, what haul would Cleveland have left?

Adding the 28th pick in the first round next year to Wiggins/Bennett just isn't that much more value. Many teams try to trade out of the late first round because you're locked into a guaranteed contract taking a guy like Josh Huestis.

There's an argument for going the direction you suggest, I don't think it's a crazy path. But when you already have LeBron and Irving, why risk an unknown (Wiggins/Bennett) when you know you're getting major production from Love. Fill in with a cheap rim protector (a guy like Chris Anderson was for the Heat), sign a Thabo, Brandon Rush, etc. for cheap that can give you some wing defense and rock and roll. If you have Irving and Wiggins signed to long term deals at today's max, in two years that looks a lot better. LeBron gets more expensive, but you have defined production with predictable cost. A good GM continues to pull the right strings to put competent players around them. That's why pro GM's get paid 7 figures in many cases.

I'd open up the talks to Kyrie Irving o:-)


Seriously though. They shouldn't even have him. Kyrie Irving should be a Timberwolf right the **** now. The only reason why he's not is because the NBA cluelessly uses the worst possible scheme to determine draft order. And if I thought tinfoil was fashionable, I'd go so far as to claim that it's ****ing rigged to shit.

It wasn't that long ago that teams were selling top 10 picks for cash.

I'm not a tin foil wearer but that shit is fuking rigged.

Just look at Cleveland's luck in it starting with Lebron. Then Lebron sign and trade, how many were 1 overall? Ping pong balls...
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If they suck in the first half of the season, their stock might drop, but Wiggins is still a huge get because of upside. They still have Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and 3 first round picks. You also have preseason to get a sense for if they fit your system or not.

They are two #1 picks. The chances of both of them flat-out sucking is pretty unlikely. And again, you don't have to trade for Love. You can still shop around for other players who won't require a superstar haul.

Well, thank you for that. At least you acknowledge what I'm saying isn't crazy talk even if you don't agree.

I think Love is easily the best option... for 2 years. Unless Lebron takes a paycut and that could honestly happen. If not, three max contracts is basically the entire salary cap. I just don't see rounding out the roster with no money to be nearly as simple as people on here make it out to be. And I don't see keeping Wiggins and Bennett to be nearly as risky as people make it out to be, considering you can use those cap savings to buy a pricey free agent.

I don't even want the bulls to get love...

our front court of Noah, Gibson, Gasol and Mirotic as absolutely sick and Doug McDermott has been tearing up (at least offensively) the summer league.

A healthy Rose and I still think the Bulls are the frontrunner this year no matter what the Cavs do (in the East)

A lot of people here just go by what the national media tells them.

but rustshack goes by all of those scouting combines he attends...and the 3 Cavs games he's watched the past 4 years LeBron has been gone

Of course it's rigged. No other way to explain Anthony Davis to the pelicans. They needed an owner.

I watched nearly every wolves game that past two years. How about you?

or Rose to the Bulls

or LeBron to the Cavs back in the day

I tend to agree. I think the lottery is fixed certain years to benefit the league. No doubt in my mind, really.

The Rose one really sticks out to me.

Even if the Cavs get Love, the Bulls are the favorite in the East.

The Cavs are too young. Lebron can carry a team, but this team isn't ready and I know that.

If it wasn't a tool to used to get certain players to certain places they would have eliminated it. Just do what the MLB and NFL do and go by record.

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How I feel reading every one of your posts.

Complete and utter nonsense, this is.

I somewhat disagree. Noah carried the Bulls by himself. Mirotic is going to be very good right away. Doug McDermott can absolutely contribute right away. We're only going to play Pau 25 minutes.

If Rose is healthy and even 80% of what MVP Rose was...

There is no reason why the Bulls couldn't be at least considered as favorites in the East.

The Cavs will win over 60 games with Kevin Love on the roster in the East. I have no idea how the Bulls will match such a record unless Derrick Rose is healthy and playing at a high level for a full season. Do you seriously think he will be?

if not now, then never

so as a Bulls fan I can only hope

I'm afraid hope doesn't beat LeBron James, Kevin Love, and Kyrie Irving on the same roster.

but I love the roster they have assembled

I can't think of a better frontcourt than Noah, Gasol, Gibson, Mirotic with McDermott as a specialty player...

and you have two legit all NBA guys if Rose is healthy (Noah)

and then you have Jimmy Butler...who is a minutes guy who plays great defense.

and then two good veterans in Hinrich and Dunleavy.

they just don't have LeBron, lol

I'd take 82 games of Noah over 82 games of Love, though

maybe not in the playoffs...but we'll have to see

If Rose is healthy, I think the Bulls, at the very least, win more regular season games than the Cavs

Irving, LeBron and Love will have to learn how to play with one another...and I'm sure Dave Blatt is great and all but he's got to prove he can coach...

and the Bulls have Tom Thibodeau ...

Guys, the Cavs have a rim protector. His name is Brendan Haywood.

As would I, but that doesn't mean I'm crazy enough to think the Bulls are the favorite in the East over LeBron James.

and I prefaced it by saying IF Rose returned healthy

Flags fly forever. If you think you have a chance to win a ring with Love the next two seasons, you pull the trigger. In year 3 the cap goes up and Love/Irving extensions look pretty good if they're locked in another 2-3 at those rates. You sign Okafor to a 1-2 year deal if he's healthy. Bring on a Francisco Garcia to help on the perimeter. Take a flyer on Ekpe Udoh as another potential rim protector (have to roll the dice on back end of bench).

A few pages ago you admitted to going by tweets to judge how Wiggins and Bennett were doing in summer league.

You should really stop posting and save yourself the embarrassment.

BTW, if not to get ready to trade for Love, why did the Cavs make the trade they made today?

I'm not as big on Love as some, but he's more proven than Wiggins. I personally think Cleveland may be the favorite in the East either way because I'm not sold on Rose being healthy. I can say I'm pretty damn sure that Cleveland will end up trading Wiggins for Love if they can because it's what LeBron wants. Who can blame them?

We shouldn't trade Michael Beasley to get Chris Bosh /Heat fans like zilla and rustshack in 2010 (said by no one)

I thought the Cavs were INSANE to take Irving over Beasley LMAO

Beasley was in Derrick Rose's class.

hahahaha that's what I meant

I remember wanting Beasley on the Bulls

omg

Really? You're going to compare Beasley to Wiggins? The Heat knew what they had in Beasley when they traded him and that includes a whole host of character issues. Not only are the Cavs trading a player with a whole shitload more trade value than Beasley, they're trading another #1 pick and a first rounder on top of that.

And again, this was never about Wiggins / Bennett for Love straight up. This is Wiggins + Bennett + cap savings to bring in another very good player.