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gblowfish 01-17-2014 02:51 PM

Well, at least they got Hoz settled for the time being. Gotta get Mr. Holland next.

alnorth 01-17-2014 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianfo (Post 10375522)
Bonifacio gets 3.5 million avoiding arbitration.

slightly higher than expected (3.3).

Holland is the most expensive one still outstanding, mlbtraderumors predicted 4.9 for him.

duncan_idaho 01-17-2014 03:02 PM

Nice to see them avoiding arbitration in some of these cases.

Hochevar amount sucks, but like al said... he was getting about that one way or another.

It's kind of ludicrous that a team with a payroll of $92 million or so is going to spend 17 percent of that payroll on its closer, an 8th inning guy that still can't be 100 percent trusted with men on base (Hochevar), and a 6th/7th inning/swing starter type (Wade Davis).

They really should look at moving one of Hochevar or Davis for a piece that can help either this year or somewhere down the road. The bullpen could withstand losing either of those guys without missing a beat, IMO.

Deberg_1990 01-17-2014 03:45 PM

The Royals just can't seem to quit Hochevar. He was better the 2nd half of last year though. hopefully they are not thinking of moving him back to starter?
Posted via Mobile Device

BlackHelicopters 01-17-2014 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 10375620)
The Royals just can't seem to quit Hochevar. He was better the 2nd half of last year though. hopefully they are not thinking of moving him back to starter?
Posted via Mobile Device

Blasphemy!

duncan_idaho 01-17-2014 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 10375620)
The Royals just can't seem to quit Hochevar. He was better the 2nd half of last year though. hopefully they are not thinking of moving him back to starter?
Posted via Mobile Device

Hopefully not, but I'm sure they'll consider it in Spring Training.

It doesn't make much sense for a sub-$100 million payroll team that's up against its budget to spend $15 million on 3 RH relief pitchers.

If there's a team/front office/manager stubborn enough to believe Hochevar deserves another shot as a starter, despite all the eyeball evidence to the contrary, it's this one.

Fansy the Famous Bard 01-17-2014 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 10375488)
Thats just how arbitration works. As much as I despised Hoch (I wanted his ass non-tendered last year) he was a dominating setup man last season, and that has value. At this point we probably have to keep him if we want to have a decent chance in 2014 with this rotation.

I don't know if he would have gotten 5 million in free agency, probably he would, but if we didn't want to pay what arbitration was going to force on us, then our only alternative was to cut him.

5 million for Hochevar, who is still a liability, is unacceptable. For whatever reason, there is a love affair with him by GMDM or someone in the front office\coaching staff. His performance last season was NOT the norm - It was the exception. Did no one pay attention to the Career year then signing of Frenchy? It's a bad deal. 5 million for a reliever that has never performed until last year, then spend that type of money again with a limited payroll and a bunch of money already tied up in your bullpen? You non-tender him or trade him... That would be the good baseball move.

But he has a little value (certainly not 5 mil for a small market team as a reliever) and is one of the boys, so he's given the golden boot to drink from.

I can't agree with this at all... Hochevar will most assuredly not put up the same numbers as last year. If he does, then you start having a track record for paying him a few million dollars... but 5 mil as a lottery ticket\reclamation project is not good baseball business.

alnorth 01-17-2014 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 10375545)
Nice to see them avoiding arbitration in some of these cases.

DM may be the most arbitration-averse GM in baseball. He has never allowed it to go to the arbitrator, he always settles with the player.

BlackHelicopters 01-17-2014 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 10375638)
5 million for Hochevar, who is still a liability, is unacceptable. For whatever reason, there is a love affair with him by GMDM or someone in the front office\coaching staff. His performance last season was NOT the norm - It was the exception. Did no one pay attention to the Career year then signing of Frenchy? It's a bad deal. 5 million for a reliever that has never performed until last year, then spend that type of money again with a limited payroll and a bunch of money already tied up in your bullpen? You non-tender him or trade him... That would be the good baseball move.

But he has a little value (certainly not 5 mil for a small market team as a reliever) and is one of the boys, so he's given the golden boot to drink from.

I can't agree with this at all... Hochevar will most assuredly not put up the same numbers as last year. If he does, then you start having a track record for paying him a few million dollars... but 5 mil as a lottery ticket\reclamation project is not good baseball business.


Hoch must have really good pictures of GMDM with a farm animal.

duncan_idaho 01-17-2014 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 10375638)
5 million for Hochevar, who is still a liability, is unacceptable. For whatever reason, there is a love affair with him by GMDM or someone in the front office\coaching staff. His performance last season was NOT the norm - It was the exception. Did no one pay attention to the Career year then signing of Frenchy? It's a bad deal. 5 million for a reliever that has never performed until last year, then spend that type of money again with a limited payroll and a bunch of money already tied up in your bullpen? You non-tender him or trade him... That would be the good baseball move.

But he has a little value (certainly not 5 mil for a small market team as a reliever) and is one of the boys, so he's given the golden boot to drink from.

I can't agree with this at all... Hochevar will most assuredly not put up the same numbers as last year. If he does, then you start having a track record for paying him a few million dollars... but 5 mil as a lottery ticket\reclamation project is not good baseball business.

I was upset they didn't non-tender him a year ago. That would have been a good time to walk away from him. But this year? You can't non-tender a guy coming off that season and be taken seriously. By tendering him a contract and coming to an agreement, Hochevar is at least somebody they can get some value out of. This continues the clock to try to trade him, which I agree completely is what they should be doing.

They should be trying like crazy to trade him or Davis, though. Likely Hochevar. Small market teams can't pay that type of salary to a setup man who still isn't trustworthy with inherited runners.

alnorth 01-17-2014 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 10375638)
5 million for Hochevar, who is still a liability, is unacceptable. For whatever reason, there is a love affair with him by GMDM or someone in the front office\coaching staff. His performance last season was NOT the norm - It was the exception. Did no one pay attention to the Career year then signing of Frenchy? It's a bad deal. 5 million for a reliever that has never performed until last year, then spend that type of money again with a limited payroll and a bunch of money already tied up in your bullpen? You non-tender him or trade him... That would be the good baseball move.

But he has a little value (certainly not 5 mil for a small market team as a reliever) and is one of the boys, so he's given the golden boot to drink from.

I can't agree with this at all... Hochevar will most assuredly not put up the same numbers as last year. If he does, then you start having a track record for paying him a few million dollars... but 5 mil as a lottery ticket\reclamation project is not good baseball business.

Well first, regarding regression and him being a liability: he isn't. Not unless he starts again. Last season was the first season as a relief pitcher, and his numbers were terrific. Is he that good as a reliever? Probably not, but it would take one hell of a regression for him to be a bad relief pitcher.

5 million is high for a reliever who only played the setup role for one season, so it may have been difficult to trade him, but if there's any chance he could come close to 2013 then we do need him so cutting him doesn't make sense either. I'm fine with just reluctantly paying what the arbitrator probably would have given him.

Fansy the Famous Bard 01-17-2014 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 10375667)
I was upset they didn't non-tender him a year ago. That would have been a good time to walk away from him. But this year? You can't non-tender a guy coming off that season and be taken seriously. By tendering him a contract and coming to an agreement, Hochevar is at least somebody they can get some value out of. This continues the clock to try to trade him, which I agree completely is what they should be doing.

They should be trying like crazy to trade him or Davis, though. Likely Hochevar. Small market teams can't pay that type of salary to a setup man who still isn't trustworthy with inherited runners.

I wanted to non-tender him last year too, and I still think it needs to be done. The track record, the small market franchise, the current roster, and the position he plays.

Yes he had a good year, but 5 mil for a reliever with two-thirds of a season with success (As a middle reliever mind you) out of 5 is NOT good business. No matter which way you try to look at it.

BlackHelicopters 01-17-2014 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 10375675)
I wanted to non-tender him last year too, and I still think it needs to be done. The track record, the small market franchise, the current roster, and the position he plays.

Yes he had a good year, but 5 mil for a reliever with two-thirds of a season with success (As a middle reliever mind you) out of 5 is NOT good business. No matter which way you try to look at it.

It is not good baseball business. Maybe there is more to this love affair than we know. Maybe GMDM is doing all he can to trade Hoch, and has had no nibbles. I don't know?

duncan_idaho 01-17-2014 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke (Post 10375675)
I wanted to non-tender him last year too, and I still think it needs to be done. The track record, the small market franchise, the current roster, and the position he plays.

Yes he had a good year, but 5 mil for a reliever with two-thirds of a season with success (As a middle reliever mind you) out of 5 is NOT good business. No matter which way you try to look at it.

I think they would have a real perception problem if they non-tendered a guy coming off that season. It goes beyond just payroll this year... agents and the union would really squawk about it... they wouldn't have a case for a grievance or anything, but the Royals would pay for it several times over down the road (in other salary negotiations). Scott Boras doesn't forget things like that.

He still has a trade market, IMO, if they're trying that. Considering that average joe closers like Jim Johnson are making $10 million/year, Hochevar would have some appeal to a team in need of a closer on a budget. Not sure that team exists, but you probably can find it between now and the trade deadline.

alnorth 01-17-2014 04:29 PM

Also keep in mind he's a free agent in 2015, he'll get whatever his market value is then. We're not committed to him beyond this season, and he's not keeping us from signing some huge free agent SP, so this argument about small markets can't afford to pay relievers this much money just doesn't apply in this case. I also don't see how any team is going to trade us something we need in 2014 for Hoch.


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